new 951 di engine needs to be primed/bleed but HOW?

[ricardo1]

Like the tittle says It's that time of the year and have everything hooked on the ski but the oil lines going from the pump to the front of the engine have nothing in them my question is how do I bleed and or prime the oil supply? The engine is a new rebuild one from SES that I have had laying around but due to the cold weather I didn't get going.
Thanks in advance

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I would squirt a good amount of oil in both throttle bodies to provide a temporary source of lube and adjust or manually hold the oil pump lever 2/3 open or more at startup while the oiling system primes. I would want to see a steady amount of oil smoke in the exhaust, telling me the oiling system is functioning. After this, I would readjust the oil pump lever back to factory spec once I'm convinced the oil system is operating.

The only danger of a little too much oil is, plug fouling can occur and you may kill a few mosquitoes. Way too much oil (as in a 1/4 quart) can cause hydrolocking, so don't pour a ton in there, one ounce each should be plenty.

 

[kicker]

Be sure to bleed the supply line prior to starting. Back off the bleed screw on the front of the pump. Oil should fill the supply liine and start dripping from the bleed screw/bolt.

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[ricardo1]

I did what both of you guys suggested, the ski started instantly as I was holding the oil pump almost wide open I noticed little smoke but not really much so I turned the ski off any suggestions?

 

[68ragtop]

When the engine was rebuilt, there should have been plenty of oil in there for it to run long enough to purge the air out of the lines & then some. These engines are assembled with more oil than what they run with in normal operating conditions. It wouldn't hurt to call SES to confirm this. With the ski idling & the oil pump held 3/4- full open, you should see oil pulsing through the injection lines within 5-10 seconds of run time. Provided your on the hose for cooling & your c clip is pulled from your carbon seal, you should be able to let it run long enough to get the oil through the lines. It makes a huge difference holding the oil pump wide open like Sportster mentioned above.

 

[ricardo1]

He told me when we talked but I still went ahead and added some extra oil just for the peace of mind, I bleed the pump and when the ski started the lines got filled with oil almost instantly my concern is that I didn't see smoke within 10 seconds so I shut the ski off.

 

[rhonus]

Hi

I have a similar situation after a rebuild. On reading about it a lot of suggestions have been to premix the fuel 40:1 ratio and bleed the oil pump as you said. I intend to do it with the plugs out turning the motor over by using the starter motor until I get rid of the air lock. Also dropping some oil or WD40 in the cylinders for lubrication now and again. The person who suggest this implied that at 40:1 it would have enough oil in the fuel to run with out affecting the engine (We don't want to cease it before we get it back in the water). Stating that the reservoir should be marked so you can check it is using oil when running before you stop premixing your fuel.
rhonus

 

[68ragtop]

Please don't lubricate a new engine with WD40. The two oils are not even in the same zip code of similarity. making the starter spin the engine over to prime the oil pump lines is only going to destroy your starter & wear down your battery. No need to do that IMO. Running a ski across a like with no injection oil will destroy it. Letting it idle on the trailer to prime a well pre oiled engine is just fine.
I understand the fear, but think about how small amount of oil is added at idle & how much is already in the case halves.

Back to the smoke thing. I just rebuilt a 951 DI, & used a lot of injection oil during the rebuild. a couple ounces in the case bottoms, crank & pin bearings, rings, etc. My pump is primed & injecting. It really doesn't smoke all that much as compared to my carb'd skis. Could be something with the DI design? Not sure. I can smell the oil in the exhaust, but not much smoke in the shop.

 

[ricardo1]

I poured some oil in each cylinder before the start up and I could see some smoke in the air but very minimal while I was holding the pump open, maybe having an older gsi that used to SMOKE a lot during startup/ idle so maybe Im looking for something close to all that's smoke lol.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Hi

I have a similar situation after a rebuild. On reading about it a lot of suggestions have been to premix the fuel 40:1 ratio and bleed the oil pump as you said. I intend to do it with the plugs out turning the motor over by using the starter motor until I get rid of the air lock. Also dropping some oil or WD40 in the cylinders for lubrication now and again. The person who suggest this implied that at 40:1 it would have enough oil in the fuel to run with out affecting the engine (We don't want to cease it before we get it back in the water). Stating that the reservoir should be marked so you can check it is using oil when running before you stop premixing your fuel.
rhonus

Pre-mixing is fine only if your motor is carbureted, this method won't work as intended for an injected ski for various reasons. I'd use the 2-stroke oil as opposed to WD-40, I don't recall ever spraying WD-40 into an engine in preference over 2-stroke oil which was designed for the purpose?

 

[ricardo1]

I'm worried about not really seeing smoke and also having the maintenance light when I insert the key. Should I be worried or just take it to the lake for break in?

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Back to the smoke thing. I just rebuilt a 951 DI, & used a lot of injection oil during the rebuild. It really doesn't smoke all that much as compared to my carb'd skis. I can smell the oil in the exhaust, but not much smoke in the shop.

Similar description to my carbed 951 using the factory injection, I can smell oil in the exhaust but rarely do I actually see smoke unless I add oil through the air intakes. Actually, I have "T" plumbed a manual oil primer between the accelerator pump and accelerator injection nozzles to facilitate storage fogging, I used some tubing and a small bulb primer device from a weedeater.

About six pumps on that thing at idle gives me some smoke just before shutdown, the bottle it's connected to is filled with mineral 2-stroke oil.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I'm worried about not really seeing smoke and also having the maintenance light when I insert the key. Should I be worried or just take it to the lake for break in?

By watching for air bubbles and holding the pump lever open, were you able to confirm oil was moving up from the oil pump through the oil lines going to the air pump and throttle bodies? This movement of fluid will tell you if the oil pump is operating or if not maybe you forgot to install the oil pump drive sleeve?

Don't forget to check the oil pump lever adjustment carefully to make sure it's set properly and moving with throttle actuation.

 

[ricardo1]

Yes, the oil lines primed immediately after I bleed the pump and the engine turned over. As soon as the throttle is touched the oil pump arm moves.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Sounds like you're almost ready, have the injectors been replaced or professionally cleaned? The reason I ask is b/c unless you know or found why the previous engine failed early the fuel injectors may have been the cause if one was partially clogged or leaking and the fuel mixture was incorrect.

The maint light you see when inserting key could be a sensor disconnected somewhere, like exhaust temp sensor for instance. Check again, I would want to understand the cause before running. Also a functioning buzzer will help to warn of some problems like overheating.

If the engine isn't running properly during your tests or some problems occur, it's always best to stop and investigate the reason thoroughly before proceeding.

If everything is okay to your satisfaction, go enjoy your new cool ski!

 

[ricardo1]

To be honest I didn't, the last failure was a seized crank bearing on the front of the engine It looked lean to me when I pulled the engine apart but the other piston looked fine.

 

[ricardo1]

I just read the second and third part on your reply my bad, I agree with you, the buzzer works just fine it's loud and when I get home later today I will look for an unplugged sensor, any way to pull a code kind of like how you do with an OBD1 car?

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

The newer skis will display a code but unfortunately the DI's don't as far as I know, a BUDS system is necessary.

You can narrow the problem down somewhat by process of elimination since the code is generated immediately on power up, this limits the possibilities. A breakdown of these faults describing when they occur and the response taken by the MPEM is included in the service manual, along with how to test most of the sensors. Some codes will allow only idle speed and others will limit RPM's to 4000, as an example, I believe the exhaust temp fault limits RPM to 4000 while some charging system faults limit RPM to idle only.

If you find your fault doesn't limit RPM, then this will eliminate many of the other possibilities.

 

[ricardo1]

I guess after checking the sensors and stuff I need to take the ski and water test huh?

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[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I guess after checking the sensors and stuff I need to take the ski and water test huh?

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I think you're right, it won't be much fun if there's still a problem and won't rev past 4000 RPM though.

 

[ricardo1]

The engine has no time on it, wouldn't reving it to 4000 harm it?

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[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

The engine has no time on it, wouldn't reving it to 4000 harm it?

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I think it should be okay, it probably came with break-in instructions and I'd follow them as closely as possible but a brief run to the break-in limits should be done to make sure there are no performance issues lurking. 4000 RPM is just slightly over half of the capability of the rotating assembly and doesn't seem excessive to me, my carbed 951 idles at 3000 on the trailer so I'd probably already have exceeded 4000 RPM just adjusting the carb idle screw.

 

[ricardo1]

He said to not give it too much gas the first couple hrs, then little more gas next time and just to ride the ski normal but gently not balls to the wall lol.

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[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Yes that's reasonable, I would avoid WOT for the first tank and probably not exceed 6200 RPM, ride about 5200 RPM if you care to go that fast but it's important to change speed up and down, not just ride at one single speed. My boat seems to cruise most efficiently around 5000RPM but it's heavier and of course slower so this RPM might be faster than you want to ride, hard to say.

I think if you can rev it to 4500~5000RPM on the trailer for a second or two, you can test the MPEM limp mode. If the MPEM won't allow over 4000 then the problem needs to be fixed right away before running more or taking the ski for water testing. The reason he MPEM limits the RPM in limp mode is b/c the fault condition places the system out of safe operating range, in that case the ski should not be ridden until the problem is found and fixed.

 

[ricardo1]

Find why the maint light is on, make sure it revs past 4500 and if everything is ok take the ski to the lake and test it with new 93 oct gas.

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