Need some advise - Rebuilding a 99 GTX-L

[Spunbearing]

Hi guys,

I am in need of some advice. I picked up a 99 GTX-L with low compression hoping to only have to do a top end. After pulling the engine out and further inspection, the PTO rod bearing is bad and I need a crank along with a hone and a new set of pistons. The carburetors are a disaster area too, probably the cause of the failure but I can’t rule out the oil pump just yet. I have been pricing things out and I am not sure which way to go with this rebuild. Here are my questions:

1. Which crank to get? SBT - $375, Hotrods -$600, Seadoo factory reman - $700
2. Where is a good place to get factory Mikuni carb parts? I think I need kit 53-2115 (x2)
3. Where can I get a accelerator pump rebuild kit? Should I even keep the pump? I would like to replace the accelerator pump lines as well, where can I get them?
4. Who makes a good gasket kit? Best to use factory Sea Doo or will aftermarket work?
5. I personally prefer to use premix which is what I run in my XPs. Any reason not to switch to this on the GTX?
6. Anything else I should replace while I am in here? The reeds or the RAVE valves?
7. There is no metal mesh spark arrestor/flame inhibitor grate on the intake, correct? Just the plastic intake?
8. There are a couple of piston kits out there. Which is generally the best?

The main goal here is to just rebuild the Doo for reliability. Any other suggestions would be appreciated!

 

[Spimothy Leary]

I'm ok with SBT cranks and they offer a year on them but there bearings leave something to be desired, but at the competitions pricing, i'm inclined to go with SBT.
many swear by Factory Mikuni, i've ordered from jet-world.net before, but there might be better options.
http://jet-world.net/partsacc/carbsintake.asp
not sure on acc pumps, my guy is not a fan, he deletes them whenever possible.
I use WSM gaskets and pistons
premix is fine
reeds and raves only if you see an issue there.
i don't recall a mesh on the 951 intake, just on the 787's but i could be wrong.

only thing i can think of that you didn't mention was maybe getting some new exhaust bushings, assuming your's are worn when you take out the pipe.

Also if you can get it out (the pipe) w/o splitting it you'll save yourself a ton of time and hassle putting it back in, it can be a real stubborn SOB.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

For the price of the crank and all that work and parts, just send the whole thing to SBT or SES. and get a no fault on the whole thing.

You can't (or shouldn't) do 'just a top end' on a 13 year old engine... you might get one or two seasons at most... something else will fail.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

Honestly you'll save time (lots) but not money by doing an engine swap, and really, if your doing a new crank, and a top end, assuming the cases don't have a hole in them, and the head is good, you'll save $5-600, sending it in doubles the cost but gives you a warranty, i'd rather build one and assume it will outlive the warranty. This assumes your comfortable doing all your own work, there is quite a bit involved.

I believe the OP was replacing the crank, and the Top end, so frankly i'd expect to get many season's out of it.

 

[Spunbearing]

It is almost double the price to do that, $1200 for the 1 year no fault compared to $375 (crank) plus $300 (top end kit). That is why I wasn't a big fan of that option. Opinions on SBT are varied too which kind of worries me.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

yes, you essentially paying double but its easier, with a good crank and top end there is no reason to expect failure if its installed correctly.

is your $300 top end kit just for the pistons or is that a (fantastic, below dealer cost) price on a cyl exchange. if its the pistons and gaskets, your still going to have $100 into the bore, and better make sure a nimrod doesn't do it.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

http://www.seadooengineshop.com/seadoo-engines-standard/

$1,000 1 year

They've done 3 engines for me, very satisfied.

$675 + gaskets? for no warranty so $300 difference...

I don't rebuild mine any more, just send them to them... I buy blown 951s to rebuild and factor the $1k into the price I offer for the ski.

Not saying you should go w/them, just saying that's been my experience.

For $300 the time isn't worth it to not get a warranty, and for me to know it's assembled correctly.

Not to mention if it is the oil pump, you can always get them to rebuild it if it did fail...

you should also replace all the grey tempo fuel lines
replace the oil filter
replace fuel filter
don't premix, it's a pain, I'd never want the hassle on long weekends, fill the oil before you go, and you get 3-4 tanks easy to a tank of oil.

replace the jet pump oil, check that all over.

check the RAVEs, clean the carbs, replace jets if needed with OEM parts.

ummm... not much else I can think of, just refurb anything that looks iffy.

Ace hardware (or similar) has fuel line you can use for the oil lines (replace all of them), and for the accelerator pump lines.

I also use www.OSDParts.com for most of my parts. great prices and great shipping prices.

assuming good shape, i've had reeds over 400 hours old, work just fine.

 

[racerxxx]

Preface---I'm an ALL OEM guy if I can swing it. I am also not in a hurry.


WHOA, put the brakes on. OEM crank $700---your shopping at the wrong place. I can get it (421000711) for $394---That's ALMOST what you'd pay for a SBT---you read that correct! There is a $200 CORE charge on top of the $394, which you will get back. I just did this with my 787 I'm building.

Here's the link to the crank http://www.shspowersports.com/fiche...y=Watercraft&make=Sea-Doo&year=1999&fveh=2332

This place has some crazy prices, they do offer free shipping from time to time, it cost like 10 or 20 bucks to get my crank(had it at my house in 1 week), and yes I had to pay to send it back. Still worth the extra coin for an OEM crank to me. Register on their site before buying anything, or just call and talk to the girl in the parts department about the pricing. Oh yeah, and my PTO was on there good and 1" air gun wouldn't touch it! I sent the old crank back, they took it off and shipped it back, FREE!!!!!

Get all the OEM parts you can(my opinion), I have been buying 787 parts OEM brand new on Ebay for almost half price---you need the part#'s and you also need to know what you are looking for and have the time to do the leg work---great deals are out there, I prefer in the OEM bag or box. Look for OEM gasket kits, don't be afraid to use the "make offer" if the auction has it. Offer less than what you want to pay and let them counter offer--usually with what you want to pay.

Get the service manual, you have the complete resource to build your engine, provided you can read english and have the tools to do it

I offer the MY FAULT warranty. I only like to blame one person, ME. I don't want to deal with a phone call, I'm on it enough. I grew up old school, we paid NO ONE to come do work at our farm, I never out grew that--we fixed EVERYTHING from the house to the equipment.

Depending on how hardcore you want to go with replacement parts will determine how much it will cost you. But for a crank, 2 new pistons, wrist pins, wrist pin bearings, circlips, full gasket set, you'll be around $730 if you were to get it all from SHS. That's where ebay comes in, to knock that price down even more. Stick with the OEM crank from those guys but shop Ebay for the other parts and save. If you can get all OEM for the same or close to aftermarket parts prices, now your talking!

There are two trains of thought, exchange or build yourself, nothing wrong with either.
SES and SBT are alternatives that offer a No Fault warranty at a great price. The is nothing wrong with them. I just prefer knowing that I did it. I'm not knocking anyone's decision on which route they take, it's all about fun.

 

[Spunbearing]

I have to ask, how did you know it was real OEM instead of a rebranded SBT crank or the like? That price seems way too low.

 

[racerxxx]

It comes from the dealer, in the OEM box, with the shipping labels from Bombardier still on the box. I have bought one before, came the exact same way. The other way to tell. It has all SKF bearings, SBT does not use SKF bearings(cost savings), SBT also welds their cranks after they assemble them, OEM do not. They are a dealer, I've never seen a dealer sell SBT engines--at least by me that I know of.

Mind you, that part # is for a REBUILT OEM crank, not brand new. Not rebuilt by just any one, but by Bombardier(or who ever manufactures their cranks). Personally, for the price, you can't beat the quality. I think the only thing that was used on the crank I just bought was one of the counterweights. Every other piece of looked as if it was freshly casted and machined.

Trust me that place has some almost too good to be true pricing. I called to place my order, questioned the price. Got the "no sir, that is the correct price". I get raked at the local dealers by me, so I shop online, I always strive for the best price.

By the way, there is some cheap new in the box OEM pistons on Ebay. OEM pistons will have ELKO and AUS on the crown of the pistons---if it doesn't, it isn't OEM. ELKO is also cast into the inside of the pistons and so is "Made in Austria" OEM pistons also have the exact size of the piston on the crown of it, aftermarket will stamp STD (standard bore) or will stamp .005 or .010 etc... for their oversize pistons.

 

[racerxxx]

Here is some new OEM goodness for your eyes. The only part that looked "used" was the very first counterweight(web) in the picture. Every other cast part and turning looks brand spankin' new. Now you got me spilling my pics for the thread I want to start once I get the XP further along.

 

[Spunbearing]

Wow, that thing looks beautiful! I love posts with pictures so here are some from my damaged engine. Looks like part of the crank bearing was sucked into the head. Does it look like the crank has been welded? The engine is already 1.00 over according to the pistons so someone was in there before me.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

Here is some new OEM goodness for your eyes. The only part that looked "used" was the very first counterweight(web) in the picture. Every other cast part and turning looks brand spankin' new. Now you got me spilling my pics for the thread I want to start once I get the XP further along.

I'm getting a woody

 

[racerxxx]

Wow, that thing looks beautiful! I love posts with pictures so here are some from my damaged engine. Looks like part of the crank bearing was sucked into the head. Does it look like the crank has been welded? The engine is already 1.00 over according to the pistons so someone was in there before me.



View attachment 15116

If you look at the side of the crank in this pic, you'll see a "stack of quarters" going in a circle. That is where they tig welded the pin to the counterweight. So... that engine has already been into before and is more than likely an SBT engine. Now, to most places, they won't take that crank back as a core since it has been welded, so your out on an OEM crank unless you can get a semi clean core from someone else, thus eating into your $200 you'd get back on a core. Sounds like your locked into going to SBT. That's why I personally don't like SBT cranks, your locked into them basically, smart on their part. I use to ride really hard and knew guys that raced, never once did we ever twist a crank, so I never saw the need to weld a crank. Sorry dude.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

actually a core is pretty easy to come by, i probably have one or two 787 cores, the only ones that I keep for myself are ones where the outer bearings can be replaced in the shop, the rest just sit and rot until I actually need them as a core. But I WILL be looking into those deals posted above as an option, its looks dam good.

Earlier this week i needed a 951 core asap (roughly 18 hours to find one), cost me $50 and $3 in gas. duly noted when I "put the word out" i got 4 responses from my local contacts, with prices ranging from $50 , 60, 75 and $100 for cores.

 

[Spunbearing]

Unfortunately I don't have that good of a network over here and ebay/classifieds doesn't look like it has anything on it. I called SBT and they will buy back my crank for $30. Is that guy still selling his for $60?

I called SHS to see what their core policy is but I had to leave a message. Most places give you 30 days to return (or find as the case may be) one.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

probably is, and it should fit in a large flat rate for $15 so your looking at $75 is that worth it to you ?

if it is, then i'd be happy to call him back and pick it up, its only about 10 minutes from my office.

u might wanna try posting a CL ad... you'd be surprised who watches those listings.

and actually, now that I mention it, I have a 951 that will be torn down sometime next week, motor is locked up but it appears to be all OEM, so I'll have a 951 core shortly, or possibly a good used crank. (doubtful, but you never know)

I needed 3 cores for 3 exchanges at SBT and I only had two in hand. (ya, i have a few 951 projects ongoing) and i was too lazy to take apart engine #3 to get to the core, so I put feelers out for a core to save me the time of pulling the engine and splitting the cases late that night so I could make the drive up in the morning. note: on one of my cranks, sbt didn't even care that we cut the rods off (the piston was really really stuck in the cyl, so we said fk it and cut the rods instead) (and they didn't care that the other piston was still stuck in the cyl core either)

 

[Spunbearing]

I got a call back from SHS. They were very nice on the phone and said I could have some time to find a rebuildable crank. If I can send mine back to SBT for $30 (or ebay it for more) and get that one for $75 to sent to SHS I would only be out $45 bucks(+shipping) on $200 core return. I think at this point I am going to go with a crank from them and return the engine to OEM stock.

I am putting an ad on CL now to see what turns up.

What do you think you will be asking for your 951 core?

 

[Spimothy Leary]

prolly 50, any less then that and its better to just hold onto it unless your leaving the sport.
if you have an ad on CL you can dig one up within a reasonable time tho.

if you have a few weeks, vs a few days to poke around, you'll probably find some1 happy to get rid of that dam core.

 

[Spunbearing]

The CL ad is up and the reman crank from SHS has been ordered. I would take yours for $50 if I don't get a hit on CL. I can send you the return box/shipping labels.

 

[racerxxx]

The CL ad is up and the reman crank from SHS has been ordered. I would take yours for $50 if I don't get a hit on CL. I can send you the return box/shipping labels.

Nice!!!!!!!

The girl there Jen, is great. Her boss, I think is Robert, both really cool people. From my experience the customer service is second to none, answered all my questions. I actually gave her a part # for OEM spray paint, which is unavailable. She called me a day later and offered some alternative sources-----Who does that anymore????? On top of that, their pricing is great, I can order on a Friday and have it by the following Friday. I do some bulk ordering when I need stuff, but they do offer free shipping here and there she said. Hope your experience is the same.

 

[Spunbearing]

Jen is exactly who I talked to and one of the reasons I decided to go with SHS. She was really nice and did her best to answer all my questions, especially about the crank return.

Have you ever had them do any boring for you? My local guy retired and his son sold the shop. I had a Sea Doo shop bore a 650 for a set of Wesco pistons but I wan't really impressed and they way overcharged me. Plus they were slow.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

racer, thx for passing along the link, i've bookmarked these guys and i'll give them a shot on the next build. Word of mouth means something to me.

 

[Spunbearing]

So the vote is to keep the oil pump and not go to premix?

I talked to FullBore (http://www.fullboreonline.com) today about getting my cylinder bored. I am already at 1.00 but ProX makes a 1.5 oversize that hopefully will work. Has anyone had FullBore do any work for them?

 

[racerxxx]

There are two schools of thought. I like the injection, but I switched my Speedster to Pre-Mix. The 96 XP I'm doing is still up in the air, I'll probably go injection, no wait, maybe pre-mix, well..... See It's difficult to choose. On one hand the injection will save a bunch on oil costs, on the other hand, it's nice to know the oil is always there. If you go with the injection just follow the procedure in the manual to be sure it works and is adjusted correctly.

Don't forget to ask Fullbore, or send them your Rave valves so they can clearance them for the oversize. At least you'll know if it goes again, you'll need a set of jugs and new pistons and stock RAVE's. I hope it doesn't go again for a long time.

Hey Spun, I just got an email earlier from SHS---FREE SHIPPING!!!!!!!!!!!!! See if Jen can hook you up on the crank you ordered. I think it's time to spend some money again!