Need help fast Please wont start

[seedooer95]

I have a 95 sportser, we put it in the water at the river, colorado river, everything was fine, went for a ride this morning everything was working great as always, then all of a sudden it shut down, it cranks fine but wont even act like it will start up. we checked for spark, weak but does have spark. checked fuel filter pretty clean and refilled when we cranked the engine again. tried a touch of starter fluid still not even a sputter.

Please help me, i've just got here on a two week vacation . Any suggestions are welcome

 

[Dr Honda]

if you have a spark, and it won't make noise on starter fluid... I would say you lost the rotary valve. Either the gears, or the splines on the disk.

by any chance did you convert to premix, and remove the oil injection?

it could be rings or a pistion... but they normally make noise when the break.

 

[DnE1800twin]

I'd suggest checking for compression first. If there is none than theres your issue.
I'm not sure how likely it is to lose the rotary valve. Theres just too many teeth keeping it in time. Although its not unheard of.
If it doesnt even sputter with spark and starter fluid than engine compression may be absent.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Hate to hear it...

I have a 95 sportser, we put it in the water at the river, colorado river, everything was fine, went for a ride this morning everything was working great as always, then all of a sudden it shut down, it cranks fine but wont even act like it will start up. we checked for spark, weak but does have spark. checked fuel filter pretty clean and refilled when we cranked the engine again. tried a touch of starter fluid still not even a sputter.

Please help me, i've just got here on a two week vacation . Any suggestions are welcome

Man, I hate to hear that. Going on vacation and having a problem like this. Since being in this forum, 90% of the problems are based on our everyday riding. But, we have had a couple members in your predicament.

You've got some good advice from two of our members. I think I'd look at the compression. But, if Dr. Honda is correct (and I fear he maybe), then you may likely not be moving it. If it did give way, it will be in the brass gear, not the plate itself.

Although I think all 2 stroke mechanics would not use starting fluid, in a case like this, it might be our last resort to try and get some kind of ignition. Again, as Dr. Honda has stated, if you got no response from it at all, then you do have a major problem.

I hope you just left something out of your thread but from your info, ...

 

[seedooer95]

ithink i must have said something wrong or something, i have compression, i'm leaning towards a coil, or a mag, any ideas in that direction, or any ideas on how we can test the mag or the coil. sorry it took so long to get back to you guys, but they lost internet connection, they have it back so i can answer faster with results. Please help, don't desert me please. Also i wanted to let you all know that it's still oil fed by the oil tank. (factory), no mods to the engine.

 

[kustomkarl]

Try taking the spark plug caps off and cutting 1/4" off of each coil wire. Then replace the cap and see if it gets better spark. Some times the wire end gets corroded and it won't give a good spark. Also check the ground wire in the mpem box to be sure it isn't corroded on the coil end. A quick fix would be a good thing on vacation... Let us know if that's it.

Karl

 

[seedooer95]

thanks for your reply, the black ground wire on the coil mount was loose ,haven't checked yet wheather that was it, but it was running nice and calm, not hot roding, when it stopped, it was like someone turned the key off.
Can you tell me anything about the mag or coil, how i might be able to test?, i have a test meter with me.

 

[Dr Honda]

If you are getting a spark... it's going to check out with a meter since it's a self contained CDI. Also... I've noticed that these CDI's don't have a super hot spark... so if it's there... you should be running, that's why I'm leaning toward the rotary valve. If the gears let go (and they do once in a while) it will shut down just like someone hit the key, and since they don't throw parts like with a busted pistion... it won't make any noise, or lock up the engine.

Open the air filer, put you hand on one of the carbs, and have someone crank it for a second or two. If it's not spinning, one carb won't draw at all, and the other will just puff back and forth. It's easy to check.

I just double checked the manual for a 95... and they only give MPEM tests, and the resistance of the spark wire. The book test for the CDI is with the Seadoo multi tester. It excites the CDI to fire it, and its a pass/fail test. So... according to the book... you have spark... it passes.

Wish I could be more help... Sorry.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Spark and fuel

thanks for your reply, the black ground wire on the coil mount was loose ,haven't checked yet wheather that was it, but it was running nice and calm, not hot roding, when it stopped, it was like someone turned the key off.
Can you tell me anything about the mag or coil, how i might be able to test?, i have a test meter with me.

Because you have spark and fuel, it would seem to x out the ignition. The mag is basically for charging and your trigger coil. If you could say it at least backfired when you hit it with the starting fluid, seems we could look at other avenues. But like Dr. Honda says, you need to pull off your air box and look inside to see if the rotary is turning or put your hand over the intake throat to see if they are pulling a vacuum....

 

[seedooer95]

Thanks a lot guys, we're checking the rotary valve now, will let you know if thatsn it, If so does anyone know where we might find the parts in Havasu Ca.

 

[seedooer95]

OK,seems we have sucktion on both clyinders and it now tries to start but not quite there yet, theres gas in both cylinders.

 

[Dr Honda]

Thanks a lot guys, we're checking the rotary valve now, will let you know if thatsn it, If so does anyone know where we might find the parts in Havasu Ca.

Parker Yamaha isn't too far from you. As I recall... They have used stuff too. So you may be able to get a used CDI/coil cheap to test with.

I spent a lot of time in AZ as a kid. It was allways a good time. Sorry for your luck.

 

[seedooer95]

Parker Yamaha isn't too far from you. As I recall... They have used stuff too. So you may be able to get a used CDI/coil cheap to test with.

I spent a lot of time in AZ as a kid. It was allways a good time. Sorry for your luck.

they sold us a coil with two terminals on it for $100.00 and we couldn't get it to work at all, they never mentioned any used parts, and we cant return elect . they hadf nothing else in stock, thats why Havasu, we feel its the coil because it acts like it floods emmediately without giving it any throttle or choke. Please keep trying to help us, oh we do have goood commpression

 

[the big e]

Water in your fuel? Bleed some into a bottle and see if there is any seperation or just look for it beading up.

 

[seadoodude1]

Spark, compression, fuel it should start. Are you sure battery is fully charged? What is the voltage when cranking? If the stator or charging system fuse went out then battery may have drained down. I would check that first and all the fuses. If you think it is now flooded, remove plugs and ground leads to grounding posts then crank away until excess fuel is dispelled and try again.

 

[seedooer95]

To all of you trying to help me. thank you, we've checked for water in the fuel and theres none, as far as batteries, well we have two, a huge marine battery as are primary, and a regular car battery as are accessary battery, cranking is definitly not a problem, the spark to both clyinders is so mineute that we believe that the coil is the problem, we are going to havasu in the morning to pick up a coil, hopefully thats it, we don't know where else to go right now. I'll let you know what results we have when we get back.

Thank you all and if you have any more ideas please post because they are helping big time, without your help i would have packed it up long ago

 

[seedooer95]

well everything checks ok and people are pointing at the empem, anyone know where i can find a good working used one for a 95 sportster with a 650 engine

 

[seadoosnipe]

Module....?

Your boat, with the 657 in it, uses the older electronic module that is basically a rev limiter and ignition control module. It was the ones used before the digital electronic security system. It's kinda hard it would have blown without any fuses being bad.

Have you pulled your plugs from it, looked to see their conditions and then, put some die electric grease on and replugged them in.

The older 657X model engines used an amplifier in the ignition system. It was only used for a year or two. It serves simalar to the second stage winding to increase voltage to your coil. Since I can't see your electricals, look around and see if there is a unit you don't recognize. You should see your electronic module, rectifier and if so equipped, the amplifier. A small square device, behind the electrical box.

Also, if you do have to replace the electronic module, it is very expensive. And thats if you can find one. Your looking at anywhere between $800 to $1200, depending on where you find it. Do not buy one from Ebay.....

 

[seedooer95]

To all of you that tried to help me fix my boat, Thank You Very much.

I am very happy to announce that my boat is now fixed, problem was not electrical at all, it was siezed piston rings in one cylinder, caused by cheap regular gas, 87 octane, with oversized pistons on the rebuilt engine. It seems if you have an engine rebuilt with a certain brand pistons, you need to use a higher octane fuel because of the way they expand.
Anyway i found an excellent repair mechanic that really knows these motors and dianosed the problem in about 5 minutes and repaired and tuned and timed the motor, all on his day off, Friday, and only charged me $520.00, Did i score or what.:hurray:

 

[mudpie]

the fuel has nothing to due with your sieze
what i see is that when someone rebuilds there motor
they use aftermarket pistons, weisco, athena, ect
then they grab the sea doo manual for piston to cylinder wall clearance specs
and use these specs to bore the cylinders
the difference is between cast and forged pistons
they run a different clearance spec because the two types of pistons expand at a different rate.
just make sure you use the specs for the pistons used
just dont wont you missing something on your rebuild
mud

 

[1stseadoo]

Please let us know how your boat handels havasu, small boat big river/lake gonna be there in spring. Congats on getting it goin, no fun when they dont.:cheers:

 

[seedooer95]

the fuel has nothing to due with your sieze
what i see is that when someone rebuilds there motor
they use aftermarket pistons, weisco, athena, ect
then they grab the sea doo manual for piston to cylinder wall clearance specs
and use these specs to bore the cylinders
the difference is between cast and forged pistons
they run a different clearance spec because the two types of pistons expand at a different rate.
just make sure you use the specs for the pistons used
just dont wont you missing something on your rebuild
mud

Yeh i had the weisco pistons, Your probably right and the person who rebuilt it didn't get the clearance right so maybe with the clearance wrong and the cheap gas, it created my problem, I'm not doubting you at all , this mechanic builds engines for a race team and i don't question him either,because now i'm on the water havin a blast, . Thanks a lot for your information and the mechanic did do what he could to fix that clearance. I guess it was easier to tell us it was the gas,LOL.