Great more bolts I have buy.
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My FIRST 97 SEADOO GSX PROJECT.
- Thread starter sselzer
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Great more bolts I have buy.
Here's what the inside the crack case looks like, I'm so glad I listen to you guys about making sure theres no metal shaving in the case.
The PO said he replaced the gear already, why would it strip again?
Shoud I just replace the whole rotary shaft or just the gear?, not sure if he told me the truth about the gear.
Any easy wasy to remove shaft and gear, or do I need specail tolls also? don't want to screw up again like the cylinders!
Does anyone know the best way to clean the crank shaft,all the bearing seem to be fine?
The PO said he replaced the gear already, why would it strip again?
Shoud I just replace the whole rotary shaft or just the gear?, not sure if he told me the truth about the gear.
Any easy wasy to remove shaft and gear, or do I need specail tolls also? don't want to screw up again like the cylinders!
Does anyone know the best way to clean the crank shaft,all the bearing seem to be fine?
Jetskigoodies
Well-Known Member
Thats why we gave you that advise. We always open them up. Weve found water in the counter balancer cavity, sheared rotary valves, broken cog gears, you name it we have found it. Lol one time we picked up a gsx, we hit the start button and it turned over, he popped the head off and she looked good. We forgot a compression tester but it was soooooo cheap that it would not really have mattered even if it wouldnt turn over, well we got it home thinking the motor was probably good, then we pulled the motor and the bottom case had a hole the size of a baseball right where the counterbalancer and crank meet, i have no idea how we got it to turn over without something binding or even the counterbalncer not falling out. Funny thing is there was no pieces of the cases in the hull or even any oil in the bottom of the hull so obviously the PO cleaned it up just so he could sell it and play dumb about the real problems. Im betting your PO knew about the what youve just discovered. Good thing you got it cheap.
Looks like the O-ring broke and the brass gear shifted back and the gear mesh was mis-aligned and it ate the brass gear.
As far as the previous owner replacing the gear, you can only remove it with the cases split, that is not a serviceable shaft while assembled.
Id' VERY carefully spray the crank seals off with starting fluid, or WD-40 to rid the brass, it was at least contained to right there, so don't spread it outside that zone. Then get a CLEAN (NEW washed and dried) 5 gallon bucket and fill it partially with Kerosene and wash the crank 1/2 at a time while spinning the bearings. The dry/blow it off and lather it as much as you can with WD-40 and put some 2 stroke oil in the bearings and give them a spin to make sure they are nice and smooth.
I can also see this was a reman engine before by the crank bearings and the welded crank pins and the jap bearing in the rotary valve shaft in the case. I also LOVE the cheater job on the RTV on the outside diameter of the crank seals--shady! I'd heed that warning right there, so when you put it back together you better put RTV in the case grooves for the crank seals. And make sure you use something like Threebond 1211 or Yamabond, Hondabond etc... something that is fuel safe. Hopefully you can salvage her back together, but that is a bummer for sure!
As far as the previous owner replacing the gear, you can only remove it with the cases split, that is not a serviceable shaft while assembled.
Id' VERY carefully spray the crank seals off with starting fluid, or WD-40 to rid the brass, it was at least contained to right there, so don't spread it outside that zone. Then get a CLEAN (NEW washed and dried) 5 gallon bucket and fill it partially with Kerosene and wash the crank 1/2 at a time while spinning the bearings. The dry/blow it off and lather it as much as you can with WD-40 and put some 2 stroke oil in the bearings and give them a spin to make sure they are nice and smooth.
I can also see this was a reman engine before by the crank bearings and the welded crank pins and the jap bearing in the rotary valve shaft in the case. I also LOVE the cheater job on the RTV on the outside diameter of the crank seals--shady! I'd heed that warning right there, so when you put it back together you better put RTV in the case grooves for the crank seals. And make sure you use something like Threebond 1211 or Yamabond, Hondabond etc... something that is fuel safe. Hopefully you can salvage her back together, but that is a bummer for sure!
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What's RTV mean?
68ragtop
Well-Known Member
Its a generic term for air drying sealant. The P.O. put sealant in a few places it didn't belong.
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68ragtop
Well-Known Member
Many guys here have different tricks for that. Once the retainer is removed, I used a few different sized sockets that fit over the gear & a couple different length bolts to thread into the shaft. I have seen a few methods on this site. (besides the correct tool)
Be sure to get a long enough bolt, so you can use a nut to tighten up & pull it out, just like is shown in the picture.
Attachments
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I'll to try a socket tomorrow, not sure about what you mean by bolt, but think you mean to insert it in the center of the socket and try to push it or tight it throught until the shaft pulls out. Is that right?
Yes, just make sure the surface that is touching the rotary surface is smooth. El Toro used a pvc cap that he drilled a hole in. Remember to remove the snap ring. To save yourself the headache buy the shaft already rebuilt. before you remove the old shaft wash the case out there is an open face on the bearing, you don't want to get any brass in there.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
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I don't understand how a socket over the gear and sticking a bolt through the center of it will pop it loose?
68ragtop
Well-Known Member
There is a threaded hole in the center of the gear. You want a bolt turned into this hole & bottomed out. Then, the bolt needs to be long enough where it extends through the socket & you can have a washer & nut on the threads. This way you can hold the bolt that is threaded into the gear from turning, & as you tighten the nut, it will pull the bolt out along with the gear shaft. I would avoid using just a bolt into the shaft, without the nut method. Good chance of ripping out threads. I hope this makes sense. a picture would be worth 1K words here......
I really like the idea of racerxxx's mention of a plastic PVC cap. never would have thought of that...
I really like the idea of racerxxx's mention of a plastic PVC cap. never would have thought of that...
68ragtop
Well-Known Member
Actually if you look at the picture I posted from the service manual (sorry its so dang small) you can see a long threaded bolt sticking through the center of the seadoo tool. you can also see the nut. in the top right picture you can see where two wrenches are used, One to hold the bolt from turning, & a second to turn in the nut, pulling out the shaft. It only needs to come out about 1" if I remember correctly. Like racer metioned, be sure that snap ring is removed first, or somehting is going to break...
El Toro 33809
Well-Known Member
In looking at the third photo, the crank, it appears as if the mating gear for the RV shaft gear may have been misplaced. Is it centered between the 2 seals, or is it off centered and is now up against the the seal? If it has moved chances are you will be looking at a new crank.
El Toro 33809
Well-Known Member
I learned this from experience. When ours broke, the gear slid over. I'm sure someone could reposition it, but we ended up replacing the crank. Sorry for the bad news sselzer.
68ragtop
Well-Known Member
If it is indeed slid over, I don't think its the end of the world. I have bearing spliiters that I use on my press all the time. While I have never had to deal with this problem, it sure looks like it could be pushed back in place with the correct sized splitter & a press.
I guess we'll have to wait for a report from sselzer before we get too carried away
I guess we'll have to wait for a report from sselzer before we get too carried away
El Toro 33809
Well-Known Member
Yes, it could be moved back in place, but I don't have the equipment or access to it either.
The two gold rings on ether side of the rotary gear both slide back and forth. Is this a problem and can anyone fix that without buy a new rebuild shaft?
Would you happen to know what size pcv cap, bolt size and length is needed?
No they should slide side to side.
I measured the size socket that I used push the assembly back in. And that was a Craftsman Deep 15/16 socket, which measures 1.246"(31.66 mm) and the bearing is 1.259"(32 mm). I stress the size of the socket because it has to the the shittiest way of inserting the assembly, meaning you need to tap it in on the seal, and pay close friggin' attention to the shaft going into the bearing in the opposite side of the case. If you don't you'll punch the inner race right out of the bearing. Yeah, then your pooched and you'll need to go buy another tool to remove that(internal bearing puller). This is just another one of those critical parts in assembly. Also this size socket just clears the bore in the case.
Anyway, back to the PVC cap, you need one that will clear the rotary gear and be on the outside of the seal in the case. I'd guess 1-1/2 slip cap like this:
Make sure it's schedule 40 also try to get a domed one, and you'll need to drill a hole in the center use an "F", "G", or 17/64 drill bit. If it's domed there might be a dimple on inside of the cap real close to center. Now go back down to the hardware department in Lowe's and get your screw.
The only thing I'll disagree with 68Rag on is bottoming out the screw in the rotary shaft. If you snap the screw in the shaft you'll have a better chance extracting it NOT being bottomed out.
As far as the length of the screw, take a toothpick and stick it in the hole, use a sharpie marker and mark where it sticks out of the shaft. now measure that, then measure the height of the PVC cap, add the two together. Pick up 3 or 4 washers for the screw, if you take you measurement and go to Lowe's you'll need a 6mm screw, take you measurement and measure from under the head of the screw for the correct length. Heck a head bolt might even be the correct length--if that is too long put a nut or two under it to take up the slack. I like to use washers under the head of the screw with grease on them so they slip against each other. Take you case with you to make sure you get what you need the first time. I have taken my trike differential and a pair of dial calipers into Home Depot before so I could "make a tool", the guys in the plumbing department look at me like I have 6 heads.
Now to pic#3. YOU NEED TO TREAT THE PARTS LIKE A NEW BORN. It looks as if you have the crank partially removed from the case and just laying in there on the seals. All you need to do is tweak one of the crank seals and you'll be in a whole 'nother world of hate. Like I saw with the pics of the ruined jugs, they were rust free in one pic yet later in the thread they were trashed with rust---you can't do that you have to keep the stuff oiled or you'll ruin the whole shooting match. Hose it down with WD-40 or something and put the stuff in a plastic bag. Sorry for chewing you out, but this stuff isn't cheap and while it can take a punishing, one small slip you ruin a $15 crank seal and your out $400 for a crank-BE CAREFUL, I hate seeing good stuff wasted.
I'm wondering if this was an SBT reman, I noticed the welded crank, any stampings on it?
Do us a favor and slide the crank seal towards the bearings and take a pick like 68Rag posted---CLEAR, so we can see if the gear shifted like El Toro posted--if so your gonna munch another brass gear. I'll say it now, if it needs a crank too, put all this stuff back together and order a reman engine from someone, and that ain't my bag.
I really want to see you get this mutt back together, but we need to have good clean pics and carefulness!
Whew, now that that is done, next question SS
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No they should slide side to side.
I measured the size socket that I used push the assembly back in. And that was a Craftsman Deep 15/16 socket, which measures 1.246"(31.66 mm) and the bearing is 1.259"(32 mm). I stress the size of the socket because it has to the the shittiest way of inserting the assembly, meaning you need to tap it in on the seal, and pay close friggin' attention to the shaft going into the bearing in the opposite side of the case. If you don't you'll punch the inner race right out of the bearing. Yeah, then your pooched and you'll need to go buy another tool to remove that(internal bearing puller). This is just another one of those critical parts in assembly. Also this size socket just clears the bore in the case.
Anyway, back to the PVC cap, you need one that will clear the rotary gear and be on the outside of the seal in the case. I'd guess 1-1/2 slip cap like this:
Make sure it's schedule 40 also try to get a domed one, and you'll need to drill a hole in the center use an "F", "G", or 17/64 drill bit. If it's domed there might be a dimple on inside of the cap real close to center. Now go back down to the hardware department in Lowe's and get your screw.
The only thing I'll disagree with 68Rag on is bottoming out the screw in the rotary shaft. If you snap the screw in the shaft you'll have a better chance extracting it NOT being bottomed out.
As far as the length of the screw, take a toothpick and stick it in the hole, use a sharpie marker and mark where it sticks out of the shaft. now measure that, then measure the height of the PVC cap, add the two together. Pick up 3 or 4 washers for the screw, if you take you measurement and go to Lowe's you'll need a 6mm screw, take you measurement and measure from under the head of the screw for the correct length. Heck a head bolt might even be the correct length--if that is too long put a nut or two under it to take up the slack. I like to use washers under the head of the screw with grease on them so they slip against each other. Take you case with you to make sure you get what you need the first time. I have taken my trike differential and a pair of dial calipers into Home Depot before so I could "make a tool", the guys in the plumbing department look at me like I have 6 heads.
Now to pic#3. YOU NEED TO TREAT THE PARTS LIKE A NEW BORN. It looks as if you have the crank partially removed from the case and just laying in there on the seals. All you need to do is tweak one of the crank seals and you'll be in a whole 'nother world of hate. Like I saw with the pics of the ruined jugs, they were rust free in one pic yet later in the thread they were trashed with rust---you can't do that you have to keep the stuff oiled or you'll ruin the whole shooting match. Hose it down with WD-40 or something and put the stuff in a plastic bag. Sorry for chewing you out, but this stuff isn't cheap and while it can take a punishing, one small slip you ruin a $15 crank seal and your out $400 for a crank-BE CAREFUL, I hate seeing good stuff wasted.
I'm wondering if this was an SBT reman, I noticed the welded crank, any stampings on it?
Do us a favor and slide the crank seal towards the bearings and take a pick like 68Rag posted---CLEAR, so we can see if the gear shifted like El Toro posted--if so your gonna munch another brass gear. I'll say it now, if it needs a crank too, put all this stuff back together and order a reman engine from someone, and that ain't my bag.
I really want to see you get this mutt back together, but we need to have good clean pics and carefulness!
Whew, now that that is done, next question SS
Here are some better pictures:
The center gear in the Crank shaft that turns the rotary appears to be centered, there is no movement ether. Think I luck out, what do you guys think?
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