Making progress - cylinder 3 problem

[Xware]

So I successfully flashed another siemens ecu to be compatible with my 2004 gtx 4tec.
When I conned to it with the buds software and go to the activations tab I can activate the coils and injectors manually. All the Injectors turn on. But only coils 1 and 2 will turn on (you can hear them) coil 3 does nothing. I do get +12v at the plug. And it ohms out from the plug to co nectar a pin 29 on the ecu plus 1.1ohms..

I used disu flasher . I'm wondering of there are still some settings I need to change. Or something with buds to make it work ?

 

[mkov608]

Injectors and ignition coils are all ground-side switched circuits on your ski; the ECU provides the ground. Power comes from a fused circuit at the MPEM (Pin 2 on the coil). If you have continuity between pin 1 on the coil (close to zero ohms), and pin R29 on the ECU, and you have 12 volts on pin 2, you have one of two things ... a bad coil, or a bad driver in the ECU.

Options:

1. Swap one of the known good coils to the #3 position, and see if you can get it to fire.
2. Connect an LED test light between battery positive, and pin 1 on the #3 coil harness; activate the coil with BUDS and see if the test light will illuminate (blink on and off); you won't hurt the ECU because its a low voltage control circuit.
3. Still another option would be to connect a amp loop in the #3 ignition coil fuse location, and watch the amperage with a lab scope (most folks don't have one of those), while activating the ignition coil.



Go to minute 22 in the video link below: (Control testing of ignition coils); you'll need an LED test light.

Most automotive car computers use ground side switched circuits (ground side switched at the PCM) to control ignition and coil circuits. So while the video above is an automotive application; the information is applicable.

Let's hope it's just a bad coil!

 

[Xware]

So since I used I need to see you that I reflashed to be compatible bubble the ECU that I reflashed was from a ski do is it possible. That doesn't have the driver inside of it for the 3rd cylinder ?

 

[mkov608]

???

 

[Xware]

It was my impression that the lower partnumber is the hardware I'd and the upper is the software I'd. This one has a lower id of 664961. Which I see the exact number on other 4tec ecus however the particular one I got came off a renegade 600 which is a 2 cylinder.

But the exact same number I circled below is found on the 3 cylinder variants

 

[Xware]

In the advanced tab of buds it lists the possible bit for number of cylinders as 1 or 2. If i open up one of the demo configs that came with buds it lists it has different bits for 2 stroke / 4 stroke that don't appear here

 

[ski-d00]

that's number of valves per cylinder, not number of cylinders

Siemens didn't make this ECU special for BRP. It is used on all sorts of vehicles with different numbers of cylinders which is why the seadoos don't use all the output pins. All the Siemens MSE 3.7R hardware are the same and is used by Ducati and all the BRP Can Am, Skidoo, Seadoo, Spyder, etc.

A common internal hardware failure of this ECU is that it won't output the spark signal to one of the coils so I'm guessing you either have a bad ECU or your setting in the variants aren't correct or you have the wrong flash.

 

[Xware]

So I have been learning on my own and though they didn't make the hardware special there are variants of it that have extra features extra features for instance 3 cylinders I have taken apart several of the ECU's in the past couple of days And you can clearly see a missing driver chip Or rather a space where one should be.
I was going to just solder in The missing driver chips from my failed ECU However the ECU that I have that is working has completely different chips in it than in the others.

I have 4 other damage ecus that I was given. And this the micro controller is different on 2 of them the board layout is identicle. Amongst them. The one I purchased to actually try to fix my pwc successfully reflashed. But after running into the issue with cylinder 3 not firing I took it apart and sure enough you can see the missing spot Where the 3rd cylinder's driver should be.


You can also seeOn the original ECU the cylinder 3 driver chip which is not present on the other 3 damaged EC use that came from 2 stroke / 2cylinder engines circled in red
The others are also missing the chip circled in purple which is a low side switch chip. That controlled various things but it looks like that all might take place directly on the chip now on the infinity and chips

For reference the hw numbers are
For the 4tec 664960 ST chip

664990 for the 2 cylinder Infineon chip

 

[Xware]

Just for reference here is the third type of board I have found it's hw number is 664991

 

[ski-d00]

Interesting, and nice work.

This was made for lots of years and I'm sure they updated hardware and chips frequently. There is a build date code on the front lower right which might help, yours in the pic is dated 15 10 04 or Oct 15, 2004.

 

[Xware]

I've got it all figured out now. At least as far as compatible ecus go. I'm just trying to post asmuch info on the journey as possible to maybe help others who want to learn

 

[jakempc3000]

I've got it all figured out now. At least as far as compatible ecus go. I'm just trying to post asmuch info on the journey as possible to maybe help others who want to learn

Keep posting !! Ecu failures / re flashing and component failures have been a grey are for a while. Some Ecu's take the refresh some do not. 3 different Ecu combinations make since.