Maiden voyage fail/carbon ring leak

[96spxpos]

First off,
I'd like to thank bob aka waterluvr for walking me thru tuning my carbs. That ski TOOK off so crisp and powerful that I was in SHOCK! They were obviously tuned wrong when I got the ski over 3 yes ago.
Anyway, put her in the water, even let it idle on the trailer (very low idle, needs to be turned up, no big deal) and it took on NO WATER it was great.. Idled to the beach front, took the seat off, again, no water.
Idled out past the no wake zone, and that thing zipped like a bat outta hell, jumped a few wakes, then decided to go to the shore and check. Took the seat off and water was pissing in from the carbon seal so fast.. I got it to the ramp asap. By the time I backed the truck up and loaded it, the water got almost to the bottom rubber of the battery boot, like right to the engine mounts..
Got it home cleaned it all out, fogged motor, all is well..

So, the engine is aligned EXACTLY how it was before and I had no leaks. This is an entirely new driveshaft rebuild kit and bellows, including a new PTO boot.

First, did I NOT pump enough grease into the zerk fitting to build pressure against the seal?

Also, are my hose clamps on the bellows screwing it up? (I know the bellows doesn't rotate, so I figured it's not a big deal)

And lastly, when I took apart the driveshaft, that half circle chrome c clip came out, and in the rebuild kit, there was no chrome c clip but a completely round rubber o-ring that I put into that groove where the c clip went (I think)..
Does that rubber o ring replace the c clip or does the c clip need to be in there as well? If so, than what's the rubber o ring for?

 

[96spxpos]

 

[LouDoo]

Actually the "C" clip replaces the rubber "O" ring, off hand I would say the "C" clip failed. When you say "the engine is aligned EXACTLY how it was before and I had no leaks", did you use an alignment tool, or just install the motor with the same shims? Maybe this is why not to take an 18 year old ski on a trip across the open ocean. :driving:

You might want to take a look at this thread:

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?71248-How-To-carbon-seal-service-and-replacement

Lou

 

[racerxxx]

Well, definitely not enough grease, and you also need a clamp on the PTO boot that is on the drive shaft. Without that clamp it will retain no grease. And I like them to look like a woman who is 6 months pregnant, plump not bursting. Just pump it until the drive shaft doesn't move back anymore and I give it one little shot after that. Yep, as far up as the stainless collar is it went past the o-ring, go back to the C-Clip

Oh, and you need a VTS mount bracket, you're gonna risk snapping that box off riding like that.

 

[suke]

One of the many reasons I got rid of the carbon seal and converted to carrier bearing.

 

[96spxpos]

Yea Lou I used the alignment tool last time I replaced the motor mounts while in the keys, (the tool resides there with a tool as the owner) and only rode a few hours like that, so I just precisely marked the shims, location and everything to the T.
Looks like that's on the list.
Even after I align it and resolve the issue, I noticed you keep a bilge pump in your ski. Should I invest in one as well?
Racerxxx, yea I've got the vts bracket but the bolts are rusted. Left them in a tool box that got flooded. Will be getting new ones this week

So are you guys recommending taking the rubber o ring out and using the c clip?

 

[96spxpos]

Oh racer I just re read and saw you recommended going back to the c clip.
Thanks!
And are the hose clamps ok on the bellows?

 

[ocod]

Yip,

C clip is the replacement for the O ring.

 

[LouDoo]

Yes, I would put in a bilge pump, especially for your trip to Bimini. Actually it's kinda optional, the bailer system does and adequate job while running. However I sometimes leave my ski's in the water for several days at a time, but regardless I look at it as cheap insurance.

BTW, you really did a nice job of cleaning up your ski.

Lou

 

[racerxxx]

Yeah those hose clamps are ok on the bellow for the carbon ring. But like I said you need one on the small end of the PTO boot.

 

[Waterluvr]

Nick if I remember correctly the pto end of your pump shaft has three retention grooves for the o-ring, in your pics it looks like you used the groove closest to the shaft end so it's not applying as much force to the stainless carrier as it need's. There's actually a spec for the measured overall length of the boot when it's compressed properly, have a look in your manual for that but use one of the grooves closer to the back of the ski and that will put more tension against the carbon seal and boot.

I always used an o-ring on those and left it ride further forward on the shaft groove not being used and put a c-clip further back to tension it. If you ever lose the clip or it breaks you have some extra insurance you can roll back and get tension where it needs to be right away.

 

[96spxpos]

Thanks guys,
Bob, my drive shaft only had one groove in it. It was a quality used one to replace my pitted one. And the one I removed only had one groove as well. I think [MENTION=33508]ocod[/MENTION] sent me the driveshaft, (did you Oscar?) and it was a direct replacement of what I pulled out. So if there is SUPPOSED to be three grooves then I've had the wrong driveshaft from the get go. Funny thing is, there are two rubber o rings that sat in two grooves under the SS ring, then if you count the c clip/o-ring, that's 3 items, so 3 grooves WOULD make sense. Now it looks like I have to look into this and see what the ORIGINAL driveshaft should be for this model/year.
Thanks for the response

 

[96spxpos]

This was the rusted, pitted one I pulled out after becoming the new owner.. Only one groove.

And yes Lou, it's not perfect, but it's come a LONG way.. This was the hull before anything got done.. Major improvement

 

[racerxxx]

In the stainless collar there are 2 o-rings. They seal the water from entering, they do not sit in the grooves on the shaft. The single groove gets the c clip.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

 

[Spimothy Leary]

curiously... is this a 96 spx we're talking about ?

you used the terms: crisp, powerful, SHOCK, and bat out of hell.

I'm trying to figure out if this is another model that you own but didn't add to your sig.

 

[96spxpos]

Hahahaha yes it's a 96 spx well you gotta think, I got the thing with bad motor mounts, nasty dirty carbs, (when I recently rebuilt them, the diaphragms were literally crusted and oxidized) the wear ring was crap, cavitated like crazy, grey fuel lines, rusted warped pitted driveshaft, epoxied driveline bellows/carbon ring etc... And it hit 47 like that.

Here we are two years later,new mpem, new wear ring, completely rebuilt carbs, TUNED CORRECTLY, new fuel lines, cleaned fuel system, new driveshaft, etc.
So, yea, drive that thing then, and drive it now.. I would say yes, BIG difference, totally different ski.. Just the not cavitating ALONE is a totally different feeling.
Curious to see if I get a higher top end speed or just reach that 47 quicker.
Which to be honest, when I see all these year 2000+ skis on Craigslist and they're asking 2,3,4 grand for their skis and boast that it hits 56 mph, yea Spimothy, I'm pretty proud of my skis performance.

 

[96spxpos]

And thanks racer, Im gonna try and fix this all up this week.. Just curious, when putting the C clip on the driveshaft (which I've seen other forums/posts, and they all said the downfall was using the o ring and not the c clip), is there a preference on how the C is oriented on the driveshaft or no bc the driveshaft spins anyway? Like should I clip it from the top, the sides or bottom?

And ps, I saw a 2004 Yamaha with 3 people on it getting towed in from a boat yesterday, so I didn't feel AS BAD

 

[Waterluvr]

Thanks guys,
Bob, my drive shaft only had one groove in it. It was a quality used one to replace my pitted one. And the one I removed only had one groove as well. I think [MENTION=33508]ocod[/MENTION] sent me the driveshaft, (did you Oscar?) and it was a direct replacement of what I pulled out. So if there is SUPPOSED to be three grooves then I've had the wrong driveshaft from the get go. Funny thing is, there are two rubber o rings that sat in two grooves under the SS ring, then if you count the c clip/o-ring, that's 3 items, so 3 grooves WOULD make sense. Now it looks like I have to look into this and see what the ORIGINAL driveshaft should be for this model/year.
Thanks for the response

Ok, now I recall why I thought it has 3 grooves because the 17" replacement shaft I buy from SBT does. You have the original oem shaft (one groove was how it was made) and looks like this.

This is an aftermarket shaft, all kinds of "adjustment" for tensioning the seal and boot to stop leaks and it works on the ski's and boats.

 

[96spxpos]

Yes I saw that from SBT for my year when first looking to buy one and it struck me as odd. I honestly think I'll have it straightened out this week.. As racer said, when I looked at the end of the ss ring where it meets the pto boot, I was able to see the o ring right there, which means it obviously slipped out of the groove.

Bob,
To adjust that idle a little bit, it's a simple as turning the idle screw in a little more on the Mag Carb right where the throttle and choke bracket hooks up to the carb, correct? And can I do this by just taking the TOP part of the airbox off or do I have to breakdown the entire assembly to turn that screw? Thanks!

 

[96spxpos]

Bob, tbh, even the used one I put in DIDNT look as nice as that JPEG you posted

 

[AdamXP800]

curiously... is this a 96 spx we're talking about ?

you used the terms: crisp, powerful, SHOCK, and bat out of hell.

I'm trying to figure out if this is another model that you own but didn't add to your sig.

Hey Now! I had a 96 spx way back. It is a great ski and actually does have decent power haha. I loved the trouble free 717, dang near bullet proof

 

[96spxpos]

Amen Adam,
Thru all the bs this ski has been thru, I must say, she's ol' faithful. Busted motor mounts, didn't realize that the first five times I drove it, the the motor was nearly jumping up and hitting the seat until I rode with the seat off to test a hose and nearly had an impromptu sex change operation.. The 3 of the 4 mounts were busted. And she still got me back to shore, the hull had water up to the spark plugs 3 times and I saved it, and I'm also extra diligent about fogging, I think a little too much, but better safe than sorry, and it still has 150 +- in each "jugular"...
That's why I just can't seem to get rid of it..
I see ppl on here all the time: toasted piston, blown crankshaft, etc.. Thank god I have yet to experience that

 

[Waterluvr]

Definitely have to get the cover out of the way to get a claw in there, I use a really small shirt pocket style flathead and my fingertips to adjust those as my hands are to big to get any closer in there but that's all you have to do.

So it sounds like that ski lit you up like cheap fireworks when you got in the throttle?

Won't take much pitting on an old salt water shaft to let water by the two internal o-rings in the stainless carrier that spins up to 7K rpm's, I really hate water leaks into a hull period so maybe lose that old shaft and go aftermarket so you know the boot can be tensioned enough to stop it or go old school and use the lip seal and carrier bearing.

Either way you need a smooth polished surface on the shaft to get a good seal.

 

[96spxpos]

Well the smooth surfaced shaft where everything sits is perfectly smooth. The rest of the shaft is decent.. It's ALOT better than the one I pulled out the one I pulled out was SERIOUSLY PITTED

 

[96spxpos]

And bob,
Thanks for the info. I know it should idle at about 1500 rpm in water and about 3,000 on the trailer. I think it's at about or a little less than 1,000 on the trailer. With that said, what increments do you recommend turning at? 1/4 turns, half turns?

Also,
What tricks do you guys use to pull the SS ring back so I can get that c clip in there? I think mine is so tight that I really need to use two hands (or I'm just a weakling)
Is there some sort of trick? It's like I'll need 3 hands.. Two to pull the ring back and another to install the c clip