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Low speed issue - 2001 GTX 951

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Highmaster2

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Bought this red GTX hull in January and have been renovating it. Lots of cleaning buffing, etc. Most of you know what's involved. Put in new (rebuilt) 951. I rebuilt the carbs myself - this is the 3rd set I've rebuilt and the other 2 work like a charm. These carbs passed all pressure and vacuum tests - all the check valves, etc. Accel pump was working to both carbs. Popoff at dead on 20psi for both carbs. All new hoses, filters, etc. HSA screws at 0 turns, LSA screws at 1 1/2 to start with. Stock air box and jetting.

I an using the OEM oil pump but had added oil to the first tank of gas to get a 60:1 ratio for break-in. Engine started easily. Idled smoothly. However, when I tried to come off idle, it would start to increase RPM and then bog and die. Didn't change when it warmed up. No matter how gently I increased the throttle, it would not speed up but a few RPM. After a couple of times of going dead coming off idle, I pulled the choke out slightly and it sped up smoothly. To my small brain this indicated that it was lean on the low end. I opened the LSA screws another 1/2 turn - same problem. Went another 1/2 - same problem.

On the good side, if I could get it to 3,000 RPM, it ran like a charm. Very smooth - even a little throttle would result in good pull and the RAVEs seemed to come in just below 5,000 RPM. Was trying not to go much over 5K as it was during the first hour of break-in.

To make matters worse, each time I returned to my floating dock, I would have to jockey the choke and throttle together so I could smoothly accelerate it up onto the dock without it going dead. On the next to last attempt, it died on approach leaving me headed nose first toward my neighbor's dock. I instantly pulled the reverse lever and restarted, pulling the choke and hitting the throttle at the same time. It died. Big crunch. The noise to my ears was that of two cars hitting head on at 60MPH. Why? I had just spent $500 having the hood, gauge cover and mirrors cleaned up and repainted. AAAARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again, in my limited experience, it seems that it is very lean in the low speed circuit. Assuming I'm correct, does anyone have any idea what would cause it to do that? If my diagnosis is wrong, please straighten me out. Thanks for any help.
 
Could be the accelerator pump... there's a little pump beside the carbs that shoots fuel in at first throttle, keeps the engine from stalling / bogging off the line when it's at low RPM and you open the throttle, the air doesn't have the velocity to pull in enough fuel.

Just a guess.

how do the plugs look? after it starts, and if you keep the RPMs up, does it run fine?

Could also be clogged jets? Clogged fuel filter in carbs, or the main one under the hood. Fuel selector dirty, or grey fuel lines?

all factory setup, I've never had to adjust carbs more than 1/4 turn, and only ever the low speeds.

Did you verify the jet sizes at rebuild? I had a ski drive me nuts for almost a YEAR if not more because the jets were the wrong size... (PO had all sorts of engine modifications, but I removed them due to reliability issues).

Also, check the engine compression while you're in there.... if that's not good, nothing will fix it.
 
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Could be the accelerator pump... there's a little pump beside the carbs that shoots fuel in at first throttle, keeps the engine from stalling / bogging off the line when it's at low RPM and you open the throttle, the air doesn't have the velocity to pull in enough fuel. Accel pump was working to both carbs.

how do the plugs look? Have not looked yet. after it starts, and if you keep the RPMs up, does it run fine? On the good side, if I could get it to 3,000 RPM, it ran like a charm. Very smooth - even a little throttle would result in good pull and the RAVEs seemed to come in just below 5,000 RPM.

Could also be clogged jets? Jets were cleaned and clear. Clogged fuel filter in carbs, or the main one under the hood. Fuel selector dirty, or grey fuel lines? All new hoses, filters, etc. Fuel selector was one of the cleanest used ones I've ever seen.

Did you verify the jet sizes at rebuild? They screwed into the carb easily so they had to be the right size. (just kidding) I did not verify the jet sizes. Will do so. I will also re-confirm that the accel pump is still working.

Also, check the engine compression while you're in there.... if that's not good, nothing will fix it. Didn't check it since it was newly rebuilt and I've waited in the past to check it after break-in. Also, it runs so strong above 3,000 I'd be shocked it that was a problem. I will verify, though. Thanks for the ideas for stuff to check on.
 
Accelerator nozzle check valves were clogged. Apparently I checked the pump with the hoses off and forgot to clear the nozzles. Instant results. Now accelerates smoothly from idle whether I do it slowly or quickly. However, another problem has surfaced - it won't instantly return to idle when I release the throttle. At start-up, it idles smoothly at 1450. When I release the throttle it slows to 2000 RPM for about 20 seconds and then drops to 1450. While it's "idling" at 2000 if I quickly pull the choke and let it snap shut it drops to 1450 and stays there. throttle cable has slack. What would cause it not to instantly drop to idle?
 
Now that you got the accelerator nozzles unclogged set your low speed back to 1.5 and then reset idle.


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So.... I was right? ;) Don't tell my wife, my ego is already too big for the house.

My XP does the same thing, when you come off throttle it will 'hang' around just above idle for a few seconds (maybe 5-8 if that), then settle down to idle. It's a huge old carb 2 stroke... not a 2015 Tesla... it's more like a huge chain saw than a precision instrument, and since it runs so well I've never bothered to really dig too deep into it.

Make sure all your idle/settings test are with a warm engine.
You don't want to set the idle on a cold engine, as when you run the ski that's not the temp of said engine.

Do some laps / runs then set everything. Don't try to adjust anything first 5 min on the water.
 
finally an update......

Sorry for the delay... DOH! As JJinSC suspected, I had forgotten to un-adjust the LS screws back to 1 1/2 turns after I corrected the problem with the accel pump nozzles. It did not completely eliminate the problem, but the "hang" is only for 2 - 3 seconds if it does it at all.

And yes, SabrToothSqrl - it was an accel pump issue (actually a Johnny (me) issue). So, in spite of what your wife says, you ARE right some of the time :cheers: Of course, your remark about the Tesla gives me some ideas..... Naw... the batteries would probably be too heavy, anyway...
 
That hang is due to the recharge jet limiting the vacuum on the a-pump. Therefore the a-pump lever slowly lowers the throttle lever back to idle.


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