Immediate Attention Requested - Salt-Water Contamination Issue

[KefirSeaDoo]

Immediate Attention Requested -2005 RXT Salt-Water Contamination Issue

So I just got a phone call from my SeaDoo mechanic mentioning that my bill has totaled up to $500!

I had brought my 2005 SeaDoo RXT (70hrs) to him because I got stuck in the middle of the ocean, where my watercraft went into limp mode and the OIL warning appeared on the LCD. I had to pull the lanyard off of its post 4 to 5 times constantly resetting the warning and allowing me to push 3000 to 4000 RPM to get back to the marina. During that time I noticed symptoms of: white smoke coming out of the exhaust & unusual engine sounds coming from inside the hull.

Initially when I brought the watercraft to him he and I ran a few tests (oil pressure test being one of them, where it failed to maintain adequate PSI during warm-up and normal operation) and deduced the problem to be the oil pressure regulator located at the bottom of the engine. We had also purchased a front and rear oil pressure switch to exchange the existing for good measure (and added expense):banghead:

I get a call from him today mentioning that he dismounted and removed the engine from the hull and the cause of my problems was attributable to salt water contamination in the engine Oil. He mentioned that he had to disassemble the engine, clean everything and replace some parts, which I'm not sure what they were.

I am supposed to go to his shop at 3 PM Pacific time today and it is 11:30 AM as I type this post.

Does anyone see anything suspicious with the above? Any inkling that he may be running game on me? With this mentioning of saltwater contamination in the oil, is there anything I can look for to validate this? He has a habit of keeping all the old parts that he removes and exchanges.

What is the typical protocol when engine oil has been exposed to saltwater contamination?

How the heck does this happen to me, when I freshwater flush immediately after every ocean trip?

I just don't want to be taken advantage of as I feel I currently am!:banghead:

Thank you in advance for any quick responses to my issue!

Kefir

Misc Details:

70hrs on 2005 RXT S/C
Recent S/C Rebuild
Recent FULL Service performed
Had to take RXT back to mechanic after service b/c he filled too much engine oil in the watercraft. Extracted almost a quart.

 

[keltonks]

Hello Kefir. Cannot give you exact information about salt-water contamination, but I have seen quite a few internal combustion engines with water contamination from a cracked head or blown gasket. The oil can turn a light brown, and gets foamy. It doesn't really look like oil anymore, but like some kind of soft drink float without the ice cream. If your mechanic has flushed all of the contaminated oil from your engine and did not save the contaminated oil, it would be very difficult to determine whether there was oil contamination unless someone could tell from the used parts. That's beyond me.

My best advice would be to find a jet ski mechanic whom you can trust and not be suspicious of.

 

[LouDoo]

If your mechanic did half of what he said, $500.00 from a dealer sounds very reasonable. BOAT, break out another thousand, in your case you got by with half.

Lou

 

[Coastiejoe]

First, I would think any mechanic worth their weight would call you if he felt additional work was needed. Or, if he found something he did not expect he should have called.

That said, if he did the work he "claims" then it is a bargain.

But that is NOT the point here. What he did was wrong. I would seriously question his honesty.

 

[Michael211_2000]

You need a better mechanic... $500 for pulling the engine, pulling it apart, cleaning it out, changing some(???) parts out, putting it back together and back into the hull.... sounds like a shadetree mechanic to me. On top of that you really don't seem to trust him soooooo.....

Any honest mechanic shop should willingly retain ALL replaced parts for your inspection and go over them with you in person if requested. All you have to do is ask them.

Now, it's a closed-loop cooling system your engine uses, there's no way saltwater could get into the engine that I can possibly think of here! Saltwater only cools your exhaust and the intercooler (which chills the air before being sucked into the cylinders; you'll hydrolock it if that fails!), the engine itself is cooled with antifreeze and the heat exchanger built into the ride plate under the jet pump. Even if you had a cracked head or blown head gasket, you'd have anti-freeze in the oil not salt-water! If the intercooler failed, you'd hydrolock the engine (raw water would be sucked into the cyclinders, and water does not compress well at all).

I'd like to hear somebody explain just how you get salt-water into an engine with a fully self-contained and closed-loop cooling system! Unless you sunk the hull and then re-floated it, I don't see a way for saltwater to get inside the engine proper short of the intercooler failing and that would have instantly stopped your engine and bent a connecting rod you'd have gone no further at all.

- Michael

 

[KefirSeaDoo]

Hi Michael!

Thanks for taking a moment to read my concern and chime in. So here I am typing this post after having spent $450 (negotiated a little) for the following repairs:

Replace Front Oil Pressure Switch
Replace Rear Oil Pressure Switch
Replace Engine Oil
Replace Oil Filter
Replace Supercharger Thrust Ring and O-Ring
Replace Oil Pressure Regulator (4 Separate Parts in Total Including Two Springs... located at the bottom of the engine)
Disassembly of the Engine and Thorough Cleaning with a Spray Solution

The mechanic mentioned to me that my problem was saltwater contamination to the engine oil. He showed me my oil filter that was almost completely scrunched in. There had to have been an immense amount of suction to have collapsed inward, the oil filter as it was.

The mechanic kept telling me that the only way that this could occur is if the watercraft was inverted (flipped), or if the hull was submerged in salt water by way of leaving the drain plugs open. I take care of this machine impeccably and have never fallen victim to any of the two aforementioned occurrences.

After all was said and done, and repairs were performed, I went to pick up the watercraft. Prior to leaving with the watercraft I had him connect and oil pressure gauge to ensure proper operation. From a cold start we were getting a PSI reading of almost 85 psi after a few minutes it began to taper down to 60 PSI, slowly. Upon giving throttle, the gauge quickly reacted with the PSI shooting upwards at each squirt of the throttle. I still believe that those PSI readings are a little too high for what it should be normally.

I had also noticed a very odd sound coming from the driveshaft in which he was able to make go away with a few squirts of WD-40 on the driveshaft assembly underneath that rubber boot that is there. I understand that the noise occurs when water gets lodged in between some of the components in the driveshaft including the carbon seal. Is there anyway to avoid this from happening? Is that a common occurrence? How does water get trapped in there?

I am completely baffled as to how my engine oil took on saltwater contamination and how it got into the system. I use the jet ski only in saltwater and almost immediately flush the engine and the appropriate sequence right after taking it out of the water. There was one time where I forgot to bring a hose with me to flush the engine at the marina and instead allowed the saltwater in the exhaust to stay in there while I made it back home to connect the hose and flush with freshwater.

My vessel has never flipped and I have never had the hull take on any significant amount of saltwater.

He showed me all the parts that he replaced including the damaged oil filter. He did not save the contaminated oil to show me and just made mention on how it was brownish with a milky color.

And considering that everything should be in tip top shape with the watercraft right now, I am afraid to put it in the water and venture out into sea. I am not even sure what precautions or protocol to take in ensuring its safe operation.

I am flipping shit with these issues and expenses!

 

[Dennis]

The water had to get in the engine either thru a leaking intercooler or from towing the ski too fast. I've seen intercoolers leak, contaminate the oil but not hydro lock the engine. The oil filter collapsed because the milky oil couldn't pass thru it and then the oil warning would come on. Good Luck.

 

[KefirSeaDoo]

How do I test to see if the intercooler is leaking on my 2005 RXT S/C? What are various testing suggestions?

By the way, the color of the antifreeze looked normal. Typically is there any discoloration?


Thanks for taking the time.

Kefir

p.s. Watercraft has never been towed

 

[Dennis]

The intercooler has outside water running thru it, not engine coolant. Cooling water comes from the jet pump then thru the intercooler then thru the exhaust manifold and then out the exhaust. I would disconnect both hoses from the cooler. Go buy 4 ft. of auto heater hose and cut in half. Put a 2 ft section on each intercooler outlet and have the ends aiming up higher than the intercooler. Pour water in one hose until it comes out the end of the other. Then see if the water level goes down. If the level goes down the intercooler is bad.

 

[KefirSeaDoo]

Thank you Dennis!

I am going to HomeDepot tomorrow to pick up clear plastic tubing and strap them to the inlet and outlet of the intercooler. I will carefully watch and see what happens. All this is performed while the engine is off and the key off the post, correct? Being that i didn't flip or tow the ski, this must be the issue.....Also, i ran the ski for 5 minutes in checking for proper oil pressure using a gauge. Do you think I re-contaminated the oil with water if in fact my intercooler is bad? Any possibility the water will evaporate if that's the case? Oil via the dipstick looks fine....I just dropped $100 on new oil & filter alone.

 

[Michael211_2000]

You do realize that if water (or saltwater) is getting into the oil, your oil level on the stick will start to rise on it's own? It's called "making oil". And of course the new oil will go from clear to milky in color, you should be able to tell it on the dip stick even.

If your intercooler is seeping saltwater into the intake, I'd expect your engine to just burn it in the combustion process as highly humid air (with some small salt content to it). There's space in the intake where water can pool and be sucked into the cyclinders as a light spray along with the fuel/air mixture while the engine is running. In order for saltwater to leak from the intercooler and get into the crankcase, it'd have to be allowed to sit on top of the pistons (while engine not running!) and seep down thru the piston rings. If the intercooler were to leak BADLY, I'd expect your engine to hydrolock.

Have you let anybody else take your SeaDoo out for a spin recently? Could somebody else have used it, and either towed it in without pinching off the water line or perhaps partially sank it and not told you about it?

What ever became of the supercharger oil leak you found?

- Michael

 

[Dennis]

Do the test with the engine off and no key.
I hear you Michael211 and agree that it seems that water from a leaking intercooler would just be burned off by the engine and not necessarily contaminate the oil and/ or just cause a miss fire but I have personally witnessed and repaired 4 skis' in the last 3 years where a leaking intercooler has made the oil milky. My guess is that these skis' were run quite some time with faulty intercoolers.
Your current oil is probably fine. Small amounts of water in the oil will burn off and not cause harm. If the oil turns milky it will have to be changed again.

 

[Michael211_2000]

Dennis, is this more commen in saltwater applications than freshwater? What is the intercooler piping made of do you know? Copper or stainless steel or aluminum? What makes them go to leaking? Is it possible that when you turn the engine off, the intercooler leaks a little more water (before the water pressure relieves itself thru the system) which then flows out of the intake and into a cylinder where over a few minues time the water seeps down thru the piston rings (assuming you don't try to start it up again right away, in which case it could hydrolock until the water manages to get out of the cylinder)? There's just no way water could make it from the intercooler and down into the crankcase while the engine is running! Either the amount of water would be so small it would be consumed in the combustion process, or it would hydrolock a piston.

Also I might add that if an intercooler is leaking, it may only leak under pressure so the clear hoses trick may not reveal anything. However if you take your intake off the engine (the intake includes the intercooler) you would find water sloshing around inside of it, it holds up to about 1/2 a quart in there.

- Michael

 

[Coastiejoe]

Dennis,,,
Good suggestion on how to do the test...

I love simplicity...

 

[KefirSeaDoo]

Dennis and Michael!

Thank you both for taking the time in addressing the issue that I am having with my watercraft.

Dennis, I tip my hat to you for the advice given on testing the intercooler. I did exactly as instructed using the metal straps to attached two hoses to be inlet and outlet of the intercooler. I filled both of them with water to the brim and sure as shit, within 15 minutes there was a noticeable decrease in water level.

I was concerned in the beginning that I would need at least a little bit of PSI (10 PSI recommended for 2005 RXT) running through the inlet hose with the outlet hose plugged, to check and see if the PSI is sustained and the intercooler is good. It looks like your recommended test is just as good.

So here is where I am at now. The part costs $562 brand-new..... I have already dropped $450 for nothing...... I have located a used intercooler from a local guy for $200. I plan on taking both 2ft. hoses, metal straps and soapy-water with me to test the used intercooler to make sure that it functions correctly and no air bubbles appear. I am imagining that I could blow through one of the hoses while plugging the other with my Palm, generating some type of PSI, to ensure that it is not leaking. - Any objections to this idea? Any recommendations you can give me for the purchase of a used intercooler? Maybe I will try to borrow a friend's PSI gun, if I can get my hands on it.....If not, I look forward to reading some recommendations. I plan on purchasing this item today.

Thank you again both Dennis and Michael for your input on my intercooler leaking issue.

Kefir

 

[Dennis]

Applying pressure is a better way of testing but I was trying to keep the test simple. Your best bet on a used intercooler would be one that has not been used in salt water as I am certain that the salt water is the root of all evil.

Michael, I agree with your combustion engine logic. I can't really explain the results of the leaking cooler. I just know that it happens. I've sat down, opened a few beers and scratched my head more than once trying to make sense of it. The coolers I have seen were copper.

 

[Michael211_2000]

Well I'll be darned... I would not have expected this outcome guys. I definitely learned something new here... milky oil can be caused by a leaking intercooler.

Kefir, when you get your intake manifold (with the intercooler) pulled off the engine turn it on it's end and let me know how much water pours out of the carb end. Mine had ingested water by accident, and even after the SeaDoo dealership had removed the intake/intercooler and set it aside in their shop, and I bought the hole mess and brought it home and let the parts sit in my storage building for almost a month, when I went to putting it all back together I found there was still almost 1/2 quart water inside the intake! I could hear it sloshing around inside, and when I tipped it on end water started pouring out the carb to my suprise!

Also I just searched on Ebay and there's a complete intake manifold and intercooler all assembled for $129 (or best offer) from an engine which threw a rod. Just fyi, Ebay is a great source of parts for these machines!

- Michael

 

[KefirSeaDoo]

Michael,

I just ordered a new intercooler for the price of $498 for my 2005 Seadoo RXT. I had seen that eBay posting $129 for the complete intake manifold and intercooler assembly, but it is off of a 2004 Seadoo RXP. I noticed that the part number for the intercooler on a 2004 RXP is 420889650 and the part number for an intercooler on a 2005 Seadoo RXT is 420889651 (existing part number on my vessel) or 420889653 (part number via online parts stores.... seems to be the updated part number via Seadoo).

So I played it safe and just decided to order the same part number that's reflected on my vessel.

I am so happy to have caught this early enough prior to launching, having just pulled my watercraft from out of the mechanic's shop. At least my $150 oil service didn't go to waste and the dismounting and flushing of the engine of all the salt water contamination was necessary after all! Had I not caught this in time I would be right back in the Pacific Ocean with this thing!

It looks like my only superfluous expense was switching out both oil pressure sensors (front and rear.... which are probably perfectly fine, so now I have extras if anyone needs) and the installation of a new oil pressure regulator, which too was probably unneeded. The mechanic also replaced the thrust washer and o-ring of the supercharger.....Why? - I have no idea. But there was evidence of oil in the air-hose of the S/C and when he dismantled the supercharger I guess he found it necessary. (?)

As its routinely said, "Bust Out Another Thousand!"

I feel so guilty, though; My girlfriend has needed to fight tooth and nail to get me to spend that kind of coin on her and here I go shelling it out with no alternative....... This better be one FUC%#*@ rewarding experience!!!! UGGGHHH!!!!!!

Kefir

PS I guess the only work that is left for me to do after the intercooler is exchanged, is to burn off whatever remaining water that had seeped into the oil.... which should not be much, being that the watercraft has been run for about 10 minutes on the trailer since it has left the shop. Anyone have any ideas how long it will take for the water to combust out of the oil? Please tell me it is just a matter of a few minutes.

 

[KefirSeaDoo]

Being that water separates above oil, would it be wise of me to siphon out of the dipstick opening a quart of engine oil from as high as of a level as possible after the watercraft has sat unstarted for a week and prior to firing it up?

 

[Michael211_2000]

Uhhhh.... once it's mixed, it'll be a long long time before it seperates again. If you're in doubt, I'd say do a full oil change again. Yeah I know the oil's not cheap but the engine is much more expensive than 4 quarts of 4TEC oil.

- Michael

 

[Michael211_2000]

And take your girlfriend out to a very nice dinner somewhere, something by candelight with alot of ambience... spend some money on her too! Make sure she knows without a doubt that she's worth far more than that SeaDoo to you! ;-)

- Michael

 

[KefirSeaDoo]

Any idea if a 2004 RXP Intercooler will work with my 2005 RXT? The part #'s are different. Is switching out the intercooler as simple as loosening the collar and sliding it out? Is there enough clearance ?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Michael211_2000]

Not sure, not sure why there would be any difference. Same engine, both are 215 hp with SC.

Why does it matter though? I thought you already ordered a brand new intercooler?

- Michael

 

[KefirSeaDoo]

I did,but it will only be received on Friday of next week....Just found a local guy with a 2004 Intercooler off of a RXP. Same engines with S/C's, but it could be the slightest difference between the two that'll screw up the entire installation . He wants $200 for it and i would pressure test it before purchase .

 

[Michael211_2000]

I can only suggest pulling your intercooler and taking it with you to compare the 2. If you can't find a difference, then there probably isn't one.

- Michael