Hep - RXT 260 - won't start - temperature warning

[Gator3000]

(2012 RXT 70 hours)

After a nice day of riding, I was idling/in neutral for about 10-15 minutes on the water while talking with another PWC owner. As I was talking, the temperature warning bell and light went off and I immediately shut the engine off and got a short tow back to shore. I checked the coolant and oil, both were normal. There were also no signs of external heat damage (no melted hoses/wires etc.). After it cooled down on the long ride home, I tried to crank it, but it would not start.

Any ideas on what may have caused it to over heat? Do these things need to keep moving even though they have the internal cooling system? Does the computer shut things down before major damage or do I have the potential for major damage here?

I'm gonna try to get it to the shop tomorrow, but was hoping to be armed with the right questions to ask.

Thanks

 

[Ronsse610]

my geuss, is that you got something in your cooling system that isnt working, and since you have a warning system that shuts everything off and the fact that you shut off your seadoo when it beeped, is you have no major damage.

considering that it was your temp sensor that went off, its got to be related to that!

 

[Gator3000]

Overheating follow up

(2012 RXT 70 hours)

After a nice day of riding, I was idling/in neutral for about 10-15 minutes on the water while talking with another PWC owner. As I was talking, the temperature warning bell and light went off and I immediately shut the engine off and got a short tow back to shore. I checked the coolant and oil, both were normal. There were also no signs of external heat damage (no melted hoses/wires etc.). After it cooled down on the long ride home, I tried to crank it, but it would not start.

Any ideas on what may have caused it to over heat? Do these things need to keep moving even though they have the internal cooling system? Does the computer shut things down before major damage or do I have the potential for major damage here?

I'm gonna try to get it to the shop tomorrow, but was hoping to be armed with the right questions to ask.

Thanks

==============================================

Overheating/temperature follow up....

The good news is that that the the shop told me that they simply replaced the plugs and it started right up, so the computer did its job in shutting things down.

When I asked the dealer what caused the temperature warning to go off, they weren't sure. They said they did not find anything in the intake or exhaust. They speculated and said that these new supercharged sea-doos are finicky and if you do too many doughnuts that cavitation prevents proper water flow raising the temperature causing the cheap factory plugs tend to burn up (is this generally true?). The only issue with this explanation is that I hadn't done any doughnuts for at least a half hour before. The temperature went off after about 10 minutes of idling.


I was hoping for more than guesses. The reason I didn't change the plugs myself is because the computer had lit up the engine light when I tried to start it the next day (and you cant turn these stupid lights off without the software). Also, After this sudden overheating event, I figured the dealer software would show a little more telemetry of what actually happened (i.e. how quickly the temperature rose...was it all of a sudden, or was it running hot all day etc...does the software show this type of info?). I wanted to make sure I was resolving the problem of overheating, not just treating the symptoms of replacing burned spark plugs.

Should I just be thankful and move on until it happens again, or is there something else I should be looking at.


Thanks for the feedback

 

[KK40384]

==============================================

Overheating/temperature follow up....

The good news is that that the the shop told me that they simply replaced the plugs and it started right up, so the computer did its job in shutting things down.

When I asked the dealer what caused the temperature warning to go off, they weren't sure. They said they did not find anything in the intake or exhaust. They speculated and said that these new supercharged sea-doos are finicky and if you do too many doughnuts that cavitation prevents proper water flow raising the temperature causing the cheap factory plugs tend to burn up (is this generally true?). The only issue with this explanation is that I hadn't done any doughnuts for at least a half hour before. The temperature went off after about 10 minutes of idling.


I was hoping for more than guesses. The reason I didn't change the plugs myself is because the computer had lit up the engine light when I tried to start it the next day (and you cant turn these stupid lights off without the software). Also, After this sudden overheating event, I figured the dealer software would show a little more telemetry of what actually happened (i.e. how quickly the temperature rose...was it all of a sudden, or was it running hot all day etc...does the software show this type of info?). I wanted to make sure I was resolving the problem of overheating, not just treating the symptoms of replacing burned spark plugs.

Should I just be thankful and move on until it happens again, or is there something else I should be looking at.


Thanks for the feedback

It is possible to get them hot from doing donuts too long. I've even seen superchargers fail due to too many donuts. Think of it like a car more or less. If you have it at wide open throttle but are barely moving there isn't much water flow to cool it. Same goes for a car strapped down to a dyno. They have a large fan generally blowing air on radiator and/or intercooler to keep things from cooking. Jetskis are the same way. At wide open going in a straight line there's plenty of water flowing to cool it but doing donuts not so much. All in all stop it with the child's play lol. I'm not sure if the computer has a logging feature witch allows the dealer to see if the temp suddenly spiked or if it gradually went up. If the problem persists and everything checks out mechanically I'd look into the temp sensor. They've been known to fail in the older 4tec models.

 

[Rampage]

==============================================

Overheating/temperature follow up....

The good news is that that the the shop told me that they simply replaced the plugs and it started right up, so the computer did its job in shutting things down.

When I asked the dealer what caused the temperature warning to go off, they weren't sure. They said they did not find anything in the intake or exhaust. They speculated and said that these new supercharged sea-doos are finicky and if you do too many doughnuts that cavitation prevents proper water flow raising the temperature causing the cheap factory plugs tend to burn up (is this generally true?). The only issue with this explanation is that I hadn't done any doughnuts for at least a half hour before. The temperature went off after about 10 minutes of idling.


I was hoping for more than guesses. The reason I didn't change the plugs myself is because the computer had lit up the engine light when I tried to start it the next day (and you cant turn these stupid lights off without the software). Also, After this sudden overheating event, I figured the dealer software would show a little more telemetry of what actually happened (i.e. how quickly the temperature rose...was it all of a sudden, or was it running hot all day etc...does the software show this type of info?). I wanted to make sure I was resolving the problem of overheating, not just treating the symptoms of replacing burned spark plugs.

Should I just be thankful and move on until it happens again, or is there something else I should be looking at.


Thanks for the feedback

Alot of the time somthing will plug the cooling line long enough to overheat the exhaust...then when you turn it off and the pressure is gone it falls out. This maybe why the dealer could not find anything. I know in FL seagrass does this all the time. 90% of the time its the exhaust that overheats and not the eng.

 

[Gator3000]

Follow up Part 2 - not so good news

Of course popping in new spark plugs would have been too easy...after picking my rxt I went out to test it. The unit had no acceleration to speak of and could not hit more than 50 mph in sport mode. (the craft acted as though it had a learning key in limited to 50 mph). it seemed to have a rough idle at low speed but not sure if it was a rough idle or slight cavitation.

I dropped it back by the dealer and they again speculated that it could be wear ring or super charger issues now. Again, the craft was running excellent before the temperature problem which only started when I was idling for 10 minutes. I briefly inspected the wear ring myself today and it looked good to me based on the limited view through the intake and nozzle. The dealer supposedly inspected the intake for debris before giving it back to me the day before and they didn't note any obvious issues to the wear ring (unless they never really checked and just wanted to get me out the door)

The dealer also said "the engine compression was normal" and the temperature sensor was good based on the buds readout.


From the responses, it seems that a possible blockage and damage to the wear ring leading to cavitation and overheating is now the likely culprit, but could a failing supercharger cause actually cause similar symptoms leading to overheating and loss of acceleration and power?

I just don't want to pay the dealer $400 for a wear ring only to find out later that wasn't the problem. If it turns out to be the super charger, that would likely be covered under my warranty according to the dealer.

This leads me to a different question regarding the dealer. Shouldn't the the dealer be held to a higher standard for diagnosis and repair since they have the buds system and are supposedly the professionals? Shouldn't they be doing more than just the "trial-and-error fix it" method of a Do-it-yourselfer?

I am afraid that they are going to send me a bill for "fixing" or servicing items that are unrelated (e.g. charge me for a routine oil change to see if that fixes the problem).


Thanks again

 

[Coastiejoe]

I read yesterday that the temp sensors in our Seadoos go bad not normally in a total failure but in a gradual movement.

If this is the case. They will pass the test mode but still affect how the ski runs. What happens is, the sensor is in range but thinks the ski is cold. As a result you get to much fuel at idle and lose top end performance as the engine gets more fuel than it needs for best performance.

If it were me, I'd buy and install both of the sensor and then see what happens. This is easy to do and you can do it yourself. Pretty cheap too.

For years I was a car mechanic and specialized with the computer systems. This exact issue was common on GM cars. Just more reason that if it was me irbid what I would do. If it works, great. If not, you will have two good sensors for the future and they are a common failure.

 

[KK40384]

I read yesterday that the temp sensors in our Seadoos go bad not normally in a total failure but in a gradual movement.

If this is the case. They will pass the test mode but still affect how the ski runs. What happens is, the sensor is in range but thinks the ski is cold. As a result you get to much fuel at idle and lose top end performance as the engine gets more fuel than it needs for best performance.

If it were me, I'd buy and install both of the sensor and then see what happens. This is easy to do and you can do it yourself. Pretty cheap too.

For years I was a car mechanic and specialized with the computer systems. This exact issue was common on GM cars. Just more reason that if it was me irbid what I would do. If it works, great. If not, you will have two good sensors for the future and they are a common failure.

This!

I've had a supercharger fail and it ran just like you describe yours does. Your dealer should be able to check the slip on the supercharger and determine whether it has or is failing. That should be covered under warranty. If that's not it I'm willing to bet the temp sensors are passing the buds test but are giving false readings causing fuel issues. A damaged wear ring will cause cavitation, loss of acceleration and top speed but won't cause overheating. At least I haven't seen it yet.

 

[Gator3000]

Thanks for the great advice.

 

[Gator3000]

UPDATE # 3 - Still in shop - still not running correctly

The dealer has had my rxt in the shop now for three weeks. They are claiming the super charger checks out, compression is fine, and no pump related issues.

Now they are suggesting I may have had bad fuel, maybe even diesel diesel fuel. I can understand if they claimed water was tainting the fuel, but unless the station put the wrong fuel in their pumps, there is no way I accidentally put diesel in there. I have always gone to the same station and run the premium 93 octane in my machine. I even have some of the same fuel in a spare gas that I used the day the machine overheated (can this fuel be easily tested for contamination? ). They want to charge me to drain the fuel and lake test the machine yet again in hopes that will fix the problem.

So I'm back to square one. It seems the dealership has no clue at this point. They said they charge for lake testing, and I suspect they have taken it out three or four times now ( I need to be charging them rental fees!). They seem to be throwing out guesses and racking up a big bill for me...Change the plugs...test...change the gas..test...etc. I only took it to them cause in case whatever they found would be covered under my warranty (but they say lake testing is never included in even if the damage ends up to be covered under warranty).


I have a couple questions.

1) Is bad fuel a reasonable theory to explain the symptoms of the machine originally overheating and the spark plugs burning out after running perfectly on the same fuel all day?...and then after changing the spark plugs, cause the machine to fire up immediately, but then not accelerate correctly and not reach top speed?

2) They have been running my machine on the hose at the shop for 30 minute or longer trying to see if the machine will overheat or temperature warning to go off again. If I understand my manual correctly, it says not to run longer than 2 minutes on a hose or else the drive seal will burn up and cause it to leak. When I asked the dealer this, they shrugged it off saying it was OK to do this and won't hurt.

Thanks for any guidance or ideas in this matter

 

[Rampage]

UPDATE # 3 - Still in shop - still not running correctly


I have a couple questions.

1) Is bad fuel a reasonable theory to explain the symptoms of the machine originally overheating and the spark plugs burning out after running perfectly on the same fuel all day?...and then after changing the spark plugs, cause the machine to fire up immediately, but then not accelerate correctly and not reach top speed?

2) They have been running my machine on the hose at the shop for 30 minute or longer trying to see if the machine will overheat or temperature warning to go off again. If I understand my manual correctly, it says not to run longer than 2 minutes on a hose or else the drive seal will burn up and cause it to leak. When I asked the dealer this, they shrugged it off saying it was OK to do this and won't hurt.

Thanks for any guidance or ideas in this matter

Im not there so Im not a bunch of help through a forum. I do know this... If we question the fuel we drain it and start with fresh fuel...Its not hard to do and only takes a min.. I would think it would smell really bad and smoke like crazy if it was diesel fuel..

2nd.. We sometimes have to do extended flushes on seadoo's here... We fill the hull up with water untill the Crabon seal is under water so it stays cool while running for a longer then reccomended time... Also we have the ride plate being sprayed at the same time since this is actually your radiator for the eng cooling.

What part of Florida are you in?? I would love to help if I can.

 

[Rampage]

UPDATE # 3 - Still in shop - still not running correctly


I have a couple questions.

1) Is bad fuel a reasonable theory to explain the symptoms of the machine originally overheating and the spark plugs burning out after running perfectly on the same fuel all day?...and then after changing the spark plugs, cause the machine to fire up immediately, but then not accelerate correctly and not reach top speed?

2) They have been running my machine on the hose at the shop for 30 minute or longer trying to see if the machine will overheat or temperature warning to go off again. If I understand my manual correctly, it says not to run longer than 2 minutes on a hose or else the drive seal will burn up and cause it to leak. When I asked the dealer this, they shrugged it off saying it was OK to do this and won't hurt.

Thanks for any guidance or ideas in this matter

Im not there so Im not a bunch of help through a forum. I do know this... If we question the fuel we drain it and start with fresh fuel...Its not hard to do and only takes a min.. I would think it would smell really bad and smoke like crazy if it was diesel fuel..

2nd.. We sometimes have to do extended flushes on seadoo's here... We fill the hull up with water untill the Crabon seal is under water so it stays cool while running for a longer then reccomended time... Also we have the ride plate being sprayed at the same time since this is actually your radiator for the eng cooling.

What part of Florida are you in?? I would love to help if I can.

 

[Gator3000]

I'm in the Tampa area just north of you. Hopefully the problem will be resolved if it was bad gas, I should know later today. The dealer is claiming it is running "much better on the hose now." (but they also sent it out of their shop to me before after running it on the hose, so I'm not sure if that means much).

I personally don't think it's gas related. I think there would have been some sort of misfiring, rough idle or some other sign perhaps depending on the contamination. And, I would think that the craft should have performed exactly the same before the temperature warning as well as after since it was using the same "bad" gas (the boat was running perfectly all day...then when idling it overheats and shuts down....the plugs are changed....and then, with the same gas that was in it before, it doesn't want to run correctly???)

Is it possible to put the wrong spark plugs in, or gap them incorrectly to result in limiting acceleration and top speed (even is they say the supercharger and engine compression are testing out fine)?

I'll hopefully know more today or tomorrow. Thanks again

 

[Rampage]

I have never gapped my plugs in my ski. I take them out of the box and drop them in. If you dont get some resolve, let me know. I ride all the time and would be happy to meet up with you and take it for a ride.

 

[Gator3000]

Final update - After three weeks in the shop, I'm back up and running!

The service tech simply replaced the gas and the machine ran fine. I ran it hard all day and raced a couple friends so I'm back to full performance. I picked the techs brain, and he is still convinced it was bad gas contaminated with what he thinks was diesel. He said that gas felt "greasy" and would foam up a little bit similar to his experience with diesel. There is no way I put diesel in it , but I will never get gas at the shell station anymore because it had to be contaminated at the station with something.

I guess whatever the gas was contaminated with had a cumulative effect causing the machine to overheat and then burn up the spark plugs, and then killed my my power even after the plugs were changed.


Thanks for all the input.

 

[KK40384]

Good to see you're up and running again. That's definitely an extreme case of bad gas. I'm glad that's all it was though. Fairly cheap fix.