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Help with new to me spx 800
- Thread starter Tlr386
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funsummerahead
Active Member
I've never seen that or heard of it before. The only bad carbon rings I've seen let water in the hull. Maybe because the ski was taking on so much water they didn't notice the cavitation.
Yes, the carbon seal is a funny thing as they can suck air but not leak water and leak water but not suck air, so go figure.
funsummerahead
Active Member
I will have to take your word for it. But it does sound really unlikely, I've never seen or heard that and I would have to see it to truly believe it. What would cause a carbon ring to do this? It's worn perfectly to the point it lets air through under power but not water? Sounds impossible. He replaced all the driveline parts too so in this case I'm pretty firm with the PTO.
It's typically not enough pressure between the stainless hat and the carbon ring. Remember that when a pump is running it is actually a low pressure area and the water is being forced in by higher atmospheric pressure. So when there isn't enough pressure to make the seal the outside air from the higher pressure engine compartment can get forced in but since the water is going out the pump it doesn't go into the engine compartment. This can be caused by a work carbon ring, worn stainless hat, engine too far forward, pump too far back, worn driveshaft bumpers.
I think that pretty much explains it. I am sorry if you don't believe it or understand it but those of us here that have been working on these for over 25 years have seen a few things and know a few things about them.
See post #12 he checked the driveshaft and PTO.
I think that pretty much explains it. I am sorry if you don't believe it or understand it but those of us here that have been working on these for over 25 years have seen a few things and know a few things about them.
See post #12 he checked the driveshaft and PTO.
funsummerahead
Active Member
I've been working on skis, outboards and sleds for well over 25 years so I know a few things myself.
As the guy stated he REPLACED ALL THOSE PARTS so do you think it's the carbon ring?
I don't think so. It sounds like the only thing he didn't replace was the PTO... So it's most logically the PTO or he's not describing the condition to where we understand it. I'm sorry that I offended you and your expertise but maybe, just maybe you're wrong.
As the guy stated he REPLACED ALL THOSE PARTS so do you think it's the carbon ring?
I don't think so. It sounds like the only thing he didn't replace was the PTO... So it's most logically the PTO or he's not describing the condition to where we understand it. I'm sorry that I offended you and your expertise but maybe, just maybe you're wrong.
You are new here but in a very short amount of time you have been very argumentative and abrasive. This isn't that kind of forum. We try to rule out the most commonly seen issues first and do the best we can to help over the internet. We are all here to help not argue. You can consider this a warning.
I am not offended in the least, I could be wrong and I am sure I will be wrong in the future. I encourage you to stay and be a respectful and helpful member of our community here.
Well, the OP could push the accordion boot forward from the rear to increase tension. They did that on the hyperbolic hulls and actually used an o-ring as a spacer. I'd like to see a picture of the wear ring/impeller gap. If it's the original pump, which I believe is an all plastic pump with the aluminum hub, those are know to crack by the hub and also know to not be round. If any of the stator blades are chipped or mangled from a prior owner that will disturb the water flow. Seadoo even used screws to hold/manipulate the wear ring.
Also, to the OP, when you reinstalled the drive shaft, did you pump the pto full of grease thru the zerk fitting on the pto?
And typical car talk? Anyone that's into cars knows what a rev limiter is and does. That's why none of us questioned him on that. Many of us here are into anything with an engine, many of those have a rev limiter. So sorry for the confusion and generalization on my part.
Also, to the OP, when you reinstalled the drive shaft, did you pump the pto full of grease thru the zerk fitting on the pto?
And typical car talk? Anyone that's into cars knows what a rev limiter is and does. That's why none of us questioned him on that. Many of us here are into anything with an engine, many of those have a rev limiter. So sorry for the confusion and generalization on my part.
funsummerahead
Active Member
Who did I argue with? Who was I abrasive to? Who did I disrespect? I think that's a no on all 3. I disagreed with a couple answers but I certainly didn't argue, be abrasive or disrespect anyone. If this was simple math we would all have the same answers but it isn't so we won't have the same answers. We post info from our past experiences to help others so not all posts will have the same answer.
The op didn't mention if he replaced the bellows when ho replaced the carbon ring. The bellows grow weak over time and don't put as much pressure on the carbon ring and suck air. A well-known problem. The bellows must always be replaced when replacing the carbon ring.
Chester
Chester
funsummerahead
Active Member
It sounds like he did. - Copied and pasted from first post. Impeller was bent and dinged up so I ordered a new impeller, wear ring, bearings, seals, nose cone, carbon ring, float ring, Bellow the whole 9 yards rebuild the pump.
It sounds like he replaced everything in the driveline except the PTO. It only slips once in a while and on hard throttle so as the PTO was the only part not replaced I thought it may be going bad. He sail the ride plate and intake grate were tight too.
It sounds like he replaced everything in the driveline except the PTO. It only slips once in a while and on hard throttle so as the PTO was the only part not replaced I thought it may be going bad. He sail the ride plate and intake grate were tight too.
LikeabossTM
Active Member
I bought a ski with a stripped PTO that I'm replacing. Upon causal inspection you'd think it was fine, and the driveshaft splines would slot in and seem fine by hand. But if you looked closely at just the right angle, and shone a light at just the right angle, you could see some flat spots on the PTO splines deeper down towards the engine side. With a floating driveshaft under running engine torque, this could manifest as intermittent slipping, if it wasn't completely stripped.
Hey guys just noticed all the replies my email never notified me. I haven't had a change to mess with it since, but a few more things I noticed that could be help figure this thing out. Ithe last time I rode it I was trying to find some variables that changed the way it showed it's problem. One thing I did notice is when going with the chop it cavatates alot more frequently. Going into the chop is when it performs the best it screams full speed against chop, as soon as a hit a bigger wave while at speed it seems to initiate the problem. Which leads me to believe that it could be something to do with intake grate or ride plate. When I say I checked them it was just a visual inspection , is there something I can do to test this or maybe a common place I need to seal? Also another thing I noticed is Everytime I take the pump off and reinstall it temporally fixes the problem then goes right back to barley being able to get on plane, which makes me think it's the seal to the pump but it has to be tight I cleaned everything off and put the new neoprene seal and also sealed the shoe to the hull. I'm going to try the zip tie next to the Bellow just for the hell of it but these parts are brand new. And I checked all the motor mounts none have play.
funsummerahead
Active Member
Please post some pictures, especially the "zip tie to the bellows".
Why are you always the first to reply but offer the least amount of help/wrong info? The zip tie in front of the Bellow is a a legit thing to push the Bellow forward to pit more pressure on the float ring to test if it's the carbon seal leaking. stay the fuck off my thread with your better than everyone else attitude. I don't need any advice from you anyway or your sarcasm.
When you day you sealed the shoe to the hull, did you actually remove the entire rideplate/shoe?
This sounds like cavitation especially how it can be fine for a little while and then comes and goes. If you actually had stripped splines it would just keep getting worse and wouldn't be better going into or with the chop.
BTW: the ziptie trick is a legit method of putting more tension on the bellows. Seadoo actually did the same thing on the 97+ XP's but with an o-ring.
This sounds like cavitation especially how it can be fine for a little while and then comes and goes. If you actually had stripped splines it would just keep getting worse and wouldn't be better going into or with the chop.
BTW: the ziptie trick is a legit method of putting more tension on the bellows. Seadoo actually did the same thing on the 97+ XP's but with an o-ring.
funsummerahead
Active Member
No sarcasm here. You clearly misunderstood. Zip ties are plastic and shouldn't be on there. Or you're referring to a stainless steel hose clamp or oetiker clamp as a zip tie? Pictured below are what I call zip ties and those may not be good enough to seal the bellows which is why I also agreed with RACERXXX to post pictures.
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You both are talking about two different things here.
The OP is talking about putting a ziptie between the bellow and the hull thus pushing the bellows towards the carbon seal and getting more tension on it to seal. Seadoo actually did this from the factory on the 97+ XP's but with a big o-ring. This is a very common temporary fix on the seadoo's.
Can't post a pic, at work.
So, you leave the original hose clamps on the bellows. The one that's right next to the hull.....the back of the bellow, not the front where the carbon seal is.......loosen that clamp, then push the bellow forward towards the engine. Now take a "cable tie" and put it around the black plastic thru hull fitting....the part that the driveshaft goes thru. Now clamp the rear hose clamp back on the bellow. That cable tie is your "spacer". You have more effectively increased the carbon seal pressure. As I stated before, Seadoo did this on the hyperbolic hulls but they used a thick o-ring, it's right on the fiche from Seadoo.
So, you leave the original hose clamps on the bellows. The one that's right next to the hull.....the back of the bellow, not the front where the carbon seal is.......loosen that clamp, then push the bellow forward towards the engine. Now take a "cable tie" and put it around the black plastic thru hull fitting....the part that the driveshaft goes thru. Now clamp the rear hose clamp back on the bellow. That cable tie is your "spacer". You have more effectively increased the carbon seal pressure. As I stated before, Seadoo did this on the hyperbolic hulls but they used a thick o-ring, it's right on the fiche from Seadoo.
You mean like I posted in post #33.Were saying the exact same damn thing Racer, LOL
I just wanted to get one more hit on the dead horse. Trying to paint the picture as best I can, lol.
Yes, but some still didn't understand what you were saying in post #33 so let the dead horse beating continue.......
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