Exploded Carbon Ring

[SeattleMatt]

So I finally got my 1997 Seadoo XP fuel lines replaced, carbs cleaned and tuned, and I go out for a test run. It ran great for about 5 minutes and then it almost sank! I limped it to shore and found my carbon ring had exploded, hose clamps and boot was ripped to shreds.

So no I am faced with replacing the carbon ring and boot and any other parts that may have been damaged.

So far I have removed the pump, and the shaft is hanging loose connected to some coupler under the seat.

My problem is that I cannot figure out how to get the shaft the rest of the way out so that I can slide the new parts onto it. The shaft has a lip that I assume the carbon ring rides on but prefents it from exiting the back of the seadoo due to a rubber stop that is epoxied into the hull.

Any idea how to remove this shaft? Or is the DIY somewhere on how to replace the carbon ring on an XP?

Thanks!

 

[Dr Honda]

WOW... carbon rings NEVER fail like that. I guess if is had been grossely over-heated... and the clamp was tight... that would do it.


Anyway... the "lip" is the stainless ring. Put your pump back on, and then push the ring toward the transom. Once it moves, you will see a clip, or an O-ring. Remove it... and then you can push it off the shaft. BUT... you need the pump in the hull, so you can use it to hold the shaft.


FYI... if it's never been done... they are hard to move, so spry a little penetrating oil between it and the shaft.

 

[SeattleMatt]

Ok, just to verify, the stainless ring slides off the shaft towards the stern? This ring appears to be part of the shaft, if it is held on by a clip it must be pretty solid, seems like removing it with force this way might mess up the anti-knock pusher in the cone?

 

[SeattleMatt]

My guess is that I ran this thing many times without water on the ring, had no idea about this, I was too busy checking temp on the motor to make sure I didn't get it hot without water, rookie mistake. :willy_nilly:

 

[SeattleMatt]

Anyone have any suggestions on where to purchase a carbon ring and boot kit?

 

[Dr Honda]

The stainless ring will slide off going forward. (toward the Bow) But, you have to slide it back (stern) a little, to get to the clip.

You may not need a new stainless ring... but ONLY use an OEM carbon ring. The aftermarket rings wear too quickly. You will also want 2 new O-rings that go inside the stainless ring.

 

[Guest_User]

Anyone have any suggestions on where to purchase a carbon ring and boot kit?

wow, I`ve seen them pretty darn bad, but coming apart, that`s a first...

Perry Performance Group in FL
SBT also in FL
Riva in Florida
you can purchase from these shops online...

unless you find a dealer local, you can also search the net...

 

[SeattleMatt]

Thanks, I guess I'm going to have to wait for a long ship time since they are all on the other side of the country I ordered from SBT driveline kit without PTO, and bellows, which for some reason wasn't included in the driveline kit.

 

[SeattleMatt]

I got the shaft out and wear ring off, thanks for all the help so far

I get the shaft out and it's bent!!! About 1/2 inch of delflection. Any ideas what could bend the driveshaft? My guess is the hose clamp got jammed up when the carbon seal blew.

Should the pto ride smoothly in the mount? It seems like the pto just rolls around somehow in the mount.

 

[Dr Honda]

As you can imagine... it's not easy to bend one of those short, stainless steel shafts. Generally what bends them is the engine/pump being WAY out of alignment. Because it's bent so bad... you will want to check the engine mounts, and the pump bearings.

 

[SeattleMatt]

Well, I ordered a shaft off of ebay for $65 since it was $150 on SBT for a new one Hopefully it comes soon so I can actually use this thing this summer.

I wish I had a real boat about now

 

[JJinSC]

So just to clarify, You leave the pump on until the clip, o-ring is removed. Then you remove the pump and the shaft will move rearward enough to replace the carbon ring?

Any special tool need to remove the clip or o-ring?

 

[SeattleMatt]

In my case I believe the clip and o-ring are already gone as they are part of the carbon ring itself. In my case the steel ring was only being held on by two rubber o-rings that provide friction on the shaft, i just lube it a bit and it slid right off while I pulled the shaft out from the back.

 

[SeattleMatt]

Well, it looks like the "PTO" is also in bad shape. I took it out and found that it does'nt seem to spin and has some rollers burns up.

What does PTO stand for anyway?

 

[SeattleMatt]

Actually I mispoke, what I am describing is noted in the manual as the "Mid Bearing" and it doesn't turn inside the housing, the housing does however turn inside of the clamps that hold it and pivoit, but that is not a very smooth way to turn. this is hard to describe.

Well, it looks like the "PTO" is also in bad shape. I took it out and found that it does'nt seem to spin and has some rollers burns up.

What does PTO stand for anyway?

 

[maximoose]

pto= power take off

 

[Strizzo]

the 97 has a rear support bearing, which should be filled with grease and have two seals either end with a roller bearing inside. i think the bearings are the same as used in the jet pump, but i'm not sure. they are installed with the same tool at least. power is transferred from the engine through a driveshaft connected with couplers and rubber dampers a la yamaha to the rear driveshaft, which has splines to mate to the rear driveshaft coupler. it sounds like your bearing didn't get greased and has seized up. if the grease fitting turns with the shaft, then you have a problem. OSDparts sells a complete updated rear support bearing if you don't want to rebuild, but i don't know where you might get the part that clamps the bearing in place.

part of the problem is that the stainless ring was originally held in place with a rubber o-ring, which deteriorated and let the stainless ring ride up the shaft and gouge out the grease seal on the rear support bearing. at least thats what was happening with mine when i got it.

sounds like you've got some bigger issues than just the carbon ring on this one...

 

[SeattleMatt]

Ok, I am trying to purchase the replacement part for this, but upon further research I am becoming more confused. Some sites are labeling it as a seal, the manual calls it a "mid bearing". I want to spend as little as necessary to fix this so I don't necessarily want to replace the whole unit if I don't have to. Here are the parts that I am seeing for replacement.

http://osdparts.com/index.php?main_page=product_free_shipping_info&cPath=2&products_id=3
http://osdparts.com/index.php?main_page=product_free_shipping_info&cPath=2&products_id=66
http://www.shopsbt.com/sea-1997-xp/70-105C.html

 

[SeattleMatt]

Here are some pics

 

[Strizzo]

your first and second links are complete replacements for the bearing carrier assembly, your middle link is just a replacement bearing and seal for your current one, if you already have Dr. Honda's pump tools, you can fix the carrier you have with those parts.

re: pic of the shaft - how the heck did it get that bent? that is not a small amount! its possible that it was bent enough for the shaft to hit the carbon ring, which could be why it shattered. another bit of unfortunate news, you will need an alignment tool to set the location on the support bearing in its holder, otherwise it will be off, and can chew up the drive coupler splines and/or the impeller splines.

 

[SeattleMatt]

My assumption is that either the carrier wasn't greased in years and froze up, or the carbon ring overheated, now leaning more towards the bearing carrier as the culprit. I had to drive the seadoo back to the dock when it started leaking, which probably didn't help matters much. Otherwise it would be at the bottom of the lake, which may be were it belongs :blush:

I don't have any special tools for the Seadoo yet, just my basic shop.

Yes, I heard about the alignment tool, I have one for my mercruiser, but that's no help I really hate to invest in tools since I'm planning on selling the XP and buying another boat.

From what I hear it's impossible to align without the tool? Sounds like I'm screwed.

 

[Strizzo]

My assumption is that either the carrier wasn't greased in years and froze up, or the carbon ring overheated, now leaning more towards the bearing carrier as the culprit. I had to drive the seadoo back to the dock when it started leaking, which probably didn't help matters much. Otherwise it would be at the bottom of the lake, which may be were it belongs :blush:

I don't have any special tools for the Seadoo yet, just my basic shop.

Yes, I heard about the alignment tool, I have one for my mercruiser, but that's no help I really hate to invest in tools since I'm planning on selling the XP and buying another boat.

From what I hear it's impossible to align without the tool? Sounds like I'm screwed.

i would think with a bend that bad, it would be vibrating quite a bit, was it? I wish i could help, but i just sold my tool to a guy in northern cali, maybe you could post a wanted on the west coast ad in the classifieds looking for one to borrow or rent.

it probably wouldn't have sunk completely, they put floatation foam in them so that supposedly they won't go to the bottom if they get fully swamped, but it would have been a long swim back with that boatanchor behind you.