Dealer says new engine is needed, I'm not so sure. Thoughts?

[monteburns]

Hi All,
Long time Seadoo owner, but I've got an issue that has me a bit perplexed.
The machine in question is a 2002 GTX 4-Tec Limited, NA. 137 hours.

History:
I purchased the machine from a guy a little over a year ago. At the time it was not running very well, so I did a compression check on each cylinder prior to buying it and all three cylinders were almost exactly the same. The gauge I used showed between 150 and 155 PSI for all three.

I ran it once on the lake and ran for awhile but not very well. The impeller and wear ring were beat so I replaced both of those.

Next time on the lake, I took off from the dock. Went pretty well, but not as fast as a 155 normally goes. Couldn't get above 45 MPH on the clock. After only 10 minutes or so the engine started losing RPMs to the point that it just died. When attempting to start, it would crank and not turn over. We towed it in (slowly). I was able to start it but it never really ran well again. Put a new battery in it because it wouldn't hold a charge. Thinking it was something electrical like a voltage regulator, I took it to the dealer last week.

Dealer Response:
Dealer calls me and says that he was able to get it started in the shop on the hose, but couldn't keep it going. Ran it long enough to check codes, there are none. Tells me there are some metal bits in the oil filter and that he felt like the engine needed to be replaced. He said compression was good on all three cylinders but that the third cylinder was a bit lower than the other two. He said the electrical all seemed to be in good shape, though I don't think he ran it long enough to do any electrical tests.

What perplexes me is this: if compression is good and the engine will turn over, does that indicate a trashed engine? It doesn't backfire or blow smoke either. I can't imagine what would be broken in the engine that would warrant a replacement if the engine isn't seized.

Anyway, before I throw tons of money at this, wondered what the community thinks?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Nike12000]

something else come have come apart and cause the metal in the system and not be a piston or ring my feeling is that if compression is good then rings valves are good but anything else could be bad

 

[Rrm1387]

Is this a trusted dealer? Did you see this metal. I would question him on this decision . I would check for spark and fuel. metal parts wear metal chunks are another thing

 

[benjilafouine]

For a 2002 model, I wouldn't trust BRP dealers. They are not trained nor supporting 10+ years skis. I learned it the hard way last year. Maybe they are still a bit more qualified on a 4-tec than on a two-stroke. I would seek a second opinion elsewhere, like a good local shop.

Benji.

 

[Coastiejoe]

I would check into the fuel I think. Quality and or pressure issue.

 

[jammin777]

yes i would want to see the metal shavings the dealer spoke about. aside from the pistons could be crank or rod bearing shavings but most likely hear a knocking noise if that were the case. does the engine make any noise such a knocking or maybe timing chain slap against the cover? may pop off the valve cover and check the cam condition and rocker arms for excessive wear.
these are some of the things that come to mind besides pistons/cylinder causing metal debris.
may check fuel pressure and fuel filter for blockage and have the fuel injectors tested for spray pattern/flow tested.
what color are the spark plugs? have you checked / replaced them? hope you get it figured out.

 

[red2blue]

When was the last service done? I'd try some fresh fuel and a set of plugs. If it fired and ran well, then an oil and filter change.

 

[mkov608]

Hi All,
What perplexes me is this: if compression is good and the engine will turn over, does that indicate a trashed engine? It doesn't backfire or blow smoke either. I can't imagine what would be broken in the engine that would warrant a replacement if the engine isn't seized.

Anyway, before I throw tons of money at this, wondered what the community thinks?

Thanks in advance!

No. some wear metal is normal; that's why we use oil filters. I've seen wear metal in mine too after my first season with my skis, but the particles were small. I didn't see any wear metal at the end of my second season.

I agree with Joe; the problem you are describing sounds like a fuel delivery problem, so check the fuel pump pressure. It should be 40-44 PSI.

I've got two of these skis. Bought them from a guy in AZ (fresh water only), and they only had 43 hours on them. One was great, and the other ... well, I call it my Friday ski because I think it was built on a Friday. My problem with poor top end performance and hesitation turned out to be an exhaust leak. I found it when I Sea-Foamed the engine. Let us know what that fuel pump pressure is.

K

 

[monteburns]

OK, to follow up: I went down to the dealer and the mechanic showed me the oil filter. All I can say is wow, it looked like a ton of glitter in every single fold and a bunch in the bottom of the canister. After I saw that we both figured the previous owner got some water in the engine and didn't get it out. So, there you have it. Got a used engine on it's way and will be installed next week. Thanks for all the replies!

 

[red2blue]

Trust is a wonderful thing.

 

[ski-d00]

some small pieces of metal in the oil filter is normal. I've seen them with metal pieces in every pleat of the filter at every filter change and the machine is still running fine 10 years later. my guess is that the oil and filter weren't changed for a long time but that doesn't mean you need a new engine. the glitter you speak of is pretty normal which most people find hard to believe.

did you ever change the spark plugs? they fail constantly and will run just like you describe. I think you have a different problem which you may find out with your new/used engine.

 

[XP 787]

I just changed my oil and there was metal in the filter as well. Ski runs great, but I plan on pulling the filter in 10 hours to inspect.