Challenger won't go above 10mph - how to clear intake debris?

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FlyboyZR1

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One minute my boat was running fine, the next it won't go above 10mph and above 4000rpm makes a loud "whirrrrrrr" noise. It appears to be just the right engine. Tried reversing, switching gears and different rpm's which didn't work. I have the boat in a slip and don't have access to a trailer. Is checking/clearing the intake something I can handle in the water? Any advice?
 
I'm in the exact same scenario as of today with my Speedster. One engine will rev to high heaven but goes nowhere. I hope someone can give us a clue.
 
Sounds like the pump is cavitating because of some debris. It's extremely hard to clear an obstruction in a jet pump of a boat in the water. Your probably going to need a trailer or boat lift to access the pump. Reverseing or varying RPM doesn't usually work. The pump is always spinning in the same direction on a jet boat and never actually goes into neutral or reverse, it's redirecting the water rather than changing the motion of the pump.
 
Sounds like the pump is cavitating because of some debris. It's extremely hard to clear an obstruction in a jet pump of a boat in the water. Your probably going to need a trailer or boat lift to access the pump. Reverseing or varying RPM doesn't usually work. The pump is always spinning in the same direction on a jet boat and never actually goes into neutral or reverse, it's redirecting the water rather than changing the motion of the pump.

Good to know and bummer! Was hoping I could get it cleared without having to remove the boat from the water. I've read on various forums that reversing the boat as fast as possible, killing the engines and applying full forward throttle sometimes works - so I might give that a shot first.
 
Keep in mind that the more you run it with debris in the intake, you are causing wear on the wear ring, with will eventually lead to cavitation.
 
Also, it does not take much to dramatically affect the propuslion. These little bits of treated wood (guessing it was a piece of wood from a dock on the lake) brought my Challenger 210 to a crawl. Idled back to the ramp (7 miles), hauled the boat out and these little bugers were wedged into rack blade of the impeller. Look closely (zoom) at the impeller picture and you will see the wood wedged in there. Used a long pry bar to get them out. Boat ran well afterward, but I replaced the wear rings on both pumps the next week for good measure.

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Wow that's quite amazing two tiny pieces of wood affected the impeller. I'm going to try and get underneath the boat to clear the intake before pulling the boat out of the water. How far is the intake from the back of the boat? Does each engine have its own intake, or do they share one?
 
Two intakes. They are at the back of the boat, but there are intake grates and the ride plate to deal with.
 
Better call Scuba Steve if you can’t get the boat out of the water
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Turns out the culprit of my issue was this piece of wood jammed in the impeller. Got it free and things are back to normal. Two of the front intake grate bolt heads broke off, but it's still held on with the rear bolts so I don't think it's a big deal since the grate is still on tight ... without them it will be easier to remove in the future. Wish there was an easier/quicker way to remove the grates as those two Phillips screws are extremely difficult to remove. Is anything able to pass through the impeller (ie. seaweed), or will it always clog when anything gets sucked in?
IMG_7534.jpg
 
Turns out the culprit of my issue was this piece of wood jammed in the impeller. Got it free and things are back to normal. Two of the front intake grate bolt heads broke off, but it's still held on with the rear bolts so I don't think it's a big deal since the grate is still on tight ... without them it will be easier to remove in the future. Wish there was an easier/quicker way to remove the grates as those two Phillips screws are extremely difficult to remove. Is anything able to pass through the impeller (ie. seaweed), or will it always clog when anything gets sucked in?
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Glad to see you figure it out!. Seaweed would generally be soft enough to get processed through, but if its a lot of seaweed, it can clog.

Earlier you mentioned you hear about reversing your boat as fast as possible then forward as fast as possible to dislodge anything. I would highly suggest you don't do that! For stern boats, yes that works. Jet boats? Not at all. That is because stern boats have gears and, when put in reverse, the propeller will spin in the reverse direction. Jet boats, on the other hand, don't have a real reverse or a gear box, as to why it is traditionally easier to work on jet engines. The driveshaft and impeller on jet boats are connected DIRECTLY to your engine. That means, as the engine spins, so does your impeller at a 1:1 ratio. Your engine spins one direction only, it will not rotate the other way. Because of that, to actually reverse a jet boat, it needs reverse buckets. Since water is forced out the nozzle, those buckets, when in reverse, drop in the path of that jet of water and redirects it back under the boat (and to the side for added steering control). That redirection of thrust is what actually allows a jet boat to reverse. Essentially, regardless of being in forward or reverse, your impeller is rotating in the same direction.

In your case, when driving, your impeller is rotating clockwise when it sucked in that piece of wood. When you go in full reverse, the impeller is still rotating CW, further pushing down on that piece of wood. Lets say instead of a piece of wood, you sucked in a tube rope. The rope would be tightly wound around the drive shaft, if it didn't have a drive shaft guard. A lot of people do unintentionally try freeing it by putting the boat in reverse, not realizing that doing that will actually cause the rope to further tighten around the drive shaft and make things worse.

Best thing to do is just stop, try to get the boat out of the water and work on it that way, otherwise, you may make matter worse. Personally, I had to deal with a brother that wasn't listening and didn't remove a fishing line when I told him too. I started sucking it up and it got caught around the jet pump and quickly shut the engines down. Everyone was telling me to try putting it in reverse to help free it, but I had to explain to them what I told you. If I had done it, it would have been further sucked in to the point that the 1oz weight and hook would have been processed through the impeller and damaged both my wear ring and impeller. Instead, I got in the water, freed up the line from the jet pump and thankful it wasn't sucked all the way through.
 
That's very good information and makes complete sense as to why reversing the boat might make matters worse. What are your thoughts on the "reverse trick" that the majority of jet boaters on other forums swear by? Here's a link below and description of it ... does this work on Seadoo Challengers?

Easy way to clean debris out of your jet pump (without pulling plugs)

Getting stuff stuck in the pump happens with jet boats. Here is a trick that is handy for clearing loose clogs like weeds or loose debris.

1) Put it in reverse, and get the boat moving backward (faster the better)
2) Kill the engines (pulling the lanyard off is the fastest way)
3) Put the throtles into forward (this allows water to be pushed directly into the exposed jet nozzles and force stuff in the tubes back through the grate, or off the grate).
What I do is grab the lanyard with my left hand, put it in reverse with my right hand, get up some speed, yank the lanyard with my left and instantly put it onto forward with my right.....works 95% of the time. The only time it didn't work for me that I recall was when I sucked up a flexible frisbee...and it was lodged hard in the intake grill.
This works great for weeds, sticks etc.

Also, note that these steps are now different for those of you with E-Series Yamaha boats or boats with servo driven buckets that don't move when the engines are off (not sure if this is only an E-Series issue).....Steps for these boats is:
1) Put it in reverse, and get the boat moving backward (faster the better)
2) Put the throtles into forward (this allows water to be pushed directly into the exposed jet nozzles and force stuff in the tubes back through the grate, or off the grate).
3) Quickly Kill the engines (pulling the lanyard off is the fastest way)
 
Welcome and I would highly disagree with essentially all of that. Yamaha or Rotax jet engines all work the same way, in that they only spin one direction, which is what allows them to be compact and need a reverse bucket to begin with. If they could change directions, you wouldn't need a reverse bucket. I highly doubt most of those people on that forum have some background in engineering and mechanical systems. I've been told this "trick" years ago by other jet boat owners, but they didn't know how it worked, nor did they have an understanding in mechanical systems or physics. Even with own dad, he insisted on this trick when he sucked in rope. Tired of arguing with him and told him to go ahead and try it anyways, at which point it didn't do anything and just continued sucking in more rope and tightening it up. Had to drift to shore and jump in the water to cut the rope off and slowly pull it out. And this was with a Yamaha Jet boat, not a SeaDoo. The drive shaft of a SeaDoo has a cover over the drive shaft, above the intake grate, that goes right up to the beginning of the impeller. With that in place, it makes a sucked in rope a lot easier to remove, as nothing is twisting it around.

What those directions sound like is not fixing anything. As I stated before, going backwards doesn't change the directions of the impeller. If it sucked in wood with the impellers going CW and jamming it, going in reverse would just continue forcing the wood against the impeller and wear ring. It's like screwing in a bolt and accidentally over torque and strip the thread and, to fix it, you continue screwing in the bolt the same direction and adding more torque, it just makes things worse. To fix it, it needs to be backed out, same as sucking in a piece of wood. The only way to do that is either reversing the direction of the impeller, which you can't do putting in reverse or with the engine on at all. Or, really the only option, is to get under and physically remove it.

When they say
"Put the throtles into forward (this allows water to be pushed directly into the exposed jet nozzles and force stuff in the tubes back through the grate, or off the grate)."
I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. A jet nozzle forces water out in one direction only. How would going forward, which means water is flowing out, somehow result in water flowing backwards and back out through the grate?? That's a contradiction on the physics of the engine. Even in reverse, the jet nozzle is still processing water and forcing it out the back of the boat. The reverse buckets happen to be dropped in the path of the jet stream of water. The reverse buckets are designed to redirect and bend that water underneath the boat, resulting in an overall force pointed backwards, allowing the boat to go back.

What that trick does is that when a piece of wood is wedged between the impeller near the beginning (closer on the intake grate side), your leading edge of the impeller blade will slice into it, pretty much like a knife, and wear out the end of it. Since your blades aren't really designed as knifes, it will dull and begin rubbing against it to the point it forces the wood to slowly rotate along the edge of the blade. moving it further down the path until it eventually it passed through the entire length of the impeller. And as it moves, it wears out all 4 blades and wears out your wear ring. That tight gap between the impeller and wear ring, needed for optimal efficiency and thrust, is now widened if the wood hasn't damaged the impeller blades. To fix the issue, you need a new wear ring and impeller. If the "trick" was never done, and just went under the boat, you could catch the piece of wood at the beginning of the pathway. May have slightly worn out part of the blade and wear ring, but really shouldn't be as impactful on the performance compared to the entire length of the blade being worn out along with the wear ring.

The best bet this "trick" does is try to dislodge whatever is stuck between the impeller and wear right so it drops down into the center, along the drive shaft, and force out through the gaps between the blades. But doing that may bend lead edges of the blade and potentially cause issues. Additionally, the likelihood of that happening depends on the size, shape, density of the foreign material. I say that because if you look at impellers, you have 2 different numbers. One number represents the angle of the blade coming off the center, while the other reflects the angle near the outer edge. The purpose of this is that, when water is processed, it creates a centripetal effect on the water, forcing it towards the outer edge and out. This is why items really get lodged between the impeller and wear ring. As its sucked in, it would be coming through the center of the stream, but once it encounters the impellers, and water is forced towards the edge, it gets carried along with the water, where it then spins and gets itself wedged. So even then, the "trick" wouldn't help dislodge it. If the foreign item is seaweed, just providing more throttle and increasing the RPM would be fine enough, just because seaweed is so soft and easy to cut through. Upping the RPM would allow the blade to cut through whatever is wedged in there and not thick enough to bend, dull, or damage the impeller blade or wear out the wear ring.

Hopefully this provides some more insight into how jet boats work and to not perform that "trick"
 
anthony-- nice write up people say it works but I won't use a 'trick' on my boat or PWC! I have had items in my jet pumps over the years in both my PWCs and boat the only successful way to remove foreign objects AND minimize the damage is pull the boat out of the water and remove the problem by hand. Now if its as simple as seaweed that makes life easier and most of it can typically be cleaned out in the water by hand and the pump will hopefully expel any remaining grasses with the bulk of it removed from the pump grate.

I have seen MANY people over the years run over a ski rope with their PWC suck it up and continuously use the 'reverse' only to find the rope getting shorter and shorter. I am a firm believer head home on one engine if you can an take care of the issue on land.
 
Thanks @gb387 And yes, by far the best plan of action is to do run on one and manually remove the debris from the other. Im not risking a costly bill listening to the internet.
 
Thanks for the input guys! If this happens again I will plan on shutting down the engines and getting underneath to clear it out and/or pull it out of the water if needed. The reverse trick seems to work for the Yamaha boaters, but I'll refrain from doing it to prevent making things worse.
 
Well it might work occasionally, like the time I sucked up a bleach bottle and it was stuck below the intake grate. I went for a dive on that one as I wanted to see for myself what was going on before I fired it up again.

So, I don't have much faith that reversing and shutting down will clear most clogs but it might work in some cases.

In my seadoo it's usually sticks/twigs wedged on the impeller and for that I can usually get them using my long mechanics finger tool if not then by removing the intake grate.

Most of the time when I've had debris stuck inside a pump it was b/c of operating in too shallow of water although I'm sure there are bodies of water (mud puddles?) where a jet pump will simply clog too often for practical purposes.
 
Another thing I want to point out is if your intake grate is damaged somehow/way there's more of a change it might break off and send a piece into the pump intake. That could get ugly.
 
Thanks @gb387 And yes, by far the best plan of action is to do run on one and manually remove the debris from the other. Im not risking a costly bill listening to the internet.

Don't forget if you're running on one (see towing section of operating manual for detail) you need to shut off the water supply on the other to keep from flooding the non-functional engine with water.
 
Still need to install a valve there, but also going below 15mph is enough, according to the shop manual. I generally stay below 10mph on one.
 
anthonymsaad just schooled anyone that thinks this will work! Should be permanently posted to this section.
Last night, I took my 08 Speedster 200 430hp out for it’s maiden voyage (my first boat). Made the mistake of warming up the engines at the dock on the dirty Delaware River here in Philly. They weren’t running for no more than 3 minutes before sucking up a big thick chunk of plastic (almost the top to a 5 gallon bucket) I tried the conventional OUTBOARD engine “trick” and it didn’t come close to working. If anything I just made it worse. Had to pull the boat out of the water, get it on the trailer and ultimately disassemble the rear drive. That process was relatively easy but a simple inspection of the water intake and the mechanics of it all clearly shows that the “tricks” mentioned above are only going to make the matter worse.

After clearing the drives this morning, I put it all back together and tried for round two of its maiden voyage. Very impressed with the power, the boat really hauls ass! Went about 1 mile downriver at 3/4 throttle, did some tight maneuvering before promptly sucking some twigs and a plastic bottle cap into the intake again!!! It’s always something!

So now I find myself joining this community because an amateur like me really needs a quick education. I haven’t ran this boat for more that 5 minutes at it’s full capabilities before getting myself jammed up again. Had to idle back a mile upriver and trailer it again.

I’ve purchased an “unclog kit” from Harbor Freight (pic attached) and hopefully I can fish this material out without disassembling again. This seems to be the legitimate “trick” for these boats. IMG_6853.JPG

A few questions I have:
Are there intake grates that offer more protection? Basically, I don’t think I can run this boat in the Delaware River unless I can replace the grates with something that has tighter gaps.
Was I operating it wrong? I only did, 3-4 tight turns (not crazy turns).
I’ve attached another picture of my grate, does this grate appear to be stock or after performance type for max intake?
IMG_6854.JPG

I called a few dealerships and nobody seems to service these boats or offer much advice. Can you all recommend an aftermarket grate that will offer better protection? I see PWC’s running this river in packs of 20 all the time. Are their intakes much smaller and have tighter grates with the ability to sift through foreign material better?

Sincerely,
Skipper Tom - Amateur Hour on the Delaware
 
anthonymsaad just schooled anyone that thinks this will work! Should be permanently posted to this section.
Last night, I took my 08 Speedster 200 430hp out for it’s maiden voyage (my first boat). Made the mistake of warming up the engines at the dock on the dirty Delaware River here in Philly. They weren’t running for no more than 3 minutes before sucking up a big thick chunk of plastic (almost the top to a 5 gallon bucket) I tried the conventional OUTBOARD engine “trick” and it didn’t come close to working. If anything I just made it worse. Had to pull the boat out of the water, get it on the trailer and ultimately disassemble the rear drive. That process was relatively easy but a simple inspection of the water intake and the mechanics of it all clearly shows that the “tricks” mentioned above are only going to make the matter worse.
Actually, it depends what you have sucked in there. If you are in a weedy body of water and commonly catch seaweed, the above mentioned "trick" does work most of the time if you do it properly. And no, more throttle does not just push the weeds through. Its clear that anthonymsaad has never tried the method in weeds, so readers should be aware of that. I've done it many times on a speedster and challenger and it saves a long idle back to the dock.
 
Did you even read his posts? It’s extremely in depth and well explained. He talked about how on different occasions this didn’t work.... and think we’re all assuming that these jams are not common weed clogs that you can lightly throttle through, but more extensive ones. I’ll keep this magical trick in mind if I’m ever in weeds but I’m not dogging on my engines/seals/drives very hard in a body of water where floating non-weed material is common. The Delaware is pretty crazy. Mostly logs, branches and recyclable debris. Damn shame all this crap is in the water.

The second time (just cleared it out) it was a 1.5” x 4” piece of wood. About the size of a small cigar. Luckily it was pretty soft and decayed so it didn’t do any damage. In the other drive I found a plastic milk carton top and what looked like a shotgun wad! Haha, welcome to the city! I’m actually pretty surprised that the system didn’t chew the plastic pieces up. They were nowhere near as thick as my large plastic clog from yesterday.

Are the jet systems completely independent of one another in these boats? Like if one drive is jammed will the other work just fine or does the whole system suffer? Like I said, I’m surprised the milk carton top/shotgun wad didn’t get chewed up.

If anyone knows about different types of grates, please let me know. I’ll try again in this crap body of water tomorrow. Hopefully this has just been a run of terrible luck. God, I miss the clean lakes of Michigan!
 
Maybe i missed it, but i saw nothing but don't do it in any situation because the impeller spins only one way and you will cause more damage without pulling out of the water and using manual removal. Obviously, anything more than seaweed will not come out without manual removal though, as explained.
Did you even read his posts? It’s extremely in depth and well explained. He talked about how on different occasions this didn’t work.... and think we’re all assuming that these jams are not common weed clogs that you can lightly throttle through, but more extensive ones. I’ll keep this magical trick in mind if I’m ever in weeds but I’m not dogging on my engines/seals/drives very hard in a body of water where floating non-weed material is common. The Delaware is pretty crazy. Mostly logs, branches and recyclable debris. Damn shame all this crap is in the water.

The second time (just cleared it out) it was a 1.5” x 4” piece of wood. About the size of a small cigar. Luckily it was pretty soft and decayed so it didn’t do any damage. In the other drive I found a plastic milk carton top and what looked like a shotgun wad! Haha, welcome to the city! I’m actually pretty surprised that the system didn’t chew the plastic pieces up. They were nowhere near as thick as my large plastic clog from yesterday.

Are the jet systems completely independent of one another in these boats? Like if one drive is jammed will the other work just fine or does the whole system suffer? Like I said, I’m surprised the milk carton top/shotgun wad didn’t get chewed up.

If anyone knows about different types of grates, please let me know. I’ll try again in this crap body of water tomorrow. Hopefully this has just been a run of terrible luck. God, I miss the clean lakes of Michigan!
 
You're right pvamax, I don't generally operate in weeded areas, but I still have at times. My general though process is that I don't really go above 4,000 RPM within 6ft of water. I have driven through some heavily weeded waters and yes, if there is quite a bit of weeds, then definitely don't apply throttle. But in situations where it there is little weeds or algae, and I keep the RPMs low till I'm clear and don't worry about it, as they're weeds and flex and compress. With blades in a jet pump acting liking a blender, it will cut through them without much of an issue.

If we are talking about weeds that are vertical, i.e. rooted to the ground, I would definitely NOT apply throttle and really drop the RPMs. Yes, the impeller will cut them, but the biggest issue, that I see, is that as the impeller pulls them in, they can unroot them and pull in gravel with them, which is a problem. Technically, there could be an RPM and speed to operate the boat that will cut the weeds without unrooting them, but too difficult to calculate and best done by trial and error, which I don't do. So, on the safe side, just end up going slow till I'm clear.

There are definitely others that have more experience in water full of weeds, so by all means, id listen to them. I'm approaching this from personal experience and an engineering background. If I trailer my boat to a ramp that has a lot of weeds around it, I don't go to it again and try another ramp. But, my best advice to minimize sucking objects in is reading a depth gauge to ensure you're in deep water, where not likely to encounter weeds growing up and avoid shallow water. Even when I beach my boat, I use a combination of a box anchor and beach anchor (can't remember the name), so that my boat never rests on the floor. Sand, gravel, shells, or rocks, doesn't matter and set up my anchors with my engines away from shore.

Additionally, if you do feel like weeds have been ingested and notice a significant increase in resistance, that's probably a good indication something is lodged in there tight. If I were in a situation, and fairly certain it were floating seaweed, in deep water, id apply throttle rather gently. I say that in the sense of quickly revving it up to 2,000-3,000 RPMs more, just to provide enough power to cut through the weeds, but not going to revving it all the way, as i don't want to suck additional material in. And if you do apply throttle, really make sure you're in more than 6ft of water do not suck material off the bottom floor.
 
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