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Bogging and won't make top speed.... Need some help!

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jdanthony

jdanthony

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I think I have a fuel issue,, so here's what I do so far... 02 GTI le , 717 single carb.

Took carbs off, new everything except the pop off cause I don't have a tool. Inside carbs were super clean. Reinstalled

Cleaned fuel filter

Ran on both reg and reserve ( no noticeable difference )

No grey fuel lines (all black)

Compression check 135/135 (getting a little tired I know)

New plugs ( burning really good)

Aftermarket air filter

Got it in the water, set low to 1 turn and high to 0. Set idle in the water , runs great! As soon as I hit the throttle in wants to go but Boggs and won't make top speed. I tried adjusting low and high 1/4 at a time , but the only thing that works is if I pull th choke a little bit it pops right up and runs amazing!
 
jdanthony and I have been communicating about this issue.. The one thing he has not done is the Pop-Off as he does not have the tool for this. Is the Pop-Off something that can cause his issue?
 
Pop off can affect issue for sure. I would go back into carbs and verify pop off and make sure factory size jets are in carb. Always nice to know whats in there from the start.

But if pulling choke makes it better then he is lacking fuel. With aftermarket flame arrestors/filters the highs will need more fuel. I would try to set the high speed needles at 1 turn out from closed and retest. Also keep an eye on plugs. Report readings at each change to carbs.

Make sure fuel system also has no air leaks, fuel/water separator isn't clogged or sucking air into fuel line from the o-ring or a crack, fuel on/off/reserve valve isn't blocked inside etc.

Low compression doesn't help, but at least its matching from cylinder to cylinder. Pop off test gauge is not only used to check and adjust pop off but do carb bleed down test to verify needle and seat stay shut at rest and don't bleed fuel into engine when its off causing a rich no start flooded condition.


Rob
 
Put the stock air filter back on and set the carb back to stock specs. There is no reason to not run the stock air cleaner on that ski and you could end up chasing this all summer. That ski and carb was designed to run with the restriction of the stock air cleaner and you loose the vacuum signal without it. IF you do run that air cleaner you will probably have to change the jetting and the needle and seat.

Also I hope you are running a carb brace with that after market air cleaner if not you will crack the intake manifold.
 
Installing the wrong jets would definitely cause that. What kit was used to rebuild the carb? A real genuine one or a jobber?

Benji.
 
I will check all that!

The rebuild kit is OEM

I'm gonna pull the carb and check the rest, have to pick up a gauge for the pop off.

I'll put the stock air on back on also, never thought of all that

We just got back again from messing around and I'll pull the plugs again too
 
Pulled carbs off, got a gauge to check pop off... It started seeping by around 20 ish and let go about 28-30. I pulled it all apart cause pop off should be 35-40. (That's what book says) ( please give advise on pressure ) but the needle came out and seat,,,, and low and behold the seat was plugged completely. So I'm hoping that was my problem. Did Veryify that stock jets are in it.
 
Well,,, went and tested again... Still sucks... Any ideas? I'm getting super frustrated at this point... :facepalm:
 
Even an OEM kit could have the wrong jets in it in my opinion. What is the precise model of the carbs? Mikuni what?

Benji.
 
Check also your fuel pump pop off pressure and make sure you do not have a leak in your engine tap pressure hose that runs from the engine to your pump valve.
 
They are 40 mm

I did check from engine to carbs, replaced line.

It runs like a top out of the water at factory settings, hooked up to water. So should I start looking further, as in top end? But the thing that's bugging me is it runs amazing if I pull the choke out a bit. Plugs look great.. Etc etc...
 
This might help a bit.

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?79903-Hesitation-between-4500-5000

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?78771-2000-GS-1-4-throttle-hesitation-bog

Basically same engine/carb in my 00 GS.

What I've learned from this issue is that a leaking needle and seat, improperly sealing fuel pump check valves and the anti-blowback valve contribute to this problem.

Another thing that helped clear the pilot circuit out was making an adapter for the carb spray can.
Remove the low speed jet. Insert the straw from the carb cleaner into a piece of 1/8th fuel line and find a way to secure the two together if the straw is too small. I used a few zip ties for mine.
The 1/8 fuel line fit's into the threads of the low speed and holds in in quite good.

I sprayed nearly half the can through there. That helped a bit with the needing of the choke bogg.

If you notice that you can give it throttle up to a certain point and it hesitates when your giving it just a bit more but after the rpm's jump up its good again, Check the anti-blowback valve. If you replaced it with a new one from the kit. That's the reason...

I usually try and blow through that half moon piece and see how much pressure it takes to make that little flap of plastic pop open. If it pop's its too stiff/tight. If it just flutters and allows air to go through without any hesitation, I found that's where it was good.
I've tried bending one of mine just slightly so that when I let it go it sits almost flat but slightly off the surface. It then moves out of the way very easily.


The last thing is the accell pump. spray carb cleaner through the nozzle in the intake and make sure you give it time to blow any crap out of there. I used the last 1/4 of the can for that.

The acell pump cleaning and the blow back valve were cures for a high and mid range problem.


I've tried playing with pop off pressures and I think I got down to 12 psi while troubleshooting this issue.
That was where it was so rich that it made up for all the other issues.

I think in your case there are a few things working against you.
Since you found that the seat was plugged. I wonder where that stuff also got to. (likely pilot circuit)
New carb kit, did you replace the anti-blowback valve?
Did you replace the spring or re-use the one that was in there?
Did you try bypassing the water separator and fuel filter and run a line from REServe directly to the carb?
Is the return line from the carb to the tank plugged?


Since you had an aftermarket filter, do you know if anything else was done to it ?
 
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Pulled everything out at again,

Cleaned a lot! The low speed jet had some crud in it

Anti blow back is new, works like you described

Spring is new

Got plenty of fuel flowing around from the tank

Gonna put it back together again and go test!
 
Did you use a new spring that gave you the right pop off pressure?
usually a new spring is not necessary and its best to keep the old one because it he new kits do not have all the right springs.
 
Yes, do not replace the spring as Mekanix said. I remember that as well as my potential problem from last year.

Mekanix description of the problem is also very accurate of what I had as an issue and 100% it came from the carb because when I replaced it with a new one, the issue went away completely (so I will not know if it was the needle or the spring but it is probably one of the two).

Benji.
 
Before you throw in the towel and spend a crapload of money pull the head and take a pic of what the combustion chambers and piston tops look like.

You might also want to check the rotary valve clearance.
 
True. Compression at 135 is not perfect but still OK as per OP. Rotary valve problem will give you a different issue as I had both. With jet/spring issues, the ski will "bog down" at some point but if you go to WOT from idle, it will still jump to full speed. A rotary valve issue (like timing) will cause you ski to bog down also at a certain speed but you will have to "jerk" the throttle for several seconds (like 30 seconds) before it starts gradually to pick up speed.

Which is the closest to your problem?

Trust me, I have the same model and I had both issues.

Benji.
 
Have you guys heard of the fuel system not holding pressure causing this? Like when you take off the gas cap and it hisses?

Also, pulling the head can I reuse that gasket?
 
Hmmm. Before you open the head, try to be more precise about the "bogging down" part. Read my previous post and the one from Mekanix and please describe exactly the bogging down part and how you do to get around it and get to WOT.

Basically, I believe that it is a carb issue but wfo speedracer also mentioned the rotary valve as a possible cause. The symptoms between both are somewhat similar but not the exactly the same.

Benji.
 
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