another oil question...

[flkeysdude]

Looking @ a 2 ski package...the guy has some extra oil that he has been using in these ski's. Question...can Pennzoil synthetic Marine Oil TC-W3 be safely used in SeaDoo 2-cycle rotax engines...??? Is there a problem lurking here...???

Thanks !

 

[SurfBeat]

There are a myriad of Threads on this site that discuss the issue of the pros and cons of using TCW3 oil in a Rotax engine. In my case, I expended a lot of time the last few months doing my own research on the subject because I had been using Valvoline TCW3 oil for four years after a complete engine rebuild and last month when I had to replace a defective crankshaft, I was told by a mechanic that sold me the CS that although the oil I used did not cause the crankshaft to go bad, (defective CS Web-manufacturing defect) there were signs that my CS bearings were overheating, a problem that MAY have been caused by using a non API TC Low Ash oil.

Now with all that rambling considered, yesterday, a Guru on this site, not this Shade Tree mechanic, made his position very clear on the type (not brand) of oil to use, relying on a few words:

DON'T USE ANY BRAND OF TCW3 OIL IN A PWC THAT HAS A ROTAX ENGINE.

FYI, to be on the safe side and follow the SD Operators Guide, go find a store that peddles ANY brand of API TC rated oil that is LOW ASH, and that should suffice.

In my case, I use Quickslver PWC that is a blend (not 100% synthetic) because my 93 GTX's doesn't have the RAVE.

I hope this info helps.

 

[LouDoo]

Oil

I also use QuickSilver PWC sythetic blend. The local SeaDoo dealer went up to $80.00 gal, and quit carrying synthetic blend. Walmart has the synthetic blend for about $27.00 gal. I have had good results with the QuickSilver.

Here is the procedure I used when I changed oils, I recently posted this in another thread.

Changing Oil

Here's how I do it, I would not recommend this method if you are changing types, ie mineral to synthetic. This method should drian 99+% of the oil.

At the lower end of the oil filter, pinch off the line as close to the filter as possible.
Lay an old towel under that area, remove the lower oil line an let the oil from the filter drain into a margarine tub or whatever you have.

After all the oil is empty change the oil filter and add some new oil, when the oil gets to the end of the filter put your finger over the end of the filter. Unpinch the lower hose and let a little oil from the filter run into it, to get rid of any air bubbles. Reattach the filter to the lower hose and install new cable ties.

Fill the oil tank, you're done.

Lou

 

[SurfBeat]

Big Lou:

In your Thread you mentioned how to get rid of the "bubbles" when changing oil.

Is your method the same as "bleeding the system." Man, if it is, I am home free on my project. I can't believe if is that simple. I thought the procedure would be the same as bleeding brakes in a car.

If all goes well today, now that I put the engine back in the hull, if someone would give me an answer on aligning the engine, I am home free and may be off to the River in a few daze.'

 

[LouDoo]

Changing Oil

It's no really the same as bleeding the system. The way I do it is not to let any air in the lower hose. This actually leaves a little oil in the system, that's why I recommend not to use this method if you are changing types of oil, ie mineral to synthetic, use this method only for changing brands.

Since you have pulled the motor you will probably need to bleed the system, as outlined in the service manual.

Lou

 

[SurfBeat]

I figured that the task would not be that easy, however, when I saw your post I was hopeful.

Thanks for taking the time to promptly respond, I apprecated that.

JG

 

[flkeysdude]

Interesting and informative information...

I haven't seen or heard these ski's run. I've only seen pic's on Craigslist and that's where I noticed the "extra synthetic oil" that was included in the package was not SD but Pennzoil. I checked the Pennzoil website and it seems that it's simply tc w3. The seller says that one of the ski's in the package was flipped over and will run but won't hold an idle while the 2nd one runs fine. Pkg. includes an '02 GTI and a '96 GTX w/double trailer for $4,500.00. Any thoughts on the price for this package...???

 

[roneagan@cfl.rr.com]

Here is MY 2 cents on the oil.. Before I knew better I used TCW-3 in my boat..When it was under heavy load (pulling a skier, or tube) I would sometimes get an overheat alarm.. So I changed he oil back to the seadoo mineral and the problem went away.. Not sure if the oil was the cause, but now I only use quicksilver PWC or the seadoo mineral. Living on the coast in Florida there is plenty of places to find the correct oil..

 

[SurfBeat]

Go online, log onto Blue Book and NADA, then look under the boats sections under both publications and there you will find a general idea what the Doo's are selling for.

The NADA publication is more geographical than Blue Book, and usually sets prices lower than BB, however, by using both you will be in the drivers seat when you begin negotiations with a seller.

A word of caution before you purchase. Put the PWC's in water and run them hard. The darn toys are expensive to repair if you don't have the time and inclination to work on them yourself.

They look so kool, on a trailer when shiny and clean, thus tempting to jump and buy, especially when your babe is by your side rubbing your arm, so if possible, leave the babe at home and hold out purchasing until you can run them on the water of they may turn into a nightmare.

 

[SurfBeat]

One more story about the Doo that flipped over.

If the engine ingested water and it was not taken out, the water may have rusted the bearings in the crankshaft (CS).

An easy way to check for such a problem is to turn the PTO (round wheel at end of engine facing the rear) is to turn the wheel by hand. If it turns easily, then there may be no problem.

Next, pull a spark plug, crank the engine, and see if water expels form the plug hole.

If not water, do a compression check on each cylinder (spark plug holes)

Compression should be between 140 to 150 lbs, maybe a 10-% less, but not less than a 5% difference between each cylinders.

DISCLAIMER: I am only a Shade Tree mechanic and there are many more knowledgeable members on this site than me, i.e, SeaDooScipe, SeaDooya, etc., so, keep my comments in mind when reading my mechanical opinions.

That said, being a lawyer/teacher, I did give you very good advice on how to go about purchasing any PWC.

On that note, it is not practical to test drive the PWC before you purchase, draft a contract that spells out a clear guarantee that the PWC are in top mechanical condition and free from defects.

Often people sell their toys because they lost interest, lost a job, or, in just as many cases, there is a major problem with the PWC, or a perceived major problem that can easily be repaired if time is taken to learn how to perform the task.

I hope you find this Post helpful.

One last thought. If the seller was using a TCW3 oil in a SD, he either was skimping on spending money OR, he is an oil expert.

 

[my787]

Interesting and informative information...

I haven't seen or heard these ski's run. I've only seen pic's on Craigslist and that's where I noticed the "extra synthetic oil" that was included in the package was not SD but Pennzoil. I checked the Pennzoil website and it seems that it's simply tc w3. The seller says that one of the ski's in the package was flipped over and will run but won't hold an idle while the 2nd one runs fine. Pkg. includes an '02 GTI and a '96 GTX w/double trailer for $4,500.00. Any thoughts on the price for this package...???

trade in value for the 02 GTI is $1800 (that doesn't include the trailer). if the GTI isn't running well you SHOULD expect the worst, which would be an engine rebuild. A rebuild will cost you at least $1,000 and that's assuming you can rebuild seadoo engines yourself. The GTX trade in value is $1300. So both seadoo's are valued at 3100, add $300 value on the trailer, a good deal would be $3400-3500. HOWEVER, I wouldn't pay more than $3000 considering the one seadoo got water in the engine and could be ruined.

You are better off spending a little more money for two good running, newer seadoo's. Like suggested earlier, ALWAYS TEST THEM ON THE WATER BEFORE BUYING!!

Also, there is a sticker on my 96 GSX that specially says NO TCW3 oil in the engine. Either use quicksilver fully synthetic or XP synthetic bombadier oil