98 gtx limited starter intermittently works

[Idiotwita elec prob]

I got this ski about 3 months ago and have been working on it off and on as I am a busy man. It started out as I couldn’t turn the engine as it was seized. I found that I would be easier to replace and cheaper as well rather than to repair the one I have. So I got a new motor installed it and got a brand new battery and nothing would come on. Found a blown 15amp battery fuse and replaced it after that all electronics were working. So I then tried to start it and this is where the problem I have started I tried to turn it over and it would turn over and stop and turn over and stop over and over again in different intervals of time but when bypassing the solenoid the starter would turn freely and at a correct constant speed making me think either the button or the solenoid was bad I checked the continuity of the button and it was perfectly fine no problems so then I’d think it was the solenoid so the person I got it from didn’t remember to much about it other than where it was as it has sat since 2017 or 2018 either way it had a solenoid in the rear compartment that I switched it out for and tried it and it has the same problem as the other one making the solenoid most likely not the culprit. I’m lost and mostly out of my league in electronics I’m better with the engine side of things. Can any of you help me cause I got no idea and no one I’ve seen has had this problem. Also just to clarify it does start and run it just doesn’t start right and sound horrible when trying to start.

 

[artr]

If it cranks reliably by shorting across the top of the solenoid then it is probably the solenoid. You said you switched the solenoid with one that came with the ski but that one might be defective also. You can check with a voltmeter if you get a 12V signal on the yellow/red wire that goes to the base of the solenoid when the start button is pressed. If you have that 12V signal then try a new start solenoid.

 

[Idiotwita elec prob]

Another thing I forgot to add is when I put on the lanyard I don’t hear any beeps but it still turns over.

 

[Idiotwita elec prob]

I tried it just a few minutes ago and had 12 Volts to the solenoid but I still find it weird that it destroyed two solenoids in the exact same way because they both did the same thing.

 

[artr]

The 12V that energizes the solenoid needs to be constant as long as your pressing the start button. If it cuts in and out while holding the start button that would cause the starter behavior you described.
Do you know that both of the solenoids you have are good? If the 12V control signal is constant as long as you are pressing the start button then get a new start solenoid.
Also it is not uncommon for the beeper to need replacement after many years. You can test it by removing the wire that connects to the engine temperature sensor (probably on the top of the engine by the spark plugs) and grounding it while the engine is running.

 

[Idiotwita elec prob]

Did a little bit more work recently and I have confidence that it’s not the wiring or the solenoid or the starter I’m very confused on what else could be the problem although I have a suspicion that the connection between the solenoid and the wire from the button may be the problem as everything else works up to that point and past the point.

The 12V that energizes the solenoid needs to be constant as long as you’re pressing the start button. If it cuts in and out while holding the start button that would cause the starter behavior you described.
Do you know that both of the solenoids you have are good? If the 12V control signal is constant as long as you are pressing the start button then get a new start solenoid.
Also it is not uncommon for the beeper to need replacement after many years. You can test it by removing the wire that connects to the engine temperature sensor (probably on the top of the engine by the spark plugs) and grounding it while the engine is running.

 

[artr]

Since you jumpered across the solenoid and it cranks reliably you know it's not the starter or the battery. If you tested for a constant 12V signal into the base of the solenoid while cranking then it is not the button, wiring or MPEM. If both of the solenoids are old, the internal contacts for the 12v to the starter could be corroded or carbon buildup from arcing. That could interrupt the high current flow the starter requires. I would try a brand new solenoid.

 

[Idiotwita elec prob]

Since you jumpered across the solenoid and it cranks reliably you know it's not the starter or the battery. If you tested for a constant 12V signal into the base of the solenoid while cranking then it is not the button, wiring or MPEM. If both of the solenoids are old, the internal contacts for the 12v to the starter could be corroded or carbon buildup from arcing. That could interrupt the high current flow the starter requires. I would try a brand new solenoid.

So I would try a new solenoid but I’ve tested them both and both work fine and if I take of the cable that goes to the starter and press the button and wiggle the connector and wires you hear it click on and off but if you leave it alone it stays on and when I hook the starter back up and feel for click when it’s turning over it clicks on and off just like the starter starts and stops. I think it’s the vibration from the starter shaking the wires breaking and making the connection over and over again although I could be wrong any other insights.

 

[Grim]

So, I had this problem as well and I have the same ski. I chased it for several months until I got lucky and found the problem. The problem was the connections at the the bottom of the coil. There are several wires all bunched together on one screw at the bottom of the coil. Take it all apart clean each wire and put it back together but make sure each wire is spread out and not bunched on top of each other as you tighten the screw, I think what is happening is several of the wires are bunching up and not making a good contact so you get the intermitted cranking.. I also took the wire off the solenoid and cleaned them. making sure all was connected right and tights.
Here is a picture, noticed how I have them all spread out, watch when you tighten it down , they will want to move,.

 

[artr]

if I take of the cable that goes to the starter and press the button and wiggle the connector and wires you hear it click on and off

So you are saying you do not get a constant 12V signal to the base of the solenoid if you wiggle the wire and connector that goes to the base of the solenoid. If that is what you are saying then you could use an ohmmeter to check continuity of that wire and connector. Disconnect from the base of the solenoid and pull off the main plug on the top of the rear electrical box. Test continuity from the pin on the connector that goes to the solenoid base and the pin where that wire comes into the top of the rear electrical box to determine if you can isolate if it is an internal break in the wire or the connection of the wire to the connector pin by moving different parts around. Then you can repair the connection or replace that particular harness.

 

[Idiotwita elec prob]

So, I had this problem as well and I have the same ski. I chased it for several months until I got lucky and found the problem. The problem was the connections at the the bottom of the coil. There are several wires all bunched together on one screw at the bottom of the coil. Take it all apart clean each wire and put it back together but make sure each wire is spread out and not bunched on top of each other as you tighten the screw, I think what is happening is several of the wires are bunching up and not making a good contact so you get the intermitted cranking.. I also took the wire off the solenoid and cleaned them. making sure all was connected right and tights.
Here is a picture, noticed how I have them all spread out, watch when you tighten it down , they will want to move,.

I would agree that’s the problem but the connection are clean and spread apart and the bolt is new.

 

[Idiotwita elec prob]

So you are saying you do not get a constant 12V signal to the base of the solenoid if you wiggle the wire and connector that goes to the base of the solenoid. If that is what you are saying then you could use an ohmmeter to check continuity of that wire and connector. Disconnect from the base of the solenoid and pull off the main plug on the top of the rear electrical box. Test continuity from the pin on the connector that goes to the solenoid base and the pin where that wire comes into the top of the rear electrical box to determine if you can isolate if it is an internal break in the wire or the connection of the wire to the connector pin by moving different parts around. Then you can repair the connection or replace that particular harness.

I have not test to see if I wiggle it volt drops as it is hard to test if I wiggle it and have the pins of the multi meter touching as I am one person and it’s hard to wiggle it keep the pins in place and press the button but I will test to see if any of the wires don’t have proper continuity when wiggled.

 

[Idiotwita elec prob]

Replaced both the solenoid and the connector and cleaned the ground like grim said and had the exact same thing happen any clue what’s the problem because it doesn’t make sense.

 

[artr]

if I take of the cable that goes to the starter and press the button and wiggle the connector and wires you hear it click on and off

Because you reported this above it sounds like the solenoid is either losing the 12V signal on the yellow/red wire or the ground connection on the black wire at the base of the solenoid. You need to determine which connection is being interrupted and where the interruption occurs. You did not say exactly which wires or connectors you wiggled to make that happen or which connector you changed. If you can narrow it down to one wire or connector by trial and error that would be one way to go. If not I think you really need to test the continuity of the yellow-red wire and the black wire that run from the MPEM through the connector at the top of the rear electrical box to the solenoid. That means find a way to connect an ohmmeter on each of those 2 wire runs at least from the 4 pin connector on the top of the rear electrical box to its connection at the base of the solenoid and move things around to determine what is causing the interruption. You could also try cleaning both sides of the 4 pin connector and connector at the base of the solenoid with an electronic contact spray cleaner or a pipe-cleaner soaked in alcohol.

 

[Grim]

Replaced both the solenoid and the connector and cleaned the ground like grim said and had the exact same thing happen any clue what’s the problem because it doesn’t make sense.

Did you happen to test the new solenoid, I bought a new one and it was DOA. The aftermarket stuff is not very good anymore. Can you send us a picture of the inside or your electrical box? Ill compare it to mine to see if anything looks out of place.

 

[Idiotwita elec prob]

I’ll definitely get a picture tomorrow afternoon but I can guarantee that it’s not a solenoid grim as I have been through 3 solenoids that have done the exact same thing. To clarify for artr the wires I wiggled and connector I wiggled were the ones connected to the solenoid. I changed the connector at the base of the solenoid and the solenoid to make sure that neither of them were the problem. This sounds kind of weird but I got a new mower solenoid that has the same specs as the one on the ski but had a different way of connecting the yellow and red and ground wire to the solenoid instead of the weird connector that skidoo uses it’s ring terminals I did this to ensure that it’s neither the solenoid nor the connection on the solenoid. I can say for sure that it has nothing to do with the solenoid connector or the solenoid down to the starter. Also just a thought could a bad computer cause it to not send a constant 12v of power to the yellow red wire at the base of the solenoid causing the solenoid to click on and off.

 

[artr]

The 12V that energizes the solenoid needs to be constant as long as your pressing the start button. If it cuts in and out while holding the start button that would cause the starter behavior you described.

I thought you previously checked that. You can monitor those 2 wires with a voltmeter while the engine is cranking and vibrating. The schematic shows where you can probe them. I would try at the base of the solenoid first and if the 12V is intermittent, then you can work your way back through the 4 pin connector at the top of the rear electrical box and finally at the MPEM connector. If you find it intermittent at the MPEM connector and the connector is making good contact, then it probably is the MPEM.

 

[Idiotwita elec prob]

This Saturday I’m gonna solve all the problems. I have determined that it is wiring and I’m gonna check which part of the wiring it is by bridging the gap from button to bottom of solenoid and after MPEM to the base of the solenoid and so on if I need too.

 

[tobytd]

Google voltage drop test..

 

[Idiotwita elec prob]

Google voltage drop test..

It’s not voltage or wire or anything else I think the computer is I believe corroded inside only giving 10 to 11 volts to the switch then it goes back through the computer losing even more voltage and hence sputtering the starter question is wether or not I want to buy a new computer as they aren’t cheap.

 

[Grim]

I am no electronic expert but I think you should be getting more than 10-11V to switch. Did you see what voltage you had when it was cranking? All you do is put a meter on the battery terminal and crank it over.

I’ll definitely get a picture tomorrow afternoon but I can guarantee that it’s not a solenoid grim as I have been through 3 solenoids that have done the exact same thing. To clarify for artr the wires I wiggled and connector I wiggled were the ones connected to the solenoid. I changed the connector at the base of the solenoid and the solenoid to make sure that neither of them were the problem. This sounds kind of weird but I got a new mower solenoid that has the same specs as the one on the ski but had a different way of connecting the yellow and red and ground wire to the solenoid instead of the weird connector that skidoo uses it’s ring terminals I did this to ensure that it’s neither the solenoid nor the connection on the solenoid. I can say for sure that it has nothing to do with the solenoid connector or the solenoid down to the starter. Also just a thought could a bad computer cause it to not send a constant 12v of power to the yellow red wire at the base of the solenoid causing the solenoid to click on and off.

Got a picture yet? Also I would verify there are no loose /shorts in the three wires going to the bottom of coil. The red wire is on the correct post? It should be on the left post of solenoid with the coil being on left side of solenoid. also double verify the grounds. and check for continuity/resistance on them.
Post back what you have done and we will try and help further.

 

[Idiotwita elec prob]

Yeah it’s supposed to be 12v to the switch but somewhere in the computer it’s causing unwanted resistance and going to the switch and going back through the computer adding more resistance and causing the solenoid to sputter hence causing the starter to sputter. All wires are good and in the right place as it runs and sort of starts. The MPEM is getting power as it comes on when I press the start stop switch if I had it wired wrong it wouldn’t turn on till it turned over and only when it turned over. And ground and power are obviously right as it’s impossible to mix up their is no problems with any of the wires they have all been continuity tested and all were fine and the button if bypassed did the same thing when pressing it. Starter is fine, solenoid is new, button has been tested, wires have been tested for continuity and were fine leaving the only thing left the computer or something that causes the power to the switch to be less than it should in other terms something drawing to much power out side starting system causing the system to have too little power.

 

[Idiotwita elec prob]

Here are some pictures an I’m fairly certain the ski has had a significant amount of water in it before I became owner as I found out recently it didn’t float I hope it does nowand here are some pictures the solenoid is one for a mower be all the same specs and it works just fine.

 

[Grim]

Here are some pictures an I’m fairly certain the ski has had a significant amount of water in it before I became owner as I found out recently it didn’t float I hope it does nowand here are some pictures the solenoid is one for a mower be all the same specs and it works just fine.

I looked at your wiring. Just to be clear, since your solenoid is different than mine, the small red wire is connected to the connector/cable that goes to the battery....correct? Also, I might be being picky but those three wires on the bottom of the coil seems to still be bunched up a lot. if you have time I would separate them more and see what you get. I have attached a picture of my full box, so you can check the other two wires that go into the solenoid to make sure they are correct. Couldn't see where yours went and they have been modified.

To clarify the large red wire on the left goes to battery in my picture

 

[Idiotwita elec prob]

Yeah it’s all the same as yours just had to modify something’s and one of the wires had to be lengthened to actually work.