97 XP No Power/Beep/Spark

[joeop]

So I acquired a 97 xp that looks to be lightly used a few months back that im finally getting around to looking at. Hopefully we can get this thing going this summer. Im usually on the facebook 2 stroke group but i think my issues need a more dedicated post/support. Anyway, here is what is going on.

Insert key on post, nothing works - no gauges, no vts, no beeping and no response from start button.

Did ohm test on the dess post as per the manual and it tests good.

Cleaned up grounds inside the electrical box.

The connector pins on the mpem look to be in good shape, cleaned them anyway. When i was replugging the connector that includes the dess into the mpem i did hear a very faint beep almost like a light dying squeal but only happened once and cant replicate it again.

The engine will turn over by jumping the solenoid but no spark is produced.

This is where im at. Im patient and looking for help on this one.

I dont know what the procedure would be for testing this mpem as it has pins instead of wires. Lets just say thats bad, im wondering if a mpem and ebox from a 97 gtx would work here by wiring it into the harness.

 

[mikidymac]

The MPEM location on the 1997 XP is always getting water dripped on it and seadoo relocated it after that.
It is very common for the MPEM connections on this model to be bad. And no, you can't just start changing MPEM's from other models.

 

[joeop]

The MPEM location on the 1997 XP is always getting water dripped on it and seadoo relocated it after that.
It is very common for the MPEM connections on this model to be bad. And no, you can't just start changing MPEM's from other models.

have had some other discussions and did some other tests. connections look good but the mpem is suspected to be faulty. also seeing some threads of folks hard wiring 97 gtx mpems to 96 xps. im not bothering trying but i wouldnt doubt that it would work. its the same engine.

 

[Ckrawiec]

Let's ASSUME the MPEM is OK......

Electrical issues with older skis are always fun (i.e.->PITA). My advice.....take it slow and methodically and check EVERY wire and connection in that ski....get out the meter and point check each and every wire from connector to connector for continuity. VISUAL checks are NO GOOD, you need to wiggle, jiggle, open and close EVERY contact point. CORROSION is insidious and the slightest bit will give you fits......PATIENCE is the key here....take NOTHING for granted......check,test, double test.

PS: You MUST start with a known GOOD battery. Old skis are nothing without a good battery. Everything you need to do/check should be FREE too.....ALWAYS start with the free stuff!

PSS: I'll take it for granted that you have the RIGHT key for your MPEM as well.....

 

[joeop]

Let's ASSUME the MPEM is OK......

Electrical issues with older skis are always fun (i.e.->PITA). My advice.....take it slow and methodically and check EVERY wire and connection in that ski....get out the meter and point check each and every wire from connector to connector for continuity. VISUAL checks are NO GOOD, you need to wiggle, jiggle, open and close EVERY contact point. CORROSION is insidious and the slightest bit will give you fits......PATIENCE is the key here....take NOTHING for granted......check,test, double test.

PS: You MUST start with a known GOOD battery. Old skis are nothing without a good battery. Everything you need to do/check should be FREE too.....ALWAYS start with the free stuff!

PSS: I'll take it for granted that you have the RIGHT key for your MPEM as well.....

I appreciate the post. Battery is good. I’ve never personally rode the ski before and this is the only key it came with. Regardless of the key I should get some gauge action by pressing the start button five times with the battery in.

 

[mikidymac]

97 GTX and 96 XP’s use similar mpem’s so they can be made to work. The 97 XP went to a sealed integrated mpem and cannot be swapped with another model.

 

[Ckrawiec]

I appreciate the post. Battery is good. I’ve never personally rode the ski before and this is the only key it came with. Regardless of the key I should get some gauge action by pressing the start button five times with the battery in.

YES, pressing the START button ONCE [NO KEY installed} should at least "wake the ski up" - the guages should light up....BUT this assumes you have good electric paths....so BACK TO SQUARE ONE.....check ALL the electric paths (GROUND PATHS TOO!) thoroughly.....a'int no getting around them.....it's painstaking but satisfying and you will become quite acquainted with the skis guts.....KNOWLEDGE acquisition is priceless.

 

[joeop]

Just as a little update. I have 12.8 to the mpem and out of the mpem, im also seeing 12.8 at the magneto plug which someone on fb says is bad. grounds in front ebox have been cleaned. Start/stop switch tests good.

 

[joeop]

Still no beeps, no response from any buttons and completely silent.

 

[Ckrawiec]

OK...is the 15A fuse in the rear electric box good? Did you pull it and clean the contacts? You should have 12V power from battery to MPEM on pin 2-26 (Red/purple wire). You should have 12V power to S/S switch (pin 1 mpem - Yellow/red wire).

Have you checked the 5A & 15A fuses on the MPEM?

I don't believe you are supposed to see any voltage on the magneto plug???? You should have a 6 pin connector - yellow/yellow/yellow sires to magneto, Yellow/white & Black/yellow to pickup coil, Black = ground.

 

[joeop]

OK...is the 15A fuse in the rear electric box good? Did you pull it and clean the contacts? You should have 12V power from battery to MPEM on pin 2-26 (Red/purple wire). You should have 12V power to S/S switch (pin 1 mpem - Yellow/red wire).

Have you checked the 5A & 15A fuses on the MPEM?

I don't believe you are supposed to see any voltage on the magneto plug???? You should have a 6 pin connector - yellow/yellow/yellow sires to magneto, Yellow/white & Black/yellow to pickup coil, Black = ground.

all fuses are good and clean. i am seeing 12v at the red/pur 2-26 connector. no power on pin 1-1 with the #2 connector plugged in.

 

[Ckrawiec]

Hmmmm....the wiring diagram might be a little deceiving......the Yellow/Red wire just shows a "1".....so I can't say 100% that that is Pin 1-1 (it kinda looks like 1-1 goes to the Speed Indicator. SO, check the other pins that are NOT shown as going somewhere else..... 1-9?, 1-23?.

IF you have power to Yellow/red to the S/S button, pressing the button should wake up the guages (that's how my '96 GTX behaves anyway).

The "other" thing that I have always wondered and can't really find a definitive answer about is this.....these MPEMs are supposed to have permanent memory (so that the machine will always recognize it's programmed DESS key)....BUT nothing lasts forever so HOW does that memory persist???. I know computer motherboards have a built in CMOS battery but that doesn't last forever, so how does the the MPEM memory last forever????? Is there a built-in CMOS battery in the MPEM that has given up the ghost?

Are older ski MPEMs obsolete? because even finding older MPEMS would have an old CMOS battery (if in fact they do???).....

 

[artr]

I think the other members here have you on the right track. You have already verified all fuses are intact and you have battery voltage going to the MPEM on pin 2-26. I would try the following:
1) Check the continuity between the battery negative to pin 2-17 on the MPEM. Also check between pin 2-17 and an unpainted point on the engine. You are verifying the MPEM has a good ground connection.
2) disconnect the Start/Stop switch and verify there is continuity between the 2 wires when the switch is depressed and no continuity when it is not pressed. Connect it back up.
3) Look for 12V between pin 1-16 (Purple wire going to VTS gauge) and pin 1-14 (Black wire going to VTS gauge) for approximately 30 seconds after pressing Start button.
If you don't see that, then the MPEM is not trying to wake up the gauges and may be defective. If you could swap it into a running 97 XP (which you probably would have tried by now if you knew of one close by) or bring it to a place that can program it (not to program it but just to see if it talks to the programmer) may be the quickest way to determine if it working.

Note on previous post: Because the memory in MPEMs lasts more than 10 years (shelf life of lithium batteries) I would guess that the memory technology used is the type that retains data even after power is removed. There are various types that do this and most will let you read the data as often as you want but the number of times data can be written is limited. The number of times it can be written may be as high as 100,000 times. Since the key codes and other parameters like timing are written so infrequently, the MPEM memory will probably last longer than the MPEM itself.

 

[Ckrawiec]

I think the other members here have you on the right track. You have already verified all fuses are intact and you have battery voltage going to the MPEM on pin 2-26. I would try the following:
1) Check the continuity between the battery negative to pin 2-17 on the MPEM. Also check between pin 2-17 and an unpainted point on the engine. You are verifying the MPEM has a good ground connection.
2) disconnect the Start/Stop switch and verify there is continuity between the 2 wires when the switch is depressed and no continuity when it is not pressed. Connect it back up.
3) Look for 12V between pin 1-16 (Purple wire going to VTS gauge) and pin 1-14 (Black wire going to VTS gauge) for approximately 30 seconds after pressing Start button.
If you don't see that, then the MPEM is not trying to wake up the gauges and may be defective. If you could swap it into a running 97 XP (which you probably would have tried by now if you knew of one close by) or bring it to a place that can program it (not to program it but just to see if it talks to the programmer) may be the quickest way to determine if it working.

Note on previous post: Because the memory in MPEMs lasts more than 10 years (shelf life of lithium batteries) I would guess that the memory technology used is the type that retains data even after power is removed. There are various types that do this and most will let you read the data as often as you want but the number of times data can be written is limited. The number of times it can be written may be as high as 100,000 times. Since the key codes and other parameters like timing are written so infrequently, the MPEM memory will probably last longer than the MPEM itself.

Very interesting.....was the type of "memory technology" that retains data (literally forever??????) even after power is removed available back in 1996? I can't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday........hahahaha

 

[joeop]

I think the other members here have you on the right track. You have already verified all fuses are intact and you have battery voltage going to the MPEM on pin 2-26. I would try the following:
1) Check the continuity between the battery negative to pin 2-17 on the MPEM. Also check between pin 2-17 and an unpainted point on the engine. You are verifying the MPEM has a good ground connection.
2) disconnect the Start/Stop switch and verify there is continuity between the 2 wires when the switch is depressed and no continuity when it is not pressed. Connect it back up.
3) Look for 12V between pin 1-16 (Purple wire going to VTS gauge) and pin 1-14 (Black wire going to VTS gauge) for approximately 30 seconds after pressing Start button.
If you don't see that, then the MPEM is not trying to wake up the gauges and may be defective. If you could swap it into a running 97 XP (which you probably would have tried by now if you knew of one close by) or bring it to a place that can program it (not to program it but just to see if it talks to the programmer) may be the quickest way to determine if it working.

Note on previous post: Because the memory in MPEMs lasts more than 10 years (shelf life of lithium batteries) I would guess that the memory technology used is the type that retains data even after power is removed. There are various types that do this and most will let you read the data as often as you want but the number of times data can be written is limited. The number of times it can be written may be as high as 100,000 times. Since the key codes and other parameters like timing are written so infrequently, the MPEM memory will probably last longer than the MPEM itself.

sorry about the delay, this is one of many projects im knee deep in. on your step one im not sure if you mean the pin directly on the mpem or the corresponding female connector on the plug. either way, i tested it both ways and im NOT seeing continuity at 2-17. as per the manual this ground wire goes into the black box to the coil post.

 

[joeop]

im at a loss, spent a few more hours probing around with the multimeter. im not seeing any ground/continuity at the coil where these 4 black eye connections go with my other probe on the engine block. any help still appreciated before i send this thing off to the town dump.

 

[artr]

I am not sure how your rear electrical Box is connected to engine ground. Check that pin 2-24 which is the black wire coming from the magnito has continuity with a bare spot on the engine. Then see if pin 2-24 Shorts to pin 2-17 at the MPEM. Maybe that is how your rear electrical Box connects to engine ground
Check continuity between the battery minus terminal and a bare spot on the engine. If you don't have continuity (only a few ohms) there something wrong with the big black cable that goes from battery negative to the starter. Check both ends of the big black cable are clean. The resistance of that cable should only be a couple of ohms. The cable could be corroded internally but look fine from the outside. Also the starter needs to be cleanly and firmly secured to the engine to make a good ground connection.
I'm also not sure on your schematic what is connected on the top that's labelled battery1 and battery2 and power supply. Is there something connected to those inputs?

 

[joeop]

I am not sure how your rear electrical Box is connected to engine ground. Check that pin 2-24 which is the black wire coming from the magnito has continuity with a bare spot on the engine. Then see if pin 2-24 Shorts to pin 2-17 at the MPEM. Maybe that is how your rear electrical Box connects to engine ground
Check continuity between the battery minus terminal and a bare spot on the engine. If you don't have continuity (only a few ohms) there something wrong with the big black cable that goes from battery negative to the starter. Check both ends of the big black cable are clean. The resistance of that cable should only be a couple of ohms. The cable could be corroded internally but look fine from the outside. Also the starter needs to be cleanly and firmly secured to the engine to make a good ground connection.
I'm also not sure on your schematic what is connected on the top that's labelled battery1 and battery2 and power supply. Is there something connected to those inputs?

i ended up running a new ground wire from the battery to the coil just for the heck of it, didnt fix anything. continuity fine on the negative battery cable. starter is tight, i took the neg cable off it and wire brushed the area.

yeah i see those battery1, batter2 and power supply on the schematic, unsure where they go. i think all fingers are pointing at a part out on this one. 500 is just too steep for another 20 something year old mpem thats likely to fail in the near future. might not even fix my issue and it also would need to be programmed for the engine timing. not worth it on this ski im afraid. ugh.

 

[artr]

A couple of last thoughts. As mentioned above you really should not have 12V at the magneto plug. Unplug the connector with the 3 yellow wires that goes to the regulator and see if the 12V on the magneto plug goes away. If it does, is there a way to remove the regulator from the MPEM by unplugging it from the board or is it integrated into the MPEM? See if things change with the regulator removed. Also I know you said there was 12V on pin 2-26 of the MPEM but when you measured it was the negative probe from your meter on pin 2-24 or 2-17 at the MPEM?