97 GTX no start...fuel delivery??

[hitchhiker]

OK...First off...I have a 1997 GTX.

she has a newly rebuilt SBT motor in there BUT it was installed about 2 years ago, only ran it for 10 minutes, and then has sat (ran fine when they last used it). I've replaced the battery and starter relay and gotten her to where she atleast tries to turn over but nothing more than that.

I have replaced all the gray fuel lines, cleaned the selector switch and fuel filter cap, fresh gas and oil and plugs, and thinks thats where I'm at right now.

Now onto the problem...the filter cap is not filling back up with fuel...in other words I'm basically not having fuel delivered out of my tank...only thing I could really find through searching is that some people install a primer??

ANY help would be greatly appreciated!!! Only other thing I can think of is checking the carbs but they were rebuilt with the engine and it hasn't been run...and shes not even getting gas it would seem so that should be first to look at IMO.

Thanks fellas.

 

[hitchhiker]

also, can anyone tell me how the fuel lines are connected to their fuel tanks? Like what order...On mine, looking with the wires coming out at 12'oclock...clockwise it goes...Fuel to Carbs, then Check Valves/Vent lines, then Fuel to Selector Switch (ON), and finally Fuel to Selector Switch (RES)

only two I think have a possibility of being switching are the two to the selector switch...Thanks.

 

[peirek]

I am in the middle of replacing the fuel lines, cleaning carbs, and cleaning the fuel selector valve. On my ski the fuel baffle and fuel valve have markings as to which line goes where.
Fuel Selector Valve: RES, ON, OUT
Fuel Baffle: RES, ON, VENT, RET

The RES and ON connect together
The OUT on the fuel valve goes to the IN (marked with <--) on the fuel filter
The OUT on the fuel filter (marked with -->) goes to the carb
The VENT from the fuel baffle goes to the vent line that exits the hull
The RET on the fuel baffle goes to the carb

Now since I have not reconnected my two carbs I am having difficulty remembering which carb gets the fuel line and which gets the vent. There are many posts on here with very detailed pictures. Also the shop manual will have the info it is just at home.

It sure sounds like something is not connected properly. Verify the pulse connection (from the crankcase) is good to the PTO carb. This is the line that creates the fuel pump action. Good luck

 

[hitchhiker]

Thanks. The valve did have the markings and that wasn't an issue. I didn't notice it on the Baffle though. Where were your markings? I looked briefly but not extremely close so I very well could have over looked!

I looked through the OP Manual and Shop Manual with no such luck of connection order. It just says do reverse of removal...DOH! haha. shoulda known, pull one hose, others might come!

 

[bigbaldbob]

I may be way off. But in another thread a guy installed his pistion wrong. they would not create suction for fuel delivery. Pistion tops have arrow that points toward exhaust.

 

[hitchhiker]

yea, but she was running perfectly before she sat up for two years so I would think that they were installed correctly since she was workin fine.

Appreciate the idea though!

 

[bigbaldbob]

check the diaphram in the carbs
also make sure the tank is venting properly. Pull fuel line from carb does gas flow when you turn selector on/ res. stop flowing when in off position?

 

[hitchhiker]

I might need to double check the venting...should you be able to blow through the check valve that feeds to the outside through the side of the hull? I couldn't when I tried, but wasn't sure what PSI was needed to activate the check valve...

but I will check about the fuel flowing to the carb...when you say pull the fuel line...should I pull the one that feeds directly from the tank to the carb, or the one from the filter cap to the carb?

 

[bigbaldbob]

Yes and no. The check valve in the hull is a positive vent It is set a a high psi. Youd have to blow like a dallas cowboys cheerleader in order to open it. the other vent is set at a lower psi and is negative presure to keep the tank from collapsing. I cleaned both my vents with B 12 and a air compressor. Didnt have a cheerleader nearby.:cheers:

 

[peirek]

The port markings on the fuel baffle are embedded in the molding and are located just above the rubber grommet. A flashlight and mirror would be needed to see them while in the tank.

 

[hitchhiker]

Yes and no. The check valve in the hull is a positive vent It is set a a high psi. Youd have to blow like a dallas cowboys cheerleader in order to open it. the other vent is set at a lower psi and is negative presure to keep the tank from collapsing. I cleaned both my vents with B 12 and a air compressor. Didnt have a cheerleader nearby.:cheers:

HAHA! I'll ask my girlfriend and see what she says :rofl:...the lower psi vent I could force air through so that makes me think that they are good to go.

I'm thinking that the pulling the line fromt he carb isn't going to work though, because the filter cap isn't even filling up and it feeds from that to the carb correct?

IF it doesn't flow out of the hose...where should I go from there?

 

[SLIMCAT]

Fuel delivery

Hi there

When i rebuilt my carbs and changed the lines i also had to get the fuel out of the tank. I premixed some fuel with oil and added it to the intake. With the spark arrester off. It would fire and run on prime, I did this four times and finally it ran on its own. I shut it off and hooked up the water, fired it up, turned on the water and we were good to go.
Unfortunately now after half a season it sudddenly stalls when at idle and is hard to restart. Another trying moment.

Good luck

 

[JJinSC]

It sounds to me like you may have gotten lines swapped at baffle. Start there and check the labels and make sure you have the proper hoses attached to the proper nipples.

 

[bigbaldbob]

OK heres what I did when I had the same problem of priming the fuel lines. VERY DANGEROUS DO NOT ATTEMPT!!!!! I noticed I was not getting fuel to carbs and no fuel was filling in the filter. I loosened the fuel cap took off the fuel line on the carb and used my shop vac to suck till it pulled gas from the tank. After I did this I had no problem getting it started. Be very carefull if you try this the fumes can ignite in the shop vac. Boom goes the shop vac!

 

[hitchhiker]

SLIMCAT...thats the same exact lookin ski I'm working on! haha. Color and all. I'm thinkin more and more I need to just take the carbs off while I'm doing all this and check those filters in there. How hard were they to get to. Seem like they're tucked in there pretty well...

JJinSC...yea, I'm check that this afternoon when I get to my girl's house. Hopefully I can find those markings on the baffle that peirek was telling me about. I'll let you know.

Bigbaldbob...HAHA. atleast I'm gettin some humor from your posts through all these frustration! Instead of shop vac, do you think a hose pump would provide enough suction? I mean...cheerleader and shop vac would do much better I'm sure....haha


Also, for whoever lol....I read somewhere about the fuse going out on the baffle...could this be an issue? or not even consider it until I try and get fuel flowing through my lines first?

Thanks for all the help and ideas fellas!

 

[JJinSC]

The only issue a blown fuse in the baffle should cause is your fuel gauge will not work. If your gauge is not working, it is definitely worthy pulling the baffle out and checking the float, fuse and filter screen while you are verifying hose placements on it's nipples.

Also, if you have not been through the carbs since replacing the fuel line, it would definitely be worth going through and cleaning them completely too. It is not that difficult. Just takes time and care. Be careful to be clean, gentle and to get everything back together correctly. Also, do not use carb cleaner until you get it all apart with no rubber diaphragms, o-rings, etc. left in it. Carb cleaner will eat these up. Also, don't let the carb cleaner get on the outside of the carb or you will be repainting or touching up paint. Spray carb cleaner in all the orifices real good and clean/replace the in-carb filters. Before removing lsa and hsa jet screws, turn them gently to bottom out and count the number of turns. That way you know how to adjust them back when re-installing. Although you may want to start at the factory setting and tune accordingly.

 

[hitchhiker]

Thanks JJ. Yea I figure I'll go ahead and play with the carbs. Might as well since I'll already have done everything else! haha. But in reference to the baffle, the fuel gauge works fine so I guess that's not an issue to worry about. I guess I misread where I thought the baffle was the fuel delivery system.

How hard is it to remove them on the 97 GTX?? That's my main concern...any tips/how-to's would be great! read acouple on other jet ski's but nothing with the GTX

 

[bigbaldbob]

:agree: with the fuse for the baffle.

My problem was I had less that a half tank of fuel, brand new dry fuel lines. I'm not sure the moter can create enough suction to prime a bone dry fuel system. Once you get it primed it does not take that much suctiont to pull fuel. Kind of like syphoning once its going it stays going. Pull the line from carb and use air compressor to blow. with enouge fuel in tank you should hear bubbles in the on and res possiton if your lines are correct on baffle. Make sure you unscrew the gas cap dont wont to overpressure the system.

 

[hitchhiker]

Roger that fellas. the ski should start up even if the carbs need cleaning right? I just wanna get that fuel primed and for her to turn over and know she's got it in her before tackling getting those carbs out...not worried about the cleaning part...just getting them out! haha

 

[hitchhiker]

OK...so got fuel primed through the system and still no start. Did notice that the battery drained itself so...my next steps are..take the battery to autozone or somewhere and get it load tested and clean the carbs!

anyone need pictures of anything in the carbs while i'm in there?? :banghead:

also...poked my head in there and from reading the manual it seemed like there was only one screw holding it in, but looking at it, there seems to be two? anyone with the 787 engine familar with this and can give me some insight??? i'll be tacklin' it tomorrow evening!

Thanks for all the help on everything fellas! Thinkin about takin some detailed pictures throughout the whole process for a 101 fix on all this stuff because "not so knowledged" people do better with PICTURES!!! just like kids like their picture books! :rofl:

 

[JJinSC]

Check out this link. It has links to PDF files with pictures. It is what I went by when I did my carbs. http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?t=3495

 

[peirek]

Hey Hitchhiker. I am in the middle of fuel line replacement, carb cleaning, filter cleaning, fuel baffle repair on my '97 GTX. I have completed the MAG carb and nearly completed the PTO carb as I wait for my filter to soak. One thing to note. The MAG carb HSA was at 0, the PTO carb was at 1/2. The local seadoo service department confirmed in their book this WAS correct. So be sure to check yours but I would recommend these settings. Both the LSA were are 1 1/4.

If you have never had your filters out just wait until you see what is in store for you. It took soaking overnight in some tar/bug remover than another soaking with GOJO hand cleaner to get them clean. I used a qtip carefully inserted into the filter along with a soft bristle tooth brush to get it all cleaned.

Here is a picture (pretty bad picture) of one of my filters.


Let me know if you need some help or run into any questions and we can compare notes.

 

[hitchhiker]

well that sounds fun peirek! haha.

I'm gonna try and start tonight, but I was just told the carbs were rebuilt with the engine but I'm going to assume that with those crappy fuel lines and old fuel and gunk, those filters still need to be cleaned up...oh well...learning experience anyways! JJ, thats what I have downloaded also and will be going by. Thanks! Like I said, the actual cleaning isn't what I'm worried about, just gettin it outta that engine bay! gotta love having inches of space to work with...

 

[bigbaldbob]

I had no problem removing my 787 carbs. used a allen wrench. As for cleaning go buy berrymans b12 spray can ger about 2. There is no other carb cleaner that will come close to the effectiveness of b12. Its some gooooood stuff.

 

[hitchhiker]

sounds good to me bigbaldbob...did you remove the air intake or was it just as easy to unbolt it and slide it out?

Don't mind removing it but I figure the less I gotta take off the better...