96 GTI compression low?

[ashby]

96 GTI - Noob Questions

Hey guys, new guy here. I'm in the process of buying my first PWC. I came across a 96 GTI 3-seater for $500 bucks with a trailer. It's all in good shape so I figure it's a fair price. It has the same story as all of them, hasn't been run in a year, got a boat and no time for it, blah blah blah. Anyways, I haven't officially bought it yet, I just took it for the weekend to make sure everything was ok with it before buying it. Was leaving the house Saturday to go get it, and the guy calls me and tells me he can't find the key.. So I went ahead and got it because I wanted to do compression checks and what not on it anyways. Moving on..

Checked the compression today by jumping the solenoid off. Showing right around 90 PSI on the driveshaft side, and 100 on the Mag side. I haven't found anything solid about compression numbers, so what should these be at? Is this thing due for a rebuild? Pretty sure I could do it myself, but if it was needing to be rebuilt, what would you guys pay for it? Thanks

 

[mikidymac]

With that engine and a good battery and gauge it should be 150psi. Try a second gauge and make sure the battery is fully charged , throttle is held wide open and plug wires are on grounding posts when cranking.

 

[Bnelson]

150 psi is perfect, with a fully charged battery and throttle open while testing.... 120psi and it's time for a rebuild... If it is truly 100 and 90 then I would say it's well past time for a rebuild.... Even at $500 if it's in good shape with trailer I say go for it, but would definitely get him down closer to the $300 mark and let him know the engine is done.


Edit: beat me to it lol

 

[LouDoo]

First of all, where in the US are you located, it makes a difference in the prices. With those compression numbers you will need a rebuild. A fresh engine should be around 150psi, 130-140 is O.K., 120 time for a rebuild. So if you can do the work yourself and assuming it needs nothing more than an motor you're talking 1200-1300 dollars including freight and carb. rebuild, fuel lines etc. So by the time you add in what you pay for the ski, depending where you are it's about a wash.

The good news is with a new motor you'll have a ski you should be able to keep for many years, the bad if you're looking to resell it's not worth the time and trouble.

Lou

 

[Bnelson]

Any reason he can't just do a top end? The numbers are still within 10% of each other.... Depending on his location the trailer alone is worth $300. So if he could do a fresh top end and just carbs he could stay well under the $500 mark with his labor.... And of course that's assuming he can do it all himself.... If you aren't very good with these motors, then I would walk away, because as Lou just stated, if you are not capable of doing the work yourself I would pass, as it can get very expensive very fast

 

[mikidymac]

With any older ski there is a 50-50 chance the crank is good and even inspecting them you just never know. If you are going to flip it just a top end might be ok. If it is something you are going to use and keep for a few seasons now is the time to replace the crank and be done with it. Also remember if the crank does go it usually takes the cases with it and you are out even more money now.

 

[Bnelson]

Anybody have a guess on how many hours out of stock crank? @ Racerxxx

 

[AdamXP800]

On the 717 I've seen skis with 650 hours with the original engine and all

 

[Bnelson]

Was kind of what I was thinking, I know the 787 is a different animal.... But IMHO I see no issue in just doing a top end, that of course is on a ski with known hours.... Any 787 or 951 I would rebuild, but not a 717... Has anyone ever seen a 717 take out a case? I ask that with all humbleness, not trying to start an argument just honestly curious for my own knowledge

 

[AdamXP800]

The 96 Spx and Gti I sold both had well over 500 hours, bought new. They still ran like they did the day we purchased them when we sold them. I've never personally seen a 717 grenade beyond the point of a rebuild. Personally I've never seen a crank let loose on one

 

[manolocross]

The 96 Spx and Gti I sold both had well over 500 hours, bought new. They still ran like they did the day we purchased them when we sold them. I've never personally seen a 717 grenade beyond the point of a rebuild. Personally I've never seen a crank let loose on one

How did you get the hours off those machines??? There is no readout unless with a seadoo handheld programmer or a candoo pro... 500 hours, that's amazing!!!! What oil did you use???? Meow!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ashby]

Wow thanks for all the responses! I'll check the pressures with another gauge befofe I jump to conclusions, but with a rebuild and needing key i'd have to get it really cheap because after what I would would have to put in it I could just get something water ready.

I'm in west TN. The battery im using is off of my two year old mower. Its strong so it's cranking fast.

 

[Bnelson]

Sounds like your on the right path, get it super cheap or walk away

 

[ashby]

The only upside to it would be that I know that it would run for a long time.. But that depends on how cheap I get it.

The labor wouldn't be over my head, especially since I downloaded the factory service manual.

 

[mikidymac]

I bought a very clean low hour 2003 GTI that the crank went through the cases. I have no clue what happened and the owner said that it was running great then just shut off. I had to sleeve the cylinders, recut the head and buy used cases and a factory rebuilt crank.

 

[LouDoo]

I'm on the fence on this one, yes the 717 was one of the most reliable motors that SeaDoo ever used. When you factor in HP and reliability in my opinion the best motor SeaDoo ever used.

That being said like the old saying goes "you pays your money, you takes your chances", I would hate to spend $500.00 for a top end rebuild just to have the bottom end go. I'm OCD with my ski's so if it were my ski I would probably go with the full rebuild.

Lou

 

[ashby]

Talked to the guy today. I didn't mention anything about it needing rebuilding, he was just calling to tell me he hasn't had any luck finding the key. Anyways, he said would take $400 for it since he couldn't find the key. (and I couldn't run it for a test ride)

Sounds like this deal might be getting a little sweeter. Just a quick search rendered that the parts ain't gonna be too terribly expensive, and if I did rebuild it, I would know that I should get many years use out of it.

My next question is, where are good places to get engine parts, and is there certain brands of things that this 717 engine likes better than others?

Also is it possible to just send the MPEM in to get a key programmed for it? The nearest seadoo dealer is around 100 miles away.

 

[LouDoo]

Well, if the seller is being honest, and I think he is and the ski runs it's probably got better compression then what he thinks, regardless it's a good deal at $400. As far as the MPEM goes, remove it and send it to Nick [MENTION=41828]Minnetonka4me[/MENTION], he can program you a new key at a reasonable price, he's also a good source for used and some new parts. As far as new parts just click on "SEA-DOO PARTS" at the top of this page.

The 96GTI is a great all around ski, reliable and easy to work on, and this is a good buy.

Lou

 

[ashby]

Good news, I talked to the guy and told him about the low compression. Got him talked down to $300 bucks.

Going to send the MPEM off to have a new key made for it, pull the oil and fuel tanks out and clean them, new fuel lines, and hopefully I'll have her running soon.. Hoping maybe I can get a few weekends out of it this summer and rebuild it over the winter.

The wife and I started doing some cleaning on it tonight. Got it looking a lot better, but there is still some oily residue I want to get out of the hull.

 

[LouDoo]

The best thing for getting oil out of the hull is Super Clean, the have it a Walmart.

Lou

 

[ashby]

Got all the oily residue out of the hull. Cleaned up pretty good. The wife worked on the seat and got all the mildew off of it.

The gas tank has a few gallons in it, so I plan on pulling it out and dumping it, as well as replacing all the old (gray) fuel lines.
The oil tank has about a gallon of oil in it, and I have no idea what brand, and neither does the previous owner. Should I pull that tank and dump it, or just siphon out what I can and put some new oil in it? I'm not a fan of mixing oil at all, but in order to completely remove it all I'd have to change the lines, and that looks like a job.

 

[ashby]

Got all the oily residue out of the hull. Cleaned up pretty good. The wife worked on the seat and got all the mildew off of it.

The gas tank has a few gallons in it, so I plan on pulling it out and dumping it, as well as replacing all the old (gray) fuel lines.
The oil tank has about a gallon of oil in it, and I have no idea what brand, and neither does the previous owner. Should I pull that tank and dump it, or just siphon out what I can and put some new oil in it? I'm not a fan of mixing oil at all, but in order to completely remove it all I'd have to change the lines, and that looks like a job.

 

[ashby]

Got a good bit of things done today when I got home from work. Pulled the fuel tank, intake, and fuel selector. The fuel in the tank is a golden color-almost as if it was premixed. Weird thing was all the fuel lines pulled from their fittings with ease without even having to cut the clamps. The fuel lines look fairly straight forward to change- 5/16 fuel injection hose, and some new clamps.

My question is about the injection oil. It looks to be clear (or golden) in the lines, but I still have no idea what is in it. The oil tank is empty, so could I just completely clean the tank out, and replace all the lines, and then just run it like normal? Or since the lines are fairly empty as well could I just put a new filter on and fill the tank back up with the oil of my choice, since It really doesn't have a lot in it?

 

[AdamXP800]

How did you get the hours off those machines??? There is no readout unless with a seadoo handheld programmer or a candoo pro... 500 hours, that's amazing!!!! What oil did you use???? Meow!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It was always dealer serviced each year and they would tell me the hours each visit. IIRC the Gti had 568 and the Spx was 520 at their last service. Always ran brp mineral. Back then it was in a white jug with like a purplish label on it.

Pretty sure it looked like this back then

 

[ashby]

Well I got the new key and MPEM back from Nick today and filled it full of ethanol free gas.. After a little hot sauce she started right up and ran like a champ. Going to take it out on the water and see how everything is going. One question though, the oil line on the port side of the engine crankcase isn't filling full like the other side is. Is this normal? Just a return line? I keep coming up dry with all my searches.

Also Nick said this one only had 300 hours on it.. Not bad for $300 bucks and a little labor. I'll get some pictures when I get it out tomorrow.