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587 has hard time starting when warmed up

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mattry

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i have a 94 seadoo xp, the last owner put a 587 engine and pump assembly in the hull. here is the problem, the ski would start up great when I first put it in the water, once the engine warms up and let's say I fall or cut it off and go to restart it , it would just crank. the only way I can get it to start is to mess with the throttle as in giving it gas and release for about 45 seconds until it sputters then it kicks on.. after that it will ride like a dream.. both cylinders are showing 125.
here is what I have done :
1.replaced fuel lines ( they were not gray either)
2.replaced amp regulator
3.cleaned carbs and filters
4.had carb rebuilt
5.replaced choke with primer kit

that's about it... here is what I'm thinking that I have not done yet. coil pack is bad, fuel diaphragm pump is bad... I'm thinking of just hooking up an electric fuel pump that engages when you hit the start button.. what do you think? also where should I put it? as in should I have it hooked to the pulse line, return, or the main.. any help would be great
 
I am sure someone else will chime in with better information and more experience. But I think 125 on each for a 587 is an indication it is time for a top end rebuild; may be as simple as a hone and new rings.
 
thanks for the quick reply, rings and jugs look perfect as well at piston. I have no idea why its showing so low..
 
Unless you are putting the rings under a microscope, and checking their tension... you can't say "The rings look good." They get soft, and loose their sealing edge... and the compression goes low.

As above. It's time for a top-end... BUT.... since you just did a carb rebuild, I'm going to take a guess, and say that you used an aftermarket rebuild kit. The aftermarket diaphragms suck, and they cause the needle and seat to leak when you shut off the engine. When that happens, the engine floods, and makes it hard to restart.



Just a last thought.... if you don't know wants wrong... don't dispute the forum members, and things will go quicker. :cheers:
 
rebuilt the carb again today not using the after market items. still same thing..the rings are good because I replaced those, reason for compression being low is because of a crappy gauge. took it out today to test the carb kit and still same thing. it has to be something electrical, spark showed weak in one, other was strong. replacing coil tomorrow... why would this happen only when warm??.. this ski is about to be brand new when I'm done with it. and probably still do the same thing... also is the gas tank suppose to have a lot of pressure build up? I had to open the tank cap to relive pressure when taking the carb out.. would a bad mpem do this too??. what other mpem can interchange with a 587?
 
What are your high and low needles set at; pop off pressure? What is your compression on the different gauge?

I wonder if the carb needs to to be adjusted. If you have not already done so I would put fresh plugs in after the carb rebuild. For $6 it is worth the new plugs.

Good luck...
 
wearing out starter

Hard starting when Hot?
Symptoms of the RV cover is worn out. Exchange is about $100 at SBT + shipping. The measure proceedure is spelled out in your shop manual. Well worth it. Why wear out your starter prematurely?
Same whether 587 or 657 engine. item #16

http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/seadooforums/Seadoo_oem/Seadoo_PWC.asp?Type=13&A=17&B=6

NO, excessive pressure in tank, is the check valve is bad or clogged in breath line that vents out under the rub rail.
item #21

http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/seadooforums/Seadoo_oem/Seadoo_PWC.asp?Type=13&A=20&B=7

Bills86e
 
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Have you had an opportunity to look at the RV cover?

So you first hit the water and it runs fine, you fall off or cut it off and it is hard to start.

What happens when you put it back on the trailer, does it fire right up? Not sure what that would indicate but I experienced that this weekend with my 92 xp 587.
 
hey sorry for not replying sooner. after riding when I go to the dock before loading it I can start it up no problem (calm water) I was thinking it was also the rv or a bad coil. today I put a brand new seat and needle, clamped all the hoses tight and now I'm gonna take care of that pressure in the tank valve. it might even be vapor locking. ill let you know how it goes in a few hours
 
You need to listen to what DR. HONDA said and take into consideration that the compression may be your problem. Before you go any further check it with a working guage and report the numbers back. Your ski will do this exact same thing if the compression is actually low.
 
you are still getting close at 135 if it has never had a top end job it will need one soon so be prepared. As for your main problem i see you said you rebuilt the carb again so ok did you do it the exact same way you did the other or did you set it all to factory specs. Check your pop off while you are at it there is instructions on how to make a pop off tester in the forum. If i were you i would check the voltage on all connections before you go and replace the coil. It never helps toi just throw parts at a machine you have to go through a diag first and narrow the problem down. check voltage after the coil and report back before you buy one also check it befoe the coil too
 
supposedly I installed the smaller spring of the two I got with the kit, it made things worse when I took it out earlier, took the carb to the dees marine and they said I needed to put the longer 115g spring in, I did that and its holding pressure a lot better then the last one, I have yet to test the POP off...when it comes down to the valves for the tank, is it suppose to let air in or let air out.. before I head to the store to buy everything it would be good to know. thanks
 
took it out today. started up great and strong. let it sit on the trailer in the water running for about 10 min. shut it off then turned it on no problem about 5 minutes later. did this atleast 3 times. then I let it sit longer and all of a sudden it did not want to start, a few times it sputtered as if.it was gonna start as i was cranking but as soon as I stopped cranking it would just die.. checked the spark and the one close to the bow was a vary weak spark to the point where I can hold it in my hand, the other plug towards the rear was very strong... any one have any ideas? :mad:
 
take the plug boot off the wiree that is showing low spark and clip the plug wire back 1/4 inch and reinstall the boot put you plug back in and see if that makes a difference. Its an easy way to find this sort of problem you may have burnt ends and they need clipped off
 
just tried the boot thing, the spark was great when I started it up, I let it run for 20 minutes, shut it off then 10 min later attempted to start it, same thing, no start just keeps cranking, looked at the plug that was giving me issues and now it has weak spark. clipped it again and still weak spark.. I took a look at the coil and it looks in great condition, no cracks or burns.. I also took a look at the rv cover but I'm afraid to take it off, I don't know how to time it if I take it off, someone told me to put my hand over the flame arrestor and feel for a sucking feeling, I did that and I felt a sucking feeling, does that mean its okay or I need to have it replaced?
 
Always put on a new 0 ring after a RV cover is removed.
http://www.shopsbt.com/sea-doo-jet-ski-rotary-valve-parts/RV_Cover.html

A diode in the regulator/rectifier may be bad:
Rectifier
Common ignition problems are having to replace the rectifier/regulator to get it to run good at higher rpm, even though the rectifier/regulator is not a part of the ignition, per se, but if bad it emits electrical noise that will disturb the ignition at higher rpm causing it to spark erratically. It sits inside the front electrical box right next to the CDI/MPEM, is a square module.
The ignition in that model is digital, not analog, it gets power directly from the 12Vdc battery, not the magneto stator. The ignition is triggered by an ignition pickup next to the mag flywheel in the magneto housing. It could be broken or covered with bits of old worn off metal particles from gear teeth off of the starter ring gear on the flywheel. Lot's of things can cause erratic running engines. Some are very simple mistakes like installing non-resistor sparkplugs. This motor needs NGK BR8ES sparkplugs. Not B8ES. Notice the "R" ? That means resistor type sparkplug.
If your looking to test the magneto and regulator/rectifier..........all you need to do is have a cheap, digital multi tester. You can hook your ski up to the hose, start the motor, start the water, then set the meter on 20 VDC or higher, depending on your testers range. Then, put the positive and negative on the battery post. IF all works, you should have anywhere from 13.8 to 14.2 VDC on the battery terminal. You don't have to rev it to 5k for this. If you only get 12 VDC while the ski is running, you got a problem. More than 15VDC (at 5500 rpm) the rectifier/regulator is bad.
 
bill thank you for your response, but I am not having an rpm problem. the problem is that after the engine warms up and I cut it, it has a hard time starting.
 
Just wondering if you spin open the gas cap, are getting a large SPEW of pressure out.
 
if I ride for some time without shutting it off (because if I shut it off it won't want to start ) I will have pressure from the tank. I have tried to start it in the water with the cap off but still same thing hard to start and very weak spark off one plug
 
It means the check valve in the out-breath line that vents under the rub rail is clogged/failed. It should open at 3-5 lbs psi. This pressure puts a change into the needle valve cavity and interupts its normal spring load. The excess gas flows into the lower case, then wetting the *plugs. After awhile, the engine heat evaporates in the wet cylinders, and the engine will re-start. Low manifold pressure has often been mis-diagnosed as the cause of ........... won't start when hot.
 
I may have this problem. When I spin the gas cap I hear a woosh sound. My ski is harder to start when warmed up. I do I fix this?
 
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