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2008 RXT215 lost power. SC Siezed?

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jwalts27

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I was riding my 08 RXT 215 across the lake tonight almost WOT and then lost power very abruptly. tried to restart and sounded like engine seized/metal sound but would barley crank over. I got towed in. Checked my intake grate. OK I am an auto mechanic and I immediatly thought the SC failed or seized. I pulled hose to the impeller and the impeller on SC was very stiff and after a while started to loosen up but was making a grinding sound. Is it possible for the SC to sieze and stall the ski? ski has 125hrs, always change oil, SC has 25 hrs on it since rebuild. I ride it every weekend and has showed no signs of anything. After a few hours I was able to crank the ski over to see if the cooled down impeller would spin more freely but it just barley did. I will pull the housing tomorrow to see what happened. Hopefully the engine is OK. I looked at the impeller with a mirror and I see no pieces missing or damage. Hopefully just the washers or bearings just went south. Any thoughts? Thanks
 
Pull the dipstick and check for metal.

Then you can pull the supercharger and try to spin it and see if there is any binding and make sure all of the pieces are there.

Sorry I cant give too much info I ride a 2stroke lol. The pros will soon chime in though.
 
OK, I pulled the SC and its seized. My fear is that the inner gear on the engine side feels worn out. Where does the SC get its drive from? Looking on the parts diagrams I cant find what drives it.

After looking at it with my angled mirror. It looks like its driven off of the Starter Double Gear which is all chewed up. Do any of you know if the motor has to come out to change that gear or how big of a deal that is?
 
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Ok well it seems like the seized supercharger held the motor back and may have worn that gear. The supercharger is run by the crank but I do not know the exact setup. Obviously the ski has no belts to run the charger so they use the crank. Can you see signs of metal shavings with a mirror in the engine or possibly on the charger itself.

Like I said before I don't know much about the 4tecs just trying to put 2 and 2 together.
 
The rear PTO cover can be removed in the hull but it's a big PITA easier to pull the motor and do it on a stand.

You need to find any missing supercharger pieces new flywheel and inspect both oil pumps for damage. Post a pic of the supercharger it sounds like a bearing failed.
 
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It was definatly bearing failure. Impeller is in good shape, I am worried pieces of the bearing went inside though. Unfortunately no way to start engine and see if it sounds OK. I cant believe they don't use a softer metal to absorb the failure like a softer distributor gear on a hot rod. Oh well. Time to drop some ching. Ill tear it apart in the fall. I have my Kawi for now.
 
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It was definatly bearing failure. Impeller is in good shape, I am worried pieces of the bearing went inside though. Unfortunately no way to start engine and see if it sounds OK. I cant believe they don't use a softer metal to absorb the failure like a softer distributor gear on a hot rod. Oh well. Time to drop some ching. Ill tear it apart in the fall. I have my Kawi for now.

The sc is driven off the flywheel. With a bearing failure...the sc shaft is spinning out of alignment. Chances are the wheel touched down on the housing. Open it up...check the housing...account for any missing pieces of the assembly. Pull the plugs. Inspect hose to tb. With help under the ski...have someone slowly turn prop shaft...then you can carefully touch/inspect every tooth on the flywheel.
 
Thanks. I will do eventually. I'm just ticked off it happened with only 25 hrs on new SC. Oil is changed every season too.
 
Update: Finally got around to yanking the motor. SC bearing seized with only 15 hrs on it (SBT kit). Tore up all the oil pumps and flywheel. Engine cranks and has good compression, hopefully no knocks after all said and done. Hopefully dropping back in next week.
 
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Have a good look at the timing chain and gears if it looks like any debris got caught in there replace the timing chain as well as the oil pumps and flywheel.
 
SC bearing seized with only 15 hrs on it (RIVA kit). Tore up all the oil pumps and flywheel.

I thought you previously said it failed after 25 hrs of operation after you'd rebuilt it? Where'd the other 10 hrs run off to?

So many ways to have one of these things fail I swear... I just finished rebuilding my '06 RXT's supercharger (seal was starting to leak, and it was at 96 hrs already so almost time anyway). Makes me nervous as all get-out reading your post here! I took something like 3 weeks to rebuild mine (yeah I know, I was obsessive and went extremely slow questioning every part and every step of the instructions). Still managed to make a mistake, when I went to put it back in the engine earlier this week noticed it wasn't snugging up flush there was 1/32 or so of gap where there should have been none... and the impeller had not a smidgen of play left in it like it was frozen solid! (There should be a slight amount of movement, from the gear lash.)

Pulled it right back out WITHOUT trying to tighten it down any further, could'a sworn there was a washer on either end of the spacer that goes on the shaft between the bearings, but sure enough a closer look at the instructions only showed a single washer on the side of the spacer next to the inner bearing... arghhh! Pulled it all apart again to get the extra washer off the frickkin shaft and put it back together again (getting A LOT better at it the 2nd time around now!). Put it back into the engine today and this time it went together flush when I tightened the 3 bolts without any problem... impeller has the tiny bit of play in it I expected! Yay!

fyi: Though the instructions call for blue loctite on both shaft nuts, I use blue on the outer acorn nut and RED loctite on that inner nut just for safety sake! Have to heat it a little bit (gently!) with a propane torch to ever get that nut loose again, but I'm OK with that!

fyi: Don't know about you but I don't have a hydraulic press to push the bearings in or out (since I had to take it apart again), so I improvised using my pickup truck hitch and it's heavy duty screw type jack (cleaned both really well 1st of course). Works like a charm! They say not to hammer on these bearings if you don't want them to fail... not saying you did, just saying that's all.

fyi: Used a spent needle (I have animals and 1 had to have some antibiotic injections recently and still had 1 of the needles on hand) to squirt some 4TEC engine oil into the bearings and into the shaft several times (about 1 cap full total) letting it seep down thru the SC overnight before I installed it today!

Lastly, did you have the bearings oriented the right directions? They go in a certain way (bearing shield should face outwards toward the impeller, both bearings). Easy to mess that up too! From your pics I think your spring washers aren't in the same order as mine or the instructions that came with my kit... not sure they're wrong or would have anything to do with the fried bearing, they just don't look the same as mine for some reason. Be sure and check that against a manual or something!

- Michael
 
I thought you previously said it failed after 25 hrs of operation after you'd rebuilt it? Where'd the other 10 hrs run off to?

So many ways to have one of these things fail I swear... I just finished rebuilding my '06 RXT's supercharger (seal was starting to leak, and it was at 96 hrs already so almost time anyway). Makes me nervous as all get-out reading your post here! I took something like 3 weeks to rebuild mine (yeah I know, I was obsessive and went extremely slow questioning every part and every step of the instructions). Still managed to make a mistake, when I went to put it back in the engine earlier this week noticed it wasn't snugging up flush there was 1/32 or so of gap where there should have been none... and the impeller had not a smidgen of play left in it like it was frozen solid! (There should be a slight amount of movement, from the gear lash.)

Pulled it right back out WITHOUT trying to tighten it down any further, could'a sworn there was a washer on either end of the spacer that goes on the shaft between the bearings, but sure enough a closer look at the instructions only showed a single washer on the side of the spacer next to the inner bearing... arghhh! Pulled it all apart again to get the extra washer off the frickkin shaft and put it back together again (getting A LOT better at it the 2nd time around now!). Put it back into the engine today and this time it went together flush when I tightened the 3 bolts without any problem... impeller has the tiny bit of play in it I expected! Yay!

fyi: Though the instructions call for blue loctite on both shaft nuts, I use blue on the outer acorn nut and RED loctite on that inner nut just for safety sake! Have to heat it a little bit (gently!) with a propane torch to ever get that nut loose again, but I'm OK with that!

fyi: Don't know about you but I don't have a hydraulic press to push the bearings in or out (since I had to take it apart again), so I improvised using my pickup truck hitch and it's heavy duty screw type jack (cleaned both really well 1st of course). Works like a charm! They say not to hammer on these bearings if you don't want them to fail... not saying you did, just saying that's all.

fyi: Used a spent needle (I have animals and 1 had to have some antibiotic injections recently and still had 1 of the needles on hand) to squirt some 4TEC engine oil into the bearings and into the shaft several times (about 1 cap full total) letting it seep down thru the SC overnight before I installed it today!

Lastly, did you have the bearings oriented the right directions? They go in a certain way (bearing shield should face outwards toward the impeller, both bearings). Easy to mess that up too! From your pics I think your spring washers aren't in the same order as mine or the instructions that came with my kit... not sure they're wrong or would have anything to do with the fried bearing, they just don't look the same as mine for some reason. Be sure and check that against a manual or something!

- Michael

I must have hit the wrong key. It was 25 hrs on rebuild. All bearings/washers were assembled correctly, junk parts I guess. It was the bearing that failed. I have read that people have seen issues with SBT kit. Anyways I got the motor running last night. Sounds good, no oil light. I will water test it later today probably.
 
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Well I took my RXT out last week for about an hour... 1st time out since I rebuilt my SC last month; took it easy on her just cruised around for awhile. All seemed good though, engine sounded completely normal. Here's hoping mine holds up!

Good luck J!

- Michael
 
Well mine didn't hold up either! 2 hours of run time and I checked the impeller this morning before hooking up to head to the lake (absolutely gorgeous weather here!) and the impeller spins freely dang-it!

So luckily nobody else was going with me, I went to pulling the SC back out again with knots in my stomach wondering how bad it would be... luckily everything was still on the shaft and intact! The main drive gear felt like it had a little slop in it, so knots back in stomach I mounted the SC up on the bracket and clamped it in a vice and took the nut off the back end and started taking parts off carefully (with an old white towel underneath it all)... and the main drive gear is still full of needle bearings! WT? I counted the bearings, all 40 are there and I think that's the correct number (and I see no way any could have escaped anyway there was no gap at all between the drive gear and the slip washers or anywhere else).

So they're burned up, worn down I guess? But why what the heck happened?

So the good news is everything is present and accounted for nothing fell into my engine (the 2 main bearings feel good smooth and tight still). Just at a loss what happened to my needle roller bearings inside the main drive gear... any ideas anyone? They feel oily, but not sure if that oil came thru the SC shaft into the inside of the main drive gear or if it worked it's way into there between the slip washers when everything loosened up....

There is pitting and excessive wear present on 1 side of the main drive gear and the steel slip washer that went against it, as well as the other side of that same slip washer and the spacer that pushes against it (the spacer that the spring washers push against to apply pressure on the slip washers and drive gear). So that's all trashed and the reason the impeller spun easily by fingertip when I checked it this morning.

Now I don't know if I want to try another kit, or just put it up under my carport and save up money for a brand new SC (or X-Charger + injectors perhaps)... I'll do another oil filter and oil change too, once I get a functioning SC back into it. Though no parts or pieces were lost in the engine there is clearly metal particles that were worn off the SC parts for whatever reason. (sigh!)

- Michael
 
I NEVER take away from those that do their own work. I do mine. But when it comes to SCs I am to the point that is simply isn't worth it. Doing the math you save $100 or so. Not worth the gamble to me.

I'd rebuild my own engine before I'd do a SCr. Just to many bad stories.




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It's really not that hard though Joe... I can't find a thing wrong with my installation of this kit, it's got me befuddled.

I re-installed all the needle bearings into my original drive gear (I saved all the original parts and kept them assembled on the original shaft in the correct order even) just to check, and the 40 needle bearings are DEFINITELY smaller than they were originally the original gear has extra space and tons of slop in it with these needle bearings all installed in it and on the original shaft! So they really did wear down, and fast.

The kit shaft oiler hole thru the center of the shaft does go all the way to the oiler hole in the side of the shaft where the needle bearings ride on it, I shown a bright light into it and could see the light inside looking thru the hole in the end of the shaft. So that confirms the engine oil I swore I felt on the needles really was coming in thru the shaft. Yet still they burned right up in no time flat! Arghhh!

All I can figure at this point is the instructions must have omitted the fact that the needle bearings don't come pre-lubed in that little plastic thingy they came in. The way it tells you to install them (using the plastic thingy they come in, you never even touch the needle bearings themselves) completely omits anything about needing to pre-lube them.

So my SeaDoo is just down for the rest of the season while I try to decide what to do about this SC issue now (not to mention needing more $$$ no matter what path I end up taking). I think I got off light, this could have gone so much worse than it did! (Whew!) But it should have gone so much better than it did also so... idk.

This makes me wonder, just how many SeaDoo's are out there being ridden without their SC actually working... I imagine most people never think to take the air intake hose off the SC and check that the impeller isn't free-spinning in there! I waited 2 operating hours before checking mine, and sure didn't expect what I found!!!

-Michael
 
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