2006 Challenger 180 Temp Warning Light

[Boincali]

OK everyone, thank you for being here for each other. This morning I picked up my first ever boat, an 06 Challenger. She looked clean. Engine oil looked clean and smelled good (not burned). Started right up. She had sat in the broker lot for 1 yesr and a half - two years. I drove it to Big Bear and dropped it in the lake.

Started off slow and easy. No more than 2000-2500 RPM. She purred and it went well for about 5 minutes. I got to the middle of the lake and turned around to head back to the dock (this was a test run).

I increased the RPM to 5000-6000 and after two minutes the Temp Warning Light and Warning ring/siren turned on. I immediately took her down to 1500-2000 RPM. After another two minutes the Temp Light went out but the siren continued. I was afraid to stop because what if she would not start again. Made it to the dock with no more Temp Light but the siren was on. I shut her down got the trailer and started her up again to trailer her. No more Temp Light, but I was at just 1500 RPM.

This is my first boat and 5 min into the first run the Temp Light went on. What could this be?

I am thinking thermostat? Temp sensor? Those would be easy and cheap. I did notice when the Lake people disinfected for zebra shells with hot water, the drain plugs had some gunk in them, looked like dirt and seaweed that was two years old? Not sure but it was a black gunk in the drain plugs. What if that gunk was in the supercharger cooler? Or the exhaust manifold?

I gues I do not know what EXACTLY is hot, is it the engine, the exhaust, the supercharger? There is just one light and not sure if there is only one sensor?

Please let me know your thoughts. I hope to get educated before I contact the marina or a mechanic for help. I got a great deal ($6600) where the next closest was 8950 but I would like to minimize the bleeding of green. If money were no issue I would have bought a new one lol. Thanks for any advise, you are all so great!

 

[devonte007]

Unfortunately your boat does not have the digital dash which came in later years. Therefore, there is no way to no exactly what code was being thrown without taking it to the dealership or buying your own candoo pro to connect your computer to the engine computer. There are 2 temp sensors for these engines, 1 for the exhaust cooling and 1 for the engine cooling. two different systems. It is rare for the engine cooling to fail as long as it is at the correct level with antifreeze.

I suspect you have an exhaust cooling problem. Do you have a supercharged engine? If so, your intercooler is also on this cooling circuit, sometimes there are issues with those in a salt water environment. It is possible you picked up some debris in the jet pump area that is clogging the cooling system inlet. Backflush your engine using the proper procedure and see if this solves your problem, never have water on if engine is not running or you will flood the engine. If not we'll need to dig deeper.

How mechanically inclined are you, do you plan on doing all your own maintenance? If so make sure to download a PDF copy of your service manual which should be available to you from this site since you are a premium member. Review the section on the exhaust cooling and I think you will see what needs to be checked.

 

[Boincali]

I suspect you have an exhaust cooling problem. Do you have a supercharged engine? If so, your intercooler is also on this cooling circuit, sometimes there are issues with those in a salt water environment. It is possible you picked up some debris in the jet pump area that is clogging the cooling system inlet. Backflush your engine using the proper procedure and see if this solves your problem, never have water on if engine is not running or you will flood the engine. If not we'll need to dig deeper.

How mechanically inclined are you, do you plan on doing all your own maintenance? If so make sure to download a PDF copy of your service manual which should be available to you from this site since you are a premium member. Review the section on the exhaust cooling and I think you will see what needs to be checked.

Thank you for your reply. It is supercharged and the boat was last used in the ocean. I will try to do (most) of my maintenance as on my cars, I do all my own work and once rebuilt an engine many years ago. I might resort to professional help if it would be reasonable and faster than me doing it. I will backflush according to the manual and see where I land. If it is the supercharger cooling unit and or manifold cooling, does that mean those units will need replacing?

I also noted two other issues. The grates have a button to operate them, opening and closing. They are only in the open position. I have taken some pics.

The bilge pump button, when depressed, does not make any sound. I am cleaning it now and when I press the bilge I do not hear or see any water exiting. I tried with the battery switch on and off and no noise. How can I test the bilge pump?

I have flushed the exhaust water cooling system with the garden hose, turning on the engine first and then the hose second, water flowed well through the jet drive. After a minute I turned off the water and then turned off the engine. So that is done.

I got under the boat and tried to manually push the grates closed. They would only close part way, remaining open about 3 to 4 inches. When I looked in the manual the manual seems confusing as it calls the engin the ICS engine BUT the pictures of the housing and the shape of it indicate it is the VTS engine (for the variable trim system) and not the ICS???? Is the manual wrong or are both of these systems using the same engine?

 

[Eclipse1701d]

Can't help with the grates, but the exhaust can overheat if the holes that feed the water cooling veins on the j-pipe are clogged. You should remove and inspect.

 

[devonte007]

Couple more things about the exhaust temp. issue....

I suspect the circuit is probably clogged somewhere, but it could also be the temp sensor itself; they go bad and it is a common issue. I took a look at your pictures and re-read your original post. It looks like this boat may not have been properly maintained when being used in salt water since the drive shaft is so rusty. Since you may not know the maintenance history of this machine, I would probably start going through the boat piece by piece and doing all the normal maintenance and then inspect everything.

I agree with the previous post, if this boat was not properly flushed after being used in salt water, the 3 tiny water outlet holes that spray water directly into the hot exhaust into the J-pipe could be corroded and or clogged. There could also be other corrosion you can't see from the outside. My point is that the inlet side or the outlet side could be stopped up. You may need to take the J-pipe off and inspect it and the exhaust manifold. Looking inside the system will tell you alot about how the boat was cared for. Kind of a pain in A**, but not having proper cooling can be a serious problem and sink your boat once things start to melt. This post has a good picture of a worst case scenario of a corroded exhaust manifold: http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?69810-Water-leaking-at-exhaust-clamp-for-manifold-Jpipe

The 3 holes are at the end of the j pipe


here is a close up of how they should look

Any idea how many hours on this boat?

Since you flushed, go back out and test. If you still get a temp alarm then it is time to start taking things apart to inspect.

The ICS is just the motor module, common thing for those to fail. Probably not easy to get to but simply replace it. The bilge issue is probably the pump itself too. First test to see that you have 12v power going to the systems, and if you do but the motors don't move then you know they need replacement.

 

[Jcamaro]

This will give you and idea how to fix your intake grate issues.

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?84585-Solutions-for-ICS-System

 

[Boincali]

Thank you for all the great advice. Tomorrow morning I am taking it to the local service shop. They work of seadoo's and said they would give me a diagnostic (I will then know how many hours are on the boat, this model year did not have a timer you could read ... need the candoo system to read it). I am attaching pics of the engine exhaust and supercharger and front water pump areas. I know these are not pics of the manifold and J pipe removed, but I thought I would get the diagnostic to start and go from there. Am I correct in understanding there are two and ony two "propellers" on these boats, one is the impeller that shoots water through the directional jet and the other is an impeller that takes water from where the jet is and sucks it into the front of the engine where it is injected into the supercharger intercooler first then into the exhaust manifold and then into the J pipe and out to the exhaust? Am I correct? The corrosion does not seem bad from these pics, would it be normal to look like this but be totally shot on the inside? Note: the first pic shows the small hose where the water leaves the exhaust manifold and enters the j pipe ... when the motor is running, water seems to "sweat" around this area and steam a bit. Is that normal or is that a sign of something bad?

Please let me know if these pics indicate anything good or bad from your experiences. Thanks again to all!

 

[devonte007]

Your pics don't look bad, but not necessarily great either. There is corrosion/rust in areas on your exhaust that I just don't have. When you open her up and look inside the story will be told....

As far as how the exhaust cooling system works, you are incorrect. The jet pump itself is a pressurized area when the boat is running, so seadoo simply put a hole on the top of this area that is always pressurized to let some of the water up into the exhaust cooling system. In fact, there is so much pressure in the jet pump there are reducer washers to restrict the pressure in the system. Therefore, no separate impeller necessary to circulate the raw water like you would see in conventional boat engines.

When you hook the hose up to your boat and run it out of water you are forcing water backwards and back flushing the system. When the boat is running in the water, water actually exits the garden hose flush tube. If you have a copy of the service manual there are some good diagrams that explain this all better than I can.

wish you luck with the dealer, hope your problems are not too serious and/or expensive.

 

[xintersecty]

Here is a picture of the water cooling system. Look at the RXT picture.



I wish there was a way of flushing the system with out running the engine. Sadly there is not a way.

The water comes into the system via a high pressure takeoff from the jet pump. Here is a picture showing the pump and inlet. If you look closely at the dark circle at black ring that is where the water comes in for cooling.


So from your pictures everything looks good, I beginning to think it's the temp sensor too.

 

[Boincali]

Thank you for the pics. So the jet pump unit you are holding, that is what houses the impeller correct? And the impeller is the only thing spinning, the angled fins in the jet housing your holding are only directional and do not spin? I do see the darker spot with the opening. As for the blue ring, is that what is referred to as the wear ring, and some people replace it with a stainless steel ring? I have read mixed reviews on stainless vs plastic.

 

[xintersecty]

I found a random picture on the Interwebs for demo. The angle fins, non moving, are to get the water going straight. The blue ring is the wear wing. I bought a stainless steel ring for the spark but I would not put one on 4-tec setup because the wear ring actually does wear.

 

[Mudnman]

Did you flush with Salt Terminator or Salt Away? Do you have a flush kit installed on boat to do this?
When I did this my boat ran normally again.I put a water shut off valve on the end of water hose.Flushed it a few minutes shut it off to cool and did it again with another cup of salt away stuff.

 

[Boincali]

Did you flush with Salt Terminator or Salt Away? Do you have a flush kit installed on boat to do this?
When I did this my boat ran normally again.I put a water shut off valve on the end of water hose.Flushed it a few minutes shut it off to cool and did it again with another cup of salt away stuff.

So I bought it and it supposedly sat for a year and a half. The previous owner ran it in salt water. I do not know if they took care to flush after each use. I simply flushed the exhaust with garden hose. When you say you have a "flush kit installed", what exactly is that? I took a 3/4 hose end adapter and screwed that in and attached a 2 ft piece of 2" clear hose and attached the garden hose to that. Is that what a flush kit is? I used the piece of adapter and turned on the engine and then turned on the hose. The water poured out the jet pretty good flow. Inside the engine where the short hose connects from the exhaust manifold to the Jpipe it "sweated" and steamed a very very little bit while engine running. Not sure if that is normal. What do you think?

Should I flush with salt terminator now? Even if the previous owner did not care properly for it? A previous gentleman suggested I take out the manifold and JPipe to inspect internally. I have not done that but took pics from the outside. I did not think it looked corroded from the outside but realize that may be so and the inside may still be shot.

So should I flush with salt terminator? To do so, should I mix it with water in a bucket and get a sump pump to pump it through the exhaust system?

Thanks again!

 

[Jcamaro]

As a fresh/saltwater boat owner, my opinion is that ample flushing with good clean water is just as good as any salt away or this and that.

You may have to flush it repeatedly allowing time between flushing for the engine and carbon seal to cool down as these are not cooled during the flush procedure.

A properly flushed boat will be indistinguishable from one that was used in fresh water only.




This is after 4 seasons of salt water use. It's in better shape than my challenger 180 that only had fresh water use before i got it, but wasn't cleaned after each outing. Just to give you some comparison. Inside the engine compartment I had absolutely 0 rust or discoloration on my exhaust manifold.

 

[Boincali]

Hello. If after I remove these I find corrosion on the little holes, what is my best option - replacement or cleaning or? And if it is replacement, is there a upgrade recommended or how much is an oem j pipe cost?

Should I do the same for the exhause manifold, remove the hoses and see what is happening inside the connector? And if that too is corroded bad, instead of placing on the same oem manifold, is there an upgrade that is recommended? Perhaps a stainless polished manifold? Doe such a thing exist?

I might end up doing it myself. The shop I dropped it off at said they would look at it Monday and now are saying they will look at it tomorrow or Wed. If they dont look at it by tomorrow I will go take it back and do it myself. I should have bought the candoo system before I got the boat but you live and learn.

 

[Eclipse1701d]

Corrosion, in the holes, is not a good sign. The key is to check and see if there is free flow from the holes on top to the bottom. If the holes are plugged, that would indicate a reason for the exhaust to overheat. If they are leaking, you would get water inside the j-pipe, which could in-turn, cause corrosion inside the exhaust manifold. Once the j-pipe is off, you can look into the manifold with a flashlight and check the condition. There should be no corrosion in the exhaust manifold! If water is leaking inside of the j-pipe, it can cause a steam condition, which would hydro-lock your engine, and initially, cause no start/difficult starts. Overtime, this would eventually harm your engine internals.

 

[Mudnman]

Flush kit looks like this http://atlantisenterprises.com/a250...4.html?zenid=70d8b611724dc725048b54f76a52f853
I added a water valve to the end,easier than jumping in and out of boat.
Do an inspection like the guys all have said.My tech friend told me just water wasn't enough for me being in salt.Im glad it was that simple,for me.
For got about the salt away solution cup adaptor that goes on after water valve( on my setup ) google it ,you'll see what I'm talking about.

 

[Boincali]

How can I tell there is free flow? For instance when I flushed the system water was coming out the jet and it seemed like it was doing so unhindered, but I do not know for sure if more could have been coming out.

How can I tell if they are leaking inside the J pipe? What I did notice is the short hose that connects to the exhaust manifold out line to the J pipe in line, at the point of exit at the echaust manifols sweated as the engine ran and the garden hose was flushing the system. At that same point where the exhaust manifold water exits there was some slight steam (at the point where the exhaust manifold has the water out connector). Is that bad?

I tried looking online for stainless steel exhaust manifolds. Couldnt find any. Does such a thing exist?

What about J pipes with larger openings?

 

[Eclipse1701d]

As far as I know, there is no j-pipe with larger holes. You have to physically remove the j-pipe, then use an air compressor to check flow, closing the alternate two holes on each end, while testing. You can also submerge the j-pipe in a tub of water to check for pin holes. If you discover pin holes, replace. If flow is free and good, and the exhaust manifold is corrosion free, inside, time for Candoo and error code checking.

 

[XP 787]

Pull the Jpipe. There are 2 hoses that connect to it, one on the bottom one on the top. plug the bottom hole and pour water in the top hole. You should see a steady stream coming from the 3 small holes in the back. The exhaust temp sensor in the waterbox is also a very common problem. I just had to change mine in my RXP. Got it at autozone using the original Bosch part number.

 

[XP 787]

0280130093 that's the bosch part number. 10 bucks at Autozone. They had to order mine but had it next day. Just make sure that partnumber cross references to your boat. But my ski and your Challenger have the same engines.

 

[go_panthers]

How can I tell there is free flow? For instance when I flushed the system water was coming out the jet and it seemed like it was doing so unhindered, but I do not know for sure if more could have been coming out.

When flushing (following the proper procedure), you should see water coming out of the jet pump and out of the thru-hull engine exhaust port.

 

[Boincali]

This is the only place where I am experiencing "sweating" and very very little steam (where the red circle is showing the exhaust mani water exit to the short hose to the J-pipe). Is this normal? While the engine runs, with garden hose providing flushing water, at this location there is a very slight sweating, or beading of water on the hose connection and steam when it drips onto the manifold below. Please let me know if that is normal or if I need to change the hose or clamp or both? Thanks!

 

[devonte007]

I have no sweating or leaks as you describe on my boat. Maybe some corrosion worked its way between the hose and the fitting? Simple enough to take apart, clean and replace as needed.

 

[xintersecty]

I have no sweating or leaks as you describe on my boat. Maybe some corrosion worked its way between the hose and the fitting? Simple enough to take apart, clean and replace as needed.

Good recommendation. Mine does not sweat there too. In fact it gets hot there pretty quickly.