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2002 GTX DI Fuel pumps
- Thread starter dpcarey98
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Yeah, they sent the white hose with the pump and it is darn close to the correct length. The hose bent only slightly after pushing the the black top on, so I didn't see the need to cut down the nipple.
Yes, actually the wire is from a coat hanger, but a very old one. lol I noticed some of the coat hanger wire I had did bend very easily but this was thicker and more difficult to bend. That said, I think a more springy wire would even be better..
Did you recently order off of Ebay? I just got mine last week so maybe they changed it.
FYI - The guy at Highflow tech support said they were having a "customer" draw up an installation plan to be included with future pumps. He wasn't much help other than that though...
Did you try using the original spring over the hose?
Did you recently order off of Ebay? I just got mine last week so maybe they changed it.
FYI - The guy at Highflow tech support said they were having a "customer" draw up an installation plan to be included with future pumps. He wasn't much help other than that though...
Yes it shipped on 8/15 and arrived on 8/17 just last Friday.
I have been looking at it trying to figure out how I am going to put both clamps on and get it in the base. I have been real busy with work so have not been able to spend much time on it. My plan is to get it finished on Tuesday night.
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Yes, It does fit around the hose but the it appeared the spring had nowhere to "rest" on the fuel pump end of things. The hose clamp on that hose also got in the way so the spring was kind of sitting at an angle. I think maybe their plan was to just have the white hose applying pressure on the pump...?
Here is a picture of the direction I am going with my install, the top piece is threaded into the original pump (just inscrew it) it has 3/8 x 24 threads I think the hose will stay on it with clamps. Then the assembly is similar.
I am looking for a 3/8 -24 X 1/4 fuel barb to screw onto it but having trouble.
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That looks good. Any thoughts on somehow adding the large spring now to add some downwards pressure on the pump?
DooWacka
Active Member
This is the method that I am also using. You select the length of the black hose to make up for the shorter pump.
With this method the "sliding seal" and spring still works. The aluminum sliding-seal carrier is also the spring seat.
I have never found the 3/8 thread barb after a lot of internet searching - I don't think they make one.
I have re-threaded the inside of a female barb, replacing the NPT with 3/8" thread, but there is a lot of modification to the brass fitting, and sealing it is more involved. This custom brass fitting is currently working on a DI for over 20 hours.
However, I think you are right that the hose will stay on the threaded connection, which is much easier.
Although to use the spring, the black hose has to made stiffer.
Otherwise the spring pressure, coupled with the G-forces associated with bouncing around on the water, will overpower the thin white plastic piece that tries to keep the pump centered in the aluminum module reservoir. Once the pump tilts over, the sliding-seal is not straight and leaks, losing the 107psi. So, a more substantial support to replace the white plastic is needed, or a stiffener (metal or plastic?) for the black rubber hose is required, or both. I have used thin sheet metal (cut from a pop can) wrapped several times around the black hose. However, it is wrapped over the top of the Oetiker clamped hose, then using additional worm hose clamps, so it is not very elegant looking.
I like the idea of preserving the function of the foot-valve assembly with the two filters, and also making sure the module/pump inlet is on the bottom of the tank (to have as much fuel capacity as possible).
With this method the "sliding seal" and spring still works. The aluminum sliding-seal carrier is also the spring seat.
I have never found the 3/8 thread barb after a lot of internet searching - I don't think they make one.
I have re-threaded the inside of a female barb, replacing the NPT with 3/8" thread, but there is a lot of modification to the brass fitting, and sealing it is more involved. This custom brass fitting is currently working on a DI for over 20 hours.
However, I think you are right that the hose will stay on the threaded connection, which is much easier.
Although to use the spring, the black hose has to made stiffer.
Otherwise the spring pressure, coupled with the G-forces associated with bouncing around on the water, will overpower the thin white plastic piece that tries to keep the pump centered in the aluminum module reservoir. Once the pump tilts over, the sliding-seal is not straight and leaks, losing the 107psi. So, a more substantial support to replace the white plastic is needed, or a stiffener (metal or plastic?) for the black rubber hose is required, or both. I have used thin sheet metal (cut from a pop can) wrapped several times around the black hose. However, it is wrapped over the top of the Oetiker clamped hose, then using additional worm hose clamps, so it is not very elegant looking.
I like the idea of preserving the function of the foot-valve assembly with the two filters, and also making sure the module/pump inlet is on the bottom of the tank (to have as much fuel capacity as possible).
Here is what I came up with for a final asembly, put it in tonight started right up. Pump is much quiter, will get it out on the lake this week.
I found the 3/8 -24 FF coupler(union) and the 3/8 -24X1/4 fuel barb online. I drilled out the center of the threads on the original top peice to match up to the flair end. This made the assembly really strong verticaly. The ends touch inside the fuel line coupler. Plus being able to use the sliding OEM connection with the spring. The wires are just long enouph if you cut them off right at the original motor. I just enlarged the hole in the plastic sheet then centered the motor fits snug just like the original.
Dave
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DooWacka
Active Member
That looks great Dave!
The parts bag you show is for the union, but you had to buy the barb fitting separate?
What is the source for the parts, and could you provide a link?
I would think the union would be fairly easy to find, but the barbed 3/8" fitting is special.
I don't understand your statement - "I drilled out the center of the threads on the original top piece to match up to the flair end."
Could you explain that, for example what is the "top piece", and the "flair end"?
The plastic sheet (motor support) hole is offset from center, and was made for the axial (inlet & outlet) OEM pump.
So, since the new pump ports are not axial (they are offset from the center) did you have to flip the plastic piece over to get the proper fit?
This is in addition to enlarging the hole.
Your method looks very clean and elegant, so I'm trying to get some more information to do it myself.
The parts bag you show is for the union, but you had to buy the barb fitting separate?
What is the source for the parts, and could you provide a link?
I would think the union would be fairly easy to find, but the barbed 3/8" fitting is special.
I don't understand your statement - "I drilled out the center of the threads on the original top piece to match up to the flair end."
Could you explain that, for example what is the "top piece", and the "flair end"?
The plastic sheet (motor support) hole is offset from center, and was made for the axial (inlet & outlet) OEM pump.
So, since the new pump ports are not axial (they are offset from the center) did you have to flip the plastic piece over to get the proper fit?
This is in addition to enlarging the hole.
Your method looks very clean and elegant, so I'm trying to get some more information to do it myself.
Barb
http://www.airpartsplus.net/search.aspx?find=air+398
Union
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/search-91031832.html
The sliding piece from the original pump comes with 3/8 -24 threads but is not made for a flair fitting. I took this end to the drill press and put a flair to the inside of it so the flair fittings fit together better.
I am sure that since this pump is off center that the original plastic sheet is turned over with the after market pump to keep it centered. You can see how one edge is thicker (wider) then the other see photo #1 back two posts.
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That looks good! Much better now that you can use the original spring and sliding section. One question though, did your pump come with a new "flat" filter that sits just below the rubber grommet? Mine didn't and I had to clean and re-use the old one. It looks like you now have your filter held in with rivets or screws??
Interesting, my kit came with some other weird looking filter that would not fit into the bottom plate. And I got a white hose with it.. HighFlow really needs to get their act together. I even emailed the guy and he said that was "the way it comes"....
I guess time will tell if these fixes last for the long term. I have about 8 hours on my seadoo and she is still running strong! :thumbsup:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/380448844382?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
This is the kit I purchased it shows the correct filters, and a white hose (mine came with the fuel line).
This kit shows different filters. Do not buy this one.
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...otors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr
This is the kit I purchased it shows the correct filters, and a white hose (mine came with the fuel line).
This kit shows different filters. Do not buy this one.
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...otors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr
DooWacka
Active Member
I can find the union at local auto parts stores and some hardware stores.
However, they all call it a 3/16" Inv flare union because that is the size of the tubing.
Apparently this supplier is one of the few that calls it by the thread size (3/8" -24). So, I picked one up at True Value Hardware for $0.99 and saved the $7 shipping from speedway motors. I see now what you were talking about drilling the aluminum OE part to better mate with the flare inside the union, I just thought it was a threaded tube.
The "rubber" hose fuel line that is used for the pump is 5/16" ID, so the 1/4" barbed fitting shown in your link is way to loose. I looked on the "airpartsplus" website, where you found the barb, and they have no 5/16" barbs. So, it looks like we still don't have a source for that elusive part.
If you have enough downward force and a very tight hose clamp on the 1/4" barbed connection it probably won't come off, but it may lose quite a bit of pressure, and you need 107psi.
If we can't find the 5/16" barb version, I will go back to my 5/16" barb x 1/8" FPT, and just re-thread the 1/8 female PT to 3/8" -24 since they are very close. This method eliminates the need for the union.
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It fits snug enough no where loose like you think, I do not believe it will go anywhere with the clamp and the downward pressure.
lamajama
Well-Known Member
OK stupid question time....I know you can take the DI into a dealer and they will do a test etc to see if the fuel pump is working
correctly - but the stupid question is - is there a time frame that these things should be preemptively replaced eg at "x" number of hours
for example? Much of what is built today is crap and the manuf know the part(s) will fail after so much usage as they are essentially designed to break down. (Ok that may sound harsh...but you get my drift I'm sure...).
I know it sounds stupid but if these pumps are notorious for failing after eg "200 hours" then if I replace them before that time frame I
could prevent a fail situation. It may sound stupid to spend the money when the pump is working but....... and yes I do know that
Monday the pump is working and Tuesday it quits. Impossible to predict but with all the experience in here I wonder if there is a consensus on the life of these pumps. I suspect not but thought I'd brighten someone's day asking this question....
correctly - but the stupid question is - is there a time frame that these things should be preemptively replaced eg at "x" number of hours
for example? Much of what is built today is crap and the manuf know the part(s) will fail after so much usage as they are essentially designed to break down. (Ok that may sound harsh...but you get my drift I'm sure...).
I know it sounds stupid but if these pumps are notorious for failing after eg "200 hours" then if I replace them before that time frame I
could prevent a fail situation. It may sound stupid to spend the money when the pump is working but....... and yes I do know that
Monday the pump is working and Tuesday it quits. Impossible to predict but with all the experience in here I wonder if there is a consensus on the life of these pumps. I suspect not but thought I'd brighten someone's day asking this question....
OK stupid question time....I know you can take the DI into a dealer and they will do a test etc to see if the fuel pump is working
correctly - but the stupid question is - is there a time frame that these things should be preemptively replaced eg at "x" number of hours
for example? Much of what is built today is crap and the manuf know the part(s) will fail after so much usage as they are essentially designed to break down. (Ok that may sound harsh...but you get my drift I'm sure...).
I know it sounds stupid but if these pumps are notorious for failing after eg "200 hours" then if I replace them before that time frame I
could prevent a fail situation. It may sound stupid to spend the money when the pump is working but....... and yes I do know that
Monday the pump is working and Tuesday it quits. Impossible to predict but with all the experience in here I wonder if there is a consensus on the life of these pumps. I suspect not but thought I'd brighten someone's day asking this question....
I'm not sure of the time frame for failures but I am sure it varies widely from machine to machine. For example, my friends 2002 DI pump went bad at almost 200 hours, and my 2003 DI pump was going bad at 77 hours. Niether one of ours just completely quit, they caused the machine to run intermittantly. His would die and then start working again fine for an hour or so. When mine started to fail it wouldn't let me go over 40MPH for the first 10 mins. Then it would run ok for awhile. IMO, I would say keep running it until it dies.
I would be curious though on how many hours others had on their machines when the pump started to fail??
87 Hours on mine, It sat for the last two years so that might have been part of the problem. 2002 GTX DI.
It would only run on the hose, as soon as I put it in the water it would die. Pull it back up on the trailer it would be hard to start but would start then die when backed into the water.
It would only run on the hose, as soon as I put it in the water it would die. Pull it back up on the trailer it would be hard to start but would start then die when backed into the water.
DooWacka
Active Member
I have four 2001 GTX DI and the fuel pump on each failed at 273, 300, 276, and 210 hours, respectively.
My friend at the local dealership said he has seen them in for fuel pump problems as early as around 100 hours.
The OE pump is a roller-vane pump and I think any water in the fuel can corrode those close metal tolerances.
I believe the Walbro pump is a gerotor type, although I have never had one apart to verify.
The "High Flow Performance" pump is described as a "composite vane-impeller design" that does not corrode.
I sure hope that lack of corrosion will be a great help, and I sure like their Lifetime Warranty.
My friend at the local dealership said he has seen them in for fuel pump problems as early as around 100 hours.
The OE pump is a roller-vane pump and I think any water in the fuel can corrode those close metal tolerances.
I believe the Walbro pump is a gerotor type, although I have never had one apart to verify.
The "High Flow Performance" pump is described as a "composite vane-impeller design" that does not corrode.
I sure hope that lack of corrosion will be a great help, and I sure like their Lifetime Warranty.
lamajama
Well-Known Member
DooWacka, since you've got four DI's for experience - have you had any rectifier problems? Mine just went on one of my 2002 DI's and
on another thread a member said RFI (and DI's then) are known for this. He also had a great suggestion to replace the OEM one with
one made for a 4tec as they were stronger and would last a long time. Just curious.
on another thread a member said RFI (and DI's then) are known for this. He also had a great suggestion to replace the OEM one with
one made for a 4tec as they were stronger and would last a long time. Just curious.
DooWacka
Active Member
I am surprised that I have only had to replace 3 Rectifier/Regulators, since it is quite often a problem on these units.
I always have a couple of new ones along just in case. You can now find after market rec/regs online for about $50, which is much better than the $145 I paid for the first one I had to buy. I heard about the 4tec conversion, and I may try it sometime, but I can get the OE style rec/reg part for so cheap, it may only be when they can no longer perform for a reasonable time.
When I first purchased these four units used, a Seadoo dealership mechanic friend told me they replace a lot of rectifiers because people let the battery get to low. If you make the system fully recharge a low battery, it is apparently hard on the rec/reg. Since the electrical system slowly drains the battery when not in use, I installed marine grade cutoff switches at the battery. Then I always recharge the battery with a regular charger before use. These switches may have saved me having to replace more rectifiers.
The weakness of the rec/reg is why I am concerned about these replacement fuel pumps we are using. These pumps draw between 9 to 12A compared to the OE pump only drawing 4A. So the rec/reg will be working fairly hard all the time. We will have to see how long the rec/regs last under these conditions. Or, worse yet, does it cause problems with the stator?
I always have a couple of new ones along just in case. You can now find after market rec/regs online for about $50, which is much better than the $145 I paid for the first one I had to buy. I heard about the 4tec conversion, and I may try it sometime, but I can get the OE style rec/reg part for so cheap, it may only be when they can no longer perform for a reasonable time.
When I first purchased these four units used, a Seadoo dealership mechanic friend told me they replace a lot of rectifiers because people let the battery get to low. If you make the system fully recharge a low battery, it is apparently hard on the rec/reg. Since the electrical system slowly drains the battery when not in use, I installed marine grade cutoff switches at the battery. Then I always recharge the battery with a regular charger before use. These switches may have saved me having to replace more rectifiers.
The weakness of the rec/reg is why I am concerned about these replacement fuel pumps we are using. These pumps draw between 9 to 12A compared to the OE pump only drawing 4A. So the rec/reg will be working fairly hard all the time. We will have to see how long the rec/regs last under these conditions. Or, worse yet, does it cause problems with the stator?
I just replaced my fuel pump with the hiflow inline.. i left the rubber and the washer i nthe bottom though.. hope that wont cause too many issues..
I did have a bit of a problem with the pump/filter lining up on the bottom as stock, but was bale to bend the rubber hose slightly the compensate for the misaligment..
I did have a bit of a problem with the pump/filter lining up on the bottom as stock, but was bale to bend the rubber hose slightly the compensate for the misaligment..
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