1997 gtx. Tips after sitting for years?

[MendonMafia]

To give you an idea how tight, you'll easily bend or break 1/2" tools. An impact won't budge it either, actually does nothing more than just tear up the splines, so I wouldn't recommend it. The 2 engine rebuilds I did for my skis each time required me to hold the crankshaft in a massive floor vice, using a 3/4" breaker bar impact reinforced tools and a 5 foot cheater bar to get enough leverage. I had couple people on the shop floor convinced I was turning it the wrong way until it popped loose.

I did my rebuilds getting new reman cranks, some people get by not replacing it, but the bearings do start to get noisy and the inner crank seals go bad, so while you got it out why not replace it. It's about $300 from SBT to get another crankshaft.

I tried and failed with my 1/2 breaker bar and 4 ft extension. But i also realized i could get the bracket off without removing the PTO flywheel.

Ended up shearing two of the bolt heads.off in the block though so now i.have another challenge on my hands lol.

When it does come time to rebuild can i remove the crank without removing the PTO flywheel?

Is there any way to repair a broken motor mount? Both of my rear rubber bushings separated from the lower metal bracket that bolts to the hull. I was thinking about gluing them down then drilling though them and using though bolts of some kind to hold them together. Im skeptical a new mount wont just do the same thing as mine, considering there appears to be only adhesive force holding them together.

 

[mikidymac]

No. You have to buy new motor mounts.

A lot of heat will really help with removing the PTO.

 

[GGuillot]

Ended up shearing two of the bolt heads.off in the block though so now i.have another challenge on my hands lol.

When it does come time to rebuild can i remove the crank without removing the PTO flywheel?

A preview of what to come, you'll likely break bolts in other places trying to get the motor apart. Must have been a salt water ski with all the corrosion on it. Yes, you can remove the crank without removing the PTO, but you'll need to eventually get it off if you do a core swap.

 

[MendonMafia]

No. You have to buy new motor mounts.

A lot of heat will really help with removing the PTO.

I heard heat will ruin the crank seals. Obviously at some point they will burn, but can I use a torch and not ruin the crank seals?

I got used mounts on the way but it seems they were adhered to begin with from the factory. Why cant they just be readhered? Three trough bolts would certainly be stronger than any adhesive bonding by itself. I'll try to figure this out so that once my "new" mounts let go I can have another set that will be much tougher. I suppose I'll need some kind of flat head bolt and nut on the other side. The nut may be tough. But I might be able to screw into the rubber too instead of through bolts, we'll see.

A preview of what to come, you'll likely break bolts in other places trying to get the motor apart. Must have been a salt water ski with all the corrosion on it. Yes, you can remove the crank without removing the PTO, but you'll need to eventually get it off if you do a core swap.

Yes it was certainly a salt water machine and that is where it will spend the rest of its life with me.

The swappers won't accept a core with a pto flywheel on it? I can get a used pto flywheel for a reasonable price and don't mine "donating" it if I cant get it off.

 

[GGuillot]

The swappers won't accept a core with a pto flywheel on it?

I'm not sure, you'd need to contact them, I sent my cranks in to SBT with it off. Like Mikidymac mentioned heat will help remove it. You can buy new seal/gasket sets, which you'll need, so it shouldn't be a concern if it gets melted.

 

[MendonMafia]

I can't remove the two of the five m8 20mm stainless bolts broken off in the block that secure the engine mounting bracket plate. My cobalt bits aren't even making a dent to get a screw extractor into the end. I don't have a welder so I can't weld a nut on.

Until I pull the engine I dont think I'll be able to remove them.

Fortunately the center and end bolts came out so I should have even and dispersed pressure using just 3 bolts. Does anyone know if I can get by using 3 bolts instead of 5? I can get three class 10.9 zinc coated bolts in place of the 5 ss screws? The zinc should have less galvanic reaction with the alumnium block so they should be less likely to get stuck again and they should be about 25% stronger than the factory a2 70 bolts but just wondering if anyone has done this and know if they will break or not. I'm also considering using titanium bolts but the class 10.9 should be stronger. I may also use some adhesive between the mounting bracket and the block to add a bit more stability until I pull the engine for a rebuild.

It seems that the factory used blue loctite and lock washers on these bolts. I plan to use antiseize and lock washers so they wont be so tough to remove. Is there somewhere I can get the torque specs for these bolts?

Progress update: motor mounts are here and a new alumnium lock nut for the reverse cable. I plan to install these tomorrow after the clear coat dries on the lock nut. I also recieved my materials for an alignment tool so I will be making that tomorrow.

 

[GGuillot]

Is there somewhere I can get the torque specs for these bolts?

Service Manual can be downloaded at SeaDoo Manuals - FREE PDF Download!.

Does anyone know if I can get by using 3 bolts instead of 5?

No, why would any of us run our skis with only 3 of the 5 bolts securing the plate?

 

[MendonMafia]

Service Manual can be downloaded at SeaDoo Manuals - FREE PDF Download!.



No, why would any of us run our skis with only 3 of the 5 bolts securing the plate?

Thanks for sharing that!

I was able to get the broken bolts out with a little help from my father. However, it seems possible that someone else may have broken these bolts off and didn't have anyone to help them extract them.

According to my math it seems that 5 bolts should be about 50% stronger than the single bolts in the each mount, making the mount bolts the weakest point, or based on what ive seen in my ski the mount itself is the weak point. In general, shear strength is 60% of tensile strength and with the added friction between the plate and engine block, especially if adhesive is used, then that should provide a similar (about 10% less without accounting for friction) level of "strength" using 3 bolts in the block relative to the strength of both single bolts in each mount.

Regardless, I'm going to be using antiseize imstwad of thread lock and I'm using class 12.9 bolts instead of stainless. Im sure they will rust but hopefully the threads stay clean so i dont run into this when I finally get around to rebuilding the engine.

 

[MendonMafia]

Almost ready for the water! Lift is 90% done. Engine is aligned. But I found a leak in one of the head pipe freeze plugs. Gonna patch it up today and get it in the water.
However, I noticed my analog tach doesn't work. The info center works (needs new polarizer but works enough that I could set the idle) so i assume it has power. Any ideas what could be wrong with the tach? Not sure if Speedo works or not yet

 

[MendonMafia]

Got it in the water and it didnt sink or die out on my way home. Didnt take it over 3000 rpm because i just wanted to get it home from the launch to my lift which is all no wake zone. It was hard to start in the water which I presume is from the low compression. I put some restore in the oil resivior and the cylinders so ill see if that works over time. Next time I'll take it out and get the revs up for a while and hopefully pass some oil through it.

The speedo does work. Any ideas how to diagnose the broken tach?

 

[GGuillot]

Any ideas how to diagnose the broken tach?

You'd need to open the hood and remove the black cover to find the plugs going to the tach. Check for 12 volt power on the pur/blk plug. It might be daisy chained off the info gauge, is that working? Since it's a salt water ski some of those plugs under there might just have some corrosion causing the issue.

 

[MendonMafia]

You'd need to open the hood and remove the black cover to find the plugs going to the tach. Check for 12 volt power on the pur/blk plug. It might be daisy chained off the info gauge, is that working? Since it's a salt water ski some of those plugs under there might just have some corrosion causing the issue.

Thanks! My info gauge and speedo work. Info needs new polarizer but it does work, i can read (barely) the very top of it. My buzzer also does not work, not sure if that could be related?

 

[GGuillot]

My buzzer also does not work, not sure if that could be related?

Unrelated, the buzzer dead is common, I had to replace it on both of my two skis. It unplugs under the steering, you could try and jump 12 volts to it just to make sure on the connection part. Floyd Bell makes an OEM replacement, or you can get the Radio Shack 273-0068 which I've had good luck with.

 

[mikidymac]

Unrelated, the buzzer dead is common, I had to replace it on both of my two skis. It unplugs under the steering, you could try and jump 12 volts to it just to make sure on the connection part. Floyd Bell makes an OEM replacement, or you can get the Radio Shack 273-0068 which I've had good luck with.

I just found out that WSM makes the beepers now but they want $50 for them, What the Heck!

 

[GGuillot]

I just found out that WSM makes the beepers now but they want $50 for them, What the Heck!

Did floyd bell stop making it? I noticed even on ebay a used OEM is high also, not many under $25. It's a stupid buzzer it really shouldn't cost that much..

 

[mikidymac]

Did floyd bell stop making it? I noticed even on ebay a used OEM is high also, not many under $25. It's a stupid buzzer it really shouldn't cost that much..

Floyd Bell still makes and sells them for $17.95, model SP-1136.

 

[MendonMafia]

Thanks a lot guys. Hopefully it doesn't Hurricane this weekend so I can take it out for a spin and try to diagnose these issues

 

[MendonMafia]

I ended up going with a new OEM style from EBAY for $25 shipped. the RS one was about $15 everywhere I looked so figured it was worth it for the OEM one. I also ordered some gameboy polarizers for $7 shipped that will hopefully work to fix my info gauge. I will see if i can find any issues with the dial tach while im in there. these parts are all not expected until next month though :/

But I had it out on the water a few days ago and got it up to 52mph according to the dial speedo. Not sure how accurate it is but im quite happy with that considering my compression readings and its age. It certainly felt pretty fast. I might try retorquing my head bolts to see if that will help compression at all, unless this is a bad idea. I know it will break any loctite but as a test it might be ok? could i remove the bolts and reapply loctite? I imagine the restore oil will not have much of an effect (if any) until at least a full tank of gas has been put through it. By my calculations that should be roughly 0.3 gallons of oil, assuming an average oiling of 50:1

 

[MendonMafia]

Update, tried to take it out on the water Saturday and it wouldn't start. Took it out of the water, changed the plugs and charged the battery for a bit and it fired up after a few tries.

Went to ride today and it wouldn't start in the water but started out of the water and I lowered it into the water to ride. Went out and had it up to 54 at the start of the ride. By the end (about 30 min) ot was struggling to do 50 and after I pulled it out of the water it wouldn't rev past about 4k rpm when flushing it with the hose. Pulled the plugs and they were a bit dirty and pretty black. I'm hoping the restore oil is just causing fouling but does this sound like it could be something else?

 

[GGuillot]

I'm hoping the restore oil is just causing fouling but does this sound like it could be something else?

Hesitating at 4K could be a rectifier issue, ski acts weird when this goes bad, do a voltage ck at idle and revving with a multi meter, at the battery and see what your getting. At idle, 13.5 volts +- .5 is what you should see.

Difficult to say what's causing your issue, typically carbs and fuel system are most of the problems. You never really gave a clear answer if you rebuilt the carbs with genuine oem kits and checked the pop off.

Like I was saying earlier in your thread, need to be detailed and through on this, these skis can be sensitive to the fuel system. No leaks where it's pulling in air at the fuel selector or fuel strainer oring, or it can't pull the fuel to the carbs....or it runs lean. The carbs don't work right with aftermarket components in them, must be OEM. Checking the pop off psi is a critical step, it tells you if the needle/seat is holding, otherwise it'll dump fuel in at times when not needed and run rich.

 

[MendonMafia]

My guess based on what you mentioned is the rectifier is bad. My ski wasn't charging above 12.8V on the trailer at idle around 3k rpm. I read elsewhere that the voltage can fluctuate though and that there weren't specific voltages for the charging circuit. Something to do with the stator I think.

My fuel system seems good. I wouldn't expect a sudden change in performance to be from the carbs. It seems electrical in nature. I'll try a new rectifier

 

[MendonMafia]

Went to test the rectifier again and now everything seems fine. Charging at 13.3 volts from 3000rpm up to 6000. Tested it on my lift so I couldn't test below 3000rpm. But now I realized I can't rev the engine past about 6000rpm out of the water. So better than 4000 but I see it should be limited to 7200rpm. So it probably is my carb after all. I was looking for a pop off spec in the manual but I only found pressure ranges for a given spring rate.

On the positive side, my polarizer and beeper arrived and have been installed and are working. Still need to mount the info center but I tested it and I can read it much better now, despite the screen still looking sun damaged after removing the old polarizer. However the gas gauge does not display at all. Does the gas gauge only show when the engine is running? Is my sending unit most likely bad?

Still gotta get some diagnostics from the tach but visually everything looks fine.

Fyi for anyone that wants to change their polarizer in a 1997 gtx info center is a great resource on this forum but it lacks critical information that a novice jetski owner like myself would have benefit from knowing beforehand. First, you have to undo all the electrical connectors going to the info center and it leaves bout 5 feet of wire hanging from the gauge. Not sure if you need to, but I removed the covering over the gauge cluster. This cover is extremely brittle and it is screwed into the hood and the gauge cluster. I cracked my cover because I didn't realize how brittle it was and before I knew the cover was screwed to the gauge cluster I thought it may have just pulled off, big mistake. Also all the tabs that hold the the cover to the hood (the bits the screws thread into) were broken on my cover so I epoxied all of them back on and patched the crack I made. The old polarizer may peel off in multiple layers. Keep peeling and cleaning until you reach glass. I also added some desiccant in the info center housing to hopefully prevent fogging after being exposed to humid air.

 

[mikidymac]

Don’t worry about reving it out of the water. Running out of the water tells you absolutely nothing other than it runs.

 

[MendonMafia]

Don’t worry about reving it out of the water. Running out of the water tells you absolutely nothing other than it runs.

Does the engine somehow know it's not in the water and lowers the rev limiter? I've worked on many older engines (not as many 2 strokes but a few anyways) and they all rev out with no load besides two Chrysler's (2000 300m and 1998 intrepid) which both lower the rev limit when in park.

 

[mikidymac]

There is no load on the engine so it will spin to full rpm easily with no resistance. Don't worry how it rev's on the trailer.