03 Utopia M2 Jet Drive 250 - runs fine, after 20mins bogs and then dies

[vigalass]

2003 Utopia 205, EFI Jet Drive 250HP. Engine Serial # OE411231

At cold start the boat fires up like new. Has new plugs. Run amazing at 5600RPM and about 46mph for about 20mins. Then without hearing any beeping or alarms, the boat will bog down and then die over the course of about 5 seconds. Not an immediate shut off like losing spark, but more like constricted on fuel. Then it won't start while its hot. I was towed back to the dock and tried to start it again and it fired right up after 30mins. So I took it out again to replicate and it and sure a $hit it ran great and stranded me again after 20mins. I let it cool and after 25mins it started again and I drove it back to the dock.

I would think if I was overheating I'd get an alarm, but i get no alarms. I think my alarm works becuase when i turn the key to position one I hear the alarm buzz while the fuel pump cycles. No alarms at all. I have not put a IR thermometer to it to see how hot it is when it dies. I need to do that but it's very hot to the touch up on the flywheel.

I feel it has to be electrical. It's like the boat hits a certain temp then robs me of spark or fuel.

Here is what I've validated is working condition:
1) spark plugs are new and run great
2) plug wires are good and have continuity
3) tether switch is not the problem
4) confirmed low pressure fuel pump is pumping
5) confirmed high pressure fuel pump is pumping.

Appreciate your help with my mystery.

Victor

 

[dblackstone]

Test the temp sensors

outlines how to do it in shop manual

 

[vigalass]

thanks bud.

 

[Tim75]

After you run it hard, and it dies, IMMEDIATELY check the trigger coils. Need an ohm-meter. Takes about 2 minutes. It could be failing from heat. Unfortunately, there are other things that could heat-fail.

Do you have fuel pressure gauge you can leave connected? Lose fuel pressure, engine dies.

Did not see any mention of fuel filters being checked...... Could be fuel starvation.

 

[vigalass]

Tim. I have a obtained an IR Thermometer and OHMS meter. I'll run it out tomorrow and see if when it shuts down what the temperature is. I ran it in the dock for 15mins at idle and and none of the cylinders got over 135 degrees. Exhaust water to the expansion was a 90 degrees. It seems to be working.

This is what the manual says for checking coil drivers. Is this right?


Thanks for your input.

One last thing. I'm worried my alarm buzzer doesn't work. I tried to ground out the water separator today with the ignition in "on" position to see if it rang a buzzer. Got nothing. Anybody know where the actual alarm device is located so I can give it voltage and see if it buzzes?

 

[dblackstone]

Alarm device should be under console near fuse block.

 

[vigalass]

Tim, I appreciate your input. Here is an update. HOpe you can offer some more insights.

1) checked resistance on coil drivers. Fine. All right on or within 10% variance to manual
2) checked the lift pump and filter, and low pressure pump to ensure flow. They did. I did not take the pump out of the VST. When I removed the fuel like coming from the pump in the VST it had a lot of fuel, flow and pressure.
3) put pressure gauges on the fuel and air. The delta between the two is 10. When running the fuel is about 91 and the air at 81. When the motor dies i have zero air and about 5 psi of fuel.
4) took the boat out. Ran it at idle and 4k rpm for 12mins then it dies. I monitored the engine temp at idle, full out and after full out and it never exceeded 135 degrees. I've ruled out thermal shut down.
5) at 12mins in the motor just sputtered a couple times then died. The motor temp was about 130 degrees when it died. After a few tries it started about 20mins later. I does start like it starving for fuel when it restarts. Does have 91 PSI of fuel rule out a fuel delivery problem? I'm wondering about vapor lock.



I'm starting to think I may have created this problem. The boat did not have this problem before I changed the plugs. To get to the port side bottom plug I loosened the fuel rail and pulled it out about 2 to 3 inches to make room for my fat hands. That port side rail has both fuel and air regulator on it. Perhaps I messed those up by pulling off the rail and reinstalling the rail?

This is the plug I'm running. Is this okay? IZFR5G 5887. Motor is 2002 250 DFI.

Thanks guys.

 

[Tim75]

It seems you have the 250 Opti engine. Not real familiar with that. Again, have you checked the trigger base?
Not sure you can get vapor lock on FI engine. Can you check fuel pressure while running to make sure that pump is not failing?

Are you getting water out of the pee hole?
Use the recommended spark plug only.

 

[vigalass]

I was indeed monitoring fuel pressure while dirving it. It was very steady at 91 until the motor began to stumble and then fuel pressure dropped accordingly. Hard to tell if the fuel pressure change caused the motor to shut down or vice verse. The fuel pressure falls when the motor shuts down.

Trigger base is something I'm not familiar with. I've searched the 250 optimax service manual for "trigger" and it only hits on "trigger signal". Is there another way to describe trigger base? Or can you tell me the location?

Thx.

 

[Tim75]

I was indeed monitoring fuel pressure while dirving it. It was very steady at 91 until the motor began to stumble and then fuel pressure dropped accordingly. Hard to tell if the fuel pressure change caused the motor to shut down or vice verse. The fuel pressure falls when the motor shuts down.

Trigger base is something I'm not familiar with. I've searched the 250 optimax service manual for "trigger" and it only hits on "trigger signal". Is there another way to describe trigger base? Or can you tell me the location?

Thx.

Maybe timing base or ignition timer.

 

[Tim75]

Back to fuel pump
Put a volt meter on the pump power wires and test again. If the voltage falls, you have narrowed down suspects. Monitor pressure, too. If voltage stays up, but pressure falls when engine dies, it seems you have a bad pump.

 

[vigalass]

Thank you. Will do on the pump voltage.

I think now I understand your trigger.... I think you're pointing me to the crank trigger.

Thanks.

 

[vigalass]

Tim - the shop manual says I should achieve 90 PSI with cranking the motor for 15 seconds. If the motor stops, like on a car, should that full pressure remain for some time? Mine is dropping to 5 psi in about 1 sec. So I have a fast leak that maybe the pump cannot keep up with.

 

[vigalass]

Tim and Ryon and Dblackstone -many thanks for the inputs and providing clues.

I took the VST apart, tested resistance and voltage of all three pumps were great. The guy who had this boat before me, last year, must have been maticulous. There was not a single spec of dirt or varnish. All 3 pump operated great.

So after recompiling the VST I decided to go retrace my steps on the plug changes. WHen I did the spark plugs, to get the bottom right #6 plug I pulled the port fuel rail out a few inches. When retracing all the leads I noticed that the connector for the number 2 injector was pinched between the fuel rail and the head. I pulled it out and it was very very smooshed. Not having another I was able to reshape the connector and plug lead enough to get the contacts back together. Buttoned it up and now it works. Like it never happened.

The good news is that I'll drive the rest of the season comfortable knowing that all the spring work is done and it's in great shape. And I'll have a spare temp sensor to boot.

Many thanks guys. I literally could not get anyone to work on this boat. Without your help this was dead in the water.

Keep up the great work.

 

[Tim75]

I love cheap repairs!
How does it run after 20 minutes?

 

[vigalass]

well hell. I claimed a premature victory. After the day I pulled the fuel rail off and noticed the pinched injector connector, after assembly it ran great for a 20mins trip. Then great for a 45mins trip. Then it bogged again and died on me. Would not start until after 30mins of cooling. I have a new temp sensor on hand. I've ordered 6 inline spark testers so I can see what happens to spark when it gets hot and dies on the water. I'll report then.

I starting to wonder if the ECU is failing under heat. IT can't be a coil. No way all 6 coils go bad at once under heat. one coil is not enough to keep the boat from starting.

I can't find a mechanic during this season that will work on this. So I guess I'll just start replacing parts in order:

1) temp sensor
2) MAF sensor
3) suggestions?

 

[vigalass]

Interesting post from Seadoosnipe 2010 on the temp sensor not playing a large role until the motor hits 95F, then if it were defective it could lean out the motor and thus cause thermal shut down. Although I don't get overheat alarms and my engine heat is not over 135F. I think the alarm is at 165F. Anyway, good read. Something to try.

As for the way the 240 EFI engine uses the temperature sensor. It's necessary to have this in working condition because the Port temperature sensor provides the ECM (electronic control module) with the information to control the fuel enrichment during warm up. The ECM is always receiving info from the sensor, but stops enrichment when engine temperature reaches 90*F. So, if the sensor is faulty, and the engine leans out while at lower speeds, then the ECM may be leaning out the engine, causing it to run hot.

 

[vigalass]

documenting the outcome. So after validating spark via inline spark testers, changing port temp sensor, crank positions sensor, low pressure and lift pumps, and plugs, it now runs. In the end i'm not sure what fixed it. When I was putting the last upgrade, the lift pump, when I turned the key to prime it i heard my alarm been make a very lame beep. It was a sketchy .25 beep. Repeated the on off switch and it was clearly not consistent. So i went digging after that switch. I thought I had disconnected the lanyard plug behind the console, but turns i had not not done it. I also snipped the black/yellow wire on the key ignition.

These things combined put me back on the lake. I changed too many variables in the end so I can't point to the fix specifically. I think it was the lift pump that finished the job. What's weird is both the lift and low pressure pumps benchtested fine. SO LESSON DON"T BENCH TEST. OHMS TEST!!! At some point after running for about 12mins one of the pumps was locking out the flow and a benchtest could not catch that. The motor would starve for fuel and die and not restart until it cooled down.

I want to thank Tim, dblackstone, and Seadoosnipe. Literally no single shop in this state of new york would work on this boat.


After all this I have a love/hate feeling about the boat, but I'm not sure I want to sell given all the parts besides the block and rotating assembly are now new. And after this ordeal I really know this motor and feel confident about being able to manage it.

putting in some search words for the next guys reference:
2003 seadoo utopia 250 optimax starving for fuel, cutting out, only starts cold, won't hot start, vapor lock, lift pump, low pressure pump

Many thanks.

 

[dblackstone]

These motors are fairly simple to work on if you have some mechanical knowledge and a service manual. it still amazes me that mercury mechanics don't want to touch them as it is an outboard set up for jet drive.

I will say they can be a pain to hang over and work on thou and I wish I had smaller hands to get to plugs on cyl # 5 and #6