01 gtx di over heating

[roberth2013]

hi everyone,,, worked through the starting issues on my 01 DI got them ready took them today and put them in the water, they both started great backed them off the trailer, about 45 seconds to a minute the console light started blinking
and the buzzer went on, display console said hi-temp. on both skis about the exact same time,

before taking them to the lake I ran them, connected with the flush tube, they never offered to run hot,, and I had a good steady stream coming out of the spout port behind the rear seat, when I was on the water no water came out of that place, un- hooked all the water cooling lines I could find on both skis while I was still on the water, didn't seem to be any blockages of the cooling lines.

whats really weird is that they both ran hot about the exact same time,,,been searching through the service manual,
for places to check , any ideas where to start thanks again for this great place to come look for answers

 

[- BiRkS_]

Do you see the pisser at the back of the ski? is the water hot? or is there any water? how hot does the top of the engine get? Did you service the pump lately and forget to put the little o-rings in?

 

[roberth2013]

hi thanks for the quick reply,, no pisser water coming out like when I had them hooked up to the water at home when I was servicing them.

only had them a few weeks, my experience is mostly with ATV'S new to pwc's yes I serviced the pumps, the dealership sold me two bottles of pure synthetic pump oil and the two large "O" rings they didn't give me any smaller ones, i saw there were two ports in the housing when i hade the venturi off, i followed the flo chart in the service manual,

 

[- BiRkS_]

Take the hose off that goes to the pump and find an adaptor that hooks up to a hose, or compressed air and blow through it and make sure the passages are free. I've seen those tubes get full of sand, or other debris if the PO went through some crap. Next, go to the output line on the engine, fire it up, and "Back feed" the cooling system and see if you can blow any crap out, if there is anything.

 

[roberth2013]

ok great i will do that tomorrow, thanks for your time and information much appreciated :0)

 

[roberth2013]

i know one thing for sure, when i cracked the throttle open, i was seriously impressed with the power these things have,, i cant imagine what a 4 stroke supercharged one feels like to ride, i raced quads for years and i thought they had some power, i cant wait to get these running right, should be a blast this summer

 

[DooWacka]

While on the lake the "pisser" or flow indicator won't often show flow unless the rpm are higher than idle. So you need to lean back to look when you rev on the lake to see if it is flowing.

The jet pump could have ingested something to either impede the turbine or block a passage. The hoses are not the real constriction areas, since there are much smaller openings in the metering fittings that are made small to provide the "right amount" of cooling, instead of over cooling from "wide open" flow.

If you forgot O-ring #23 in this parts diagram, that is where the cooling water supply is connected.
http://fiche.seadoowarehouse.com/seadooforums/showmodel.asp?Type=13&make=seadoopwc&a=225&b=18&c=0&d=-PROPULSION-SYSTEM
The two smaller O-rings are suction for the bilge pumps.

 

[roberth2013]

thanks for the info I didn't take the pump down that far, the dealership said all I needed to do was remove the venturi and the cone, drain the oil, let it drain thoroughly, replace the cone O-ring and refill from the port on the top of the cone,

I checked all the hose passages I could follow from the flow chart in the manual, ran lightly compressed air through them,,doesn't seem to be any blockages. I do think you might have hit the nail on the head, right after we launched both skis I moved them around to a shallow beach area so we could get ready to ride, the loading area was so packed its all I could do, I killed the engines in about three feet of water and coasted them up on the beach, when we got ready to ride I pushed them back off the sand and started the engines, I think now after reading your suggestions we might have sucked up debri's into the small areas that you are talking about

checking the pisser is one of the first things I did when we was out in the water and the alarms went off, nothing from either one of them at about 2000 rpms I limped them back to the loading area and trailered them home, how do I and where do I check the small restricted areas you are talking about I think you have diagnosed my problem

 

[lamajama]

thanks for the info I didn't take the pump down that far, the dealership said all I needed to do was remove the venturi and the cone, drain the oil, let it drain thoroughly, replace the cone O-ring and refill from the port on the top of the cone,

I checked all the hose passages I could follow from the flow chart in the manual, ran lightly compressed air through them,,doesn't seem to be any blockages. I do think you might have hit the nail on the head, right after we launched both skis I moved them around to a shallow beach area so we could get ready to ride, the loading area was so packed its all I could do, I killed the engines in about three feet of water and coasted them up on the beach, when we got ready to ride I pushed them back off the sand and started the engines, I think now after reading your suggestions we might have sucked up debri's into the small areas that you are talking about

checking the pisser is one of the first things I did when we was out in the water and the alarms went off, nothing from either one of them at about 2000 rpms I limped them back to the loading area and trailered them home, how do I and where do I check the small restricted areas you are talking about I think you have diagnosed my problem

It's quite possible that's exactly what you did if you pushed them back. I make a point (if nose-in) of going to the back of the seadoo and lifting up as I pull to make sure no crap is inside the drive etc. When it's floating free, then I float it around so it's nose-out.

 

[roberth2013]

great info, I will make sure that's how it will be done from this point on, im new here, how do you give a member a thumbs up :0)

 

[DooWacka]

checking the pisser is one of the first things I did when we was out in the water and the alarms went off, nothing from either one of them at about 2000 rpms I limped them back to the loading area and trailered them home, how do I and where do I check the small restricted areas you are talking about I think you have diagnosed my problem

Since you mentioned you have a shop manual, look on page 07-02-15 for a description of the calibrated elbow fittings.

http://fiche.seadoowarehouse.com/seadooforums/showmodel.asp?Type=13&make=seadoopwc&a=225&b=9&c=0&d=-COOLING-SYSTEM

I think one of these "calibrated" elbows is on top of the tuned pipe near the joint (#7) (not the indicator/bleed fitting). The other elbow may be on the back of the cylinder water jacket (#10).

Back flushing with water using the garden hose should force all these obstructions clear. Don't blow in the normal direction of flow. The back flush port is the largest normal water exit, in the top left corner of the rear plate where the jet pump is mounted. I have a garden hose Qwick-connect screwed in there, so it is easy to back flush. Do this only after motor is running, to avoid filling it with water.

Overheating can also be caused when even a small bit of debris gets jammed between the impeller and the wear ring. This causes increased turning resistance for the motor, and greatly diminishes the pumping of cooling water, but is not a block inside the cooling system. This is usually accompanied by the lack of thrust from the turbine.


BTW - You give thumbs up by clicking the green "Thumbs up" in the lower right of each post.

 

[roberth2013]

thanks so much for all the great detailed info and the links to the parts schematics, I will follow your instructions and see what I come up with, I gave you a thumbs up hope I did it right

 

[roberth2013]

hey guys, back to square one, back flushed both skis last week, checked all lines in the cooling system flow chart, took them apart at each fitting to make sure no blockages,when I hooked them up to the flushing port at the left rear with the quick connect. started the motors turned on the water, plenty of flow,,ran he engines as suggested by the manual for 3 minutes, pisser squirting great, both motors ran cool cool,,there was sweat on the exhaust pipe and I could touch the heads and cylinders with my hand and they were barely warm,

thought I had it figured out, took them to the lake this morning and put one in the water started the engine cruised around in circles for a little bit close to the launch ramp, same thing, after maybe less than two minutes alarm went off and high heat was the message, I took the inlet hose loose at the T fitting up on the body on the right side,,,blew back through the hose toward the pump, air flow was great,,
im lost, is it possible that the water pressure regulator has corroded shut,,or does it have anything to do with the cooling of the engine,,, took the hose that flow into the head,,put water pressure to it,,,no blockages as best I can tell

not sure what to do next, any suggestions?

 

[- BiRkS_]

If it runs fine on the hose, but poorly in the water i would suspect you have a blockage in the pump. Take the line from the head that goes directly to the pump, hook up the hose directly to that line and backflush towards the pump. There has to be something blocking it. When you run it on the hose adaptor, you are bypassing the jet pump/water intake, hence, it runs fine on the hose.

 

[roberth2013]

thanks man I see where your going with this,,i didn't realize the pump was being by passed,will go give it a try, its driving me crazy lol the cooling system seems simple enough, if the pump and grate is being by passed that's probably where its at thanks again

 

[travisbrant]

Had a similar problem before with both by GTX DI and GTX carb model. The DI had a block line, matter fact was the 90 degree elbow where it went into engine. The carb model was a block in the pump, just carfully unbolted pump and examined and found blockage in the one line. Odds r the pump is your problem area. Also they wont overheat on the hose because you are back flushing them not circulating water thru them like on a lake or river... Good luck and please let us know where you found the problem so others might learn.

Travis Brant

 

[roberth2013]

thanks travis for your time also, I have a pair of gtx's just like your blue one, I think they will be great once I work through these little issues,, they seem to have good power when I crack the throttle open, my girlfriend and I bought them a few weeks ago, and they hadn't been riden in a couple years so shes being real patient taken them to the lake twice and put them right back on the trailer, lmbo , always bugs here and there with mechanical things, been a quad racer and crotch rocket rider, jet skis mechanics are quite different, but with service manuals and great forum sites like this one with all the members working through issues, like I keep telling her anything made by a man can be fixed by a man lol I guess its time to give the pumps a good going over

will let you know what I come up with thanks man

 

[roberth2013]

hey guys one more question, I have been a mechanic most of my life, so I have to know how things work, I read the service manuals and visit sites on whatever im riding or working on, my question is how does the pump actually work, the manual is very vague, from the parts diagrams and service manual breakdown,

there isn't acutally anything mechanical creating the pump pressure or flow the engine, ie a mechanical pump on a car or any other water cooled engine, is it the impeller that pushing water up into the inlet hose. I was a jet ,,mechanic in the air force so I understand compression from turbines which are a little like an impellar.

again thanks for this site, and all of your experience and time

 

[DooWacka]

You are correct, especially since you understand jet turbines. Since water can't be compressed like the air in the jet aircraft turbines, the impeller sends it out the back of the jet pump at high speed. There is a small port in the pump that "taps" some high pressure water to send through the cooling system. There are also ports, in a different portion/stage of the pump, that provide suction to the balers that remove water from the bilge.

 

[roberth2013]

I see the mechanics of it now, I followed your instructions on back washing the cooling system, checked flow through all the elbows and head, I took the the hose off the T fitting and blew low pressure compressor air through the hose towards the pump, It seemed clear

so I took them to the lake launched one,, same problem,,i see now that from the suggestion of another member I should have pushed water through it, I didn't realize that the hose had several exits, and the air took the easiest one ,,, brought them home took the intake hose loose at the T fitting again stuck in an adapter pushed water through it

only a small dribble of water came out at first on the venturi side then after a few seconds I heard a low pop and girgling of water then really good flow started coming out the bottom, I hope that I didn't damage anything, the water pressure was only from a garden hose

man I really appreciate it more than you know, my girlfriend is tryin to be patient two times to the lake and no riding except on and off the trailer lol not good I hope that we have found the issue,, like I was saying earlier when i run them with the flushing adapter, the engnes run cool, so I can hold my hand on the cylinders and they are just warm but I understand from the member earlier that the flushing by-passing the pump, with you explaining the mechanics of the pump, I have a clear picture of whats going on,,thanks again
will lt you know what happens,,,

 

[roberth2013]

Well I took both skis to the lake today and took them out for a test,, same thing both skis within two minutes, the alarms came on again, I still nothing coming out of the pisser,, so I took them back on the trailer. after saying some words I never say my buddy and I got an idea, strap the skis down,, back them down the ramp far enough to submerge the pump and grate,, unhook the supply line at the body and start the engine up and see if there is any water coming in,, we only let the engines idle and feathered them lightly a couple times

plenty of flow no pressure really, but water flow, did the same at the first "T" and then at the pressure valve all the same,, water flow, did that with both skis,, both had the same amount of flow. I got a sick feeling in my stomach, heads are stopped up or worse corroded shut. man im just about to give up and put them up for sale,, one thing still kept puzzling me, if the engines were running at 175 degrees and above,, then when I put my hand on the pipe and head/cyclinders thy should have made me jerk my hand away,,they were good and warm but not smoking hot,,

got them back home,,hooked them up for back flushing and start all over trying to find what the problem is,,
so here is what I did, starting with the supply line I push water through each fitting,,,first T flow flow through the low pressure side of the pressure regulator, and on to the inlet elbow at the exhaust pipe,, next fitting same thing water flowing through the magneto hose and out the back of the ski, can see water flowing through the air compressor on both fittings

I hook up everything back up,, connect the back flush hose,,start the engine,,,turn on the water,,let the engine run,,,continually checking the heat of the parts on the motor,, the exhaust pipe ,,,the exhaust ports where the pipe connects to it,, everything is very cool the actual head itself starts warming up,, but never gets uncomfortable to touch,,,
Im lost the only thing I can even reason is wrong is coolant sensors are malfunctioning,, but I don't get it ,,both skis behave identical,, just doesn't make sense im about to throw in the towel guys,, I know I would love them if I could deal with this problem

 

[DooWacka]

Did you ever actually check the rotational "resistance" of the motor and pump? I mean take off the plastic PTO cover, remove the spark plugs, then hand rotate the PTO flywheel (in the proper direction of course). You should be able to pretty easily rotate the whole motor and pump system. If it is hard to turn, then decide if it is the motor, or more likely the pump giving the resistance.

 

[roberth2013]

No I havnt tried that, but I will first thing, in what way would that affect overheating? is there a shortcut to determining if its the pump, I will read the manual and see if It can be unhooked without any special tools,, man I thought diagnosing problems with these things wouldn't be this hard lol

 

[DooWacka]

If there is to much resistance, it overheats like you're trying to pull a boat, or a 350 lb water skier.

Unfortunately, you have to pull the pump off to see if it is the motor or the pump. I am starting to look a the more obscure possibilities, since you seem to have researched most of the rest.

Look at this cooling schematic for the 947 DI. Apparently the overheat warning buzzer is triggered by exhaust (muffler) temperature, and not the temp sensor in the motor. So, if that is the case, the muffler may not be getting enough cooling supplied by the water valve mounted on it. The valve's main function is to supply the right amount of cooling to the tuned pipe for best performance. However, it also provides the muffler cooling. If the exhaust gases get to hot you can melt the plastic resonator "downstream" from the muffler. Not enough water to the tuned pipe may also affect the pisser.



http://fiche.seadoowarehouse.com/seadooforums/showmodel.asp?Type=13&make=seadoopwc&a=225&b=9&c=0&d=-COOLING-SYSTEM

 

[roberth2013]

well doowacka my friend today it all finally came to a head, I removed the plugs and the motors on both turned by hand very nicely allowing for ring and piston resistance on the cylinders,, so I decided to try something new,,, I hooked up a water hose to the supply hose near the head and eliminated all the other ones and was going to run the motor to see if the sensor would kick on again,

I started the motor and put some fair amount of water pressure on the hose,,,when we noticed water dripping in the back of the tuned pipe toward the gas tank,,i felt sick to my stomach,, I seems the water flow I had believed earlier was just bypassing the head and going straight into the muffler,,,i feel so stupid not to have gone directly to the fitting on the back of the motor on the head to begin with,,i just couldn't understand why it wouldn't get hot when I was back flushing

to make a long strory short I decided to take of the upper part of the tuned pipe and see where the leak was coming from,,the farther I took it down the worse it got,,corrosion had gotten under the copper gasket and as leaking,,on both skis,,,same thing. when I finally got the compression ring loose,,,i got even sicker,, ,, when I got it off and was inspecting the flange surface I started pulling out the rubber gasket around he exhaust manifold,,as I pulled the gasket,,parts of the manifold started breaking off with the gasket,,, its toast,,garbage

then I put the the hose pipe nozzle onto the fitting at the head and its stopped completely up,,,then I really got sick on my stomach,,,so I started taking off the manifold,,,all the bolts came loose but the top two,,,the long ones,,,im afraid they are going to break off,,,anyways enough crying in my milk,,,,i see now that the seller completely deceived me in saying the skis had only been in the salt water a couple times,,,

and had been flushed and maintained,,,and I havnt even started taking the other one down yet,,,i don't drink ,,but think I want to start tonite its heart breaking because the engines run so good, started looking on ebay for some parts,,found a manifold ,,sent the seller a question as if it would fit mine or not,,,,have to wait and see,,,, I appreciate all your help and taking the time to trouble shoot these things with me,,, any suggestions on where to hunt for some used parts,,,, thanks man