Yet another oil question...

[Rickbaro]

I've read much about this topic, but I guess it takes me longer than most...

In my 717s, I can run mineral or synthetic. I'm lucky these days that I can afford the synthetic especially because I understand there are long-term benefits vs. mineral in terms of keeping things cleaner. I think I'm okay there (although there are some nagging questions about how oil can be considered “synthetic” if it’s made from oil to begin with).

I’m clear on the API-TC vs. TCW3 thing; that is easy (although my chemistry classes fail me in fully understanding the differences) because the verdict is unanimous.

Where things get murky for me is this; I understand that the synthetic from Bombardier is a proprietary blend developed with Castrol, and so it has some different qualities than say Quicksilver. Yet respected members on this board will say it's okay to use the Quicksilver. Considering QS is 20% less expensive than what I'm going to pay for the Bombardier oil, I can’t ignore the fact that I could be paying significantly less up front, but I’m wondering if I’ll just pay for it later in terms of replacing non-metallic parts sooner for example?

So I guess my question is what precisely does the XP oil have that others don’t, and why would it be in there?

Thanks for your patience in this old question!

 

[jsp]

I dont know the precise difference. From a chemistry point of view. But my guess the difference in price mainly comes from the fact that your buying your oil from a recreational product producer that buys its oil from an oil manufacturer like castrol. And they put it in a nice shiny bottle with bombardier stamped on it to make you the buyer feel all warm and fuzzy inside!

If its got the proper rating that the manufacturer specifys then it's ok to use the oil.

I buy my oil from the seadoo dealer in bulk and pay significantly less because I don't get the nice fancy yellow bottle. But I'm ok with that.

 

[Dr Honda]

There have been no engine failures that have pointed toward QS API-TC oils. So... I would trust it. (but, I don't run it)

Here's the simplified Chemistry. (From an EX R&D Chemist)

There are two main differences in the additives package between a TC-w3 oil... and an API-TC oil.

1) The first is a metal salt. (Metal Azo complex actually) But, for us... let's just call it a salt. This metal salt, at high temps will break down, but not completely. But, when it does... at the molecular (Crystalline) level, it becomes a buffer between the piston, and the cyl wall. This helps keep the piston from actually touching the cyl wall.

2) Sulfur compounds. Sulfur is an EXCELLENT high pressure lubricant. (it has high surface tension) But... at high temps, these compounds break down, and bond with the water, making sulfide and sulfate compounds. But who cares... Right?? it all goes out the tail pipe.



OK... this is where we care. The Sulfur compounds, and the metal salts will enter the water, and they can kill the fish. (They are toxic) So... back in the day (late 80's ?) the NMMA group came to be, and they wanted to protect the wildlife. So, they had an oil company make an oil with most of the nasty stuff removed. This was the first TC-w oil. It worked very well for a typical small outboard engine of the time... but it would never pass the strict performance requirements of the API-TC standard, or the JASO F B/C standards.


The over simplified standard is... 100 hp/l or less, and no more than 5500 RPM, and a TC-w3 oil is just fine. BUT... since most of our seadoo engines are +7000 RPM... and producing 140 hp/l... the TC-w3 oils just cant take the abuse. We need the metal, and sulfur to keep out engines happy. (those 2 things are why it's important to see on the label that it's a "Low Ash" oil)

 

[Dr Honda]

I dont know the precise difference. From a chemistry point of view. But my guess the difference in price mainly comes from the fact that your buying your oil from a recreational product producer that buys its oil from an oil manufacturer like castrol. And they put it in a nice shiny bottle with bombardier stamped on it to make you the buyer feel all warm and fuzzy inside!

Just an FYI... "QuickSilver" is Mercury marine's parts division. (but I don't know who makes it for them)

 

[Rickbaro]

Thanks Dr. Honda.

I also found an article written by Robert Verret which seems to be comprehensive. He discussed the TC3 oil for the smaller engines, and why it doesn't work for the typical Sea-Doo motor.

http://www.sea-doo.net/techarticles/oil/oil.htm

 

[LouDoo]

I have use Quicksilver synthetic blend in my 717, and full synthetic in my 787's, with no problems. Recently I have switched to SeaDoo XPS 2, for my 787's because I have found it at a competitive price to QS at Walmart. SeaDoo XPS 2 is what other oils are compared to so why not use the original. BTW Doc Honda buys from the same vendor.

Lou