Worst case scenario? Fuel system

[Arriva2001]

I was refueling my Sea-Doo and I always put Star-tron fuel stabilizer in the gas (you never know if it’s gonna be the last trip of the season). Well...that little waxy cardboard circle that sits in the cap of the stabilizer bottle fell straight down the refueling hose. I couldn’t get it out.

What’s the worst that could happen? Will it disintegrate and plug up the fuel strainer filter? Or not disintegrate at all and instead plug up the fuel baffle intake?

I would think there are probably worse things that are floating in an old tank...but didn’t know if this is truly a concern or worth trying to get it out.

 

[Arriva2001]

One reason I am asking is because I experienced an issue after about an hour of running with flawless performance. I was going about 1/2 throttle and punched it to full throttle. Engine responded by immediately bogging down and acting like it wanted to die. I let off throttle and runs fine. Repeat...same thing happens. To me, it felt like it was not able to get enough fuel—so my brain immediately goes to that dumb cardboard thing clogging up a fuel hose. Also...very strong fuel smell under the seat, so I’m going to do a fuel system pressure check. I changed fuel lines myself this spring...so maybe something came loose. Would this cause the symptom I described? Any other things to check? (Carb was rebuilt end of last season with good oem parts). Also...this is a ‘96 GTS 5817.

 

[Arriva2001]

The more I think about it, I think the dumb cardboard circle is unrelated. The strong fuel smell makes me think there is a leak. I noticed the top of the tank appears to have some sort of sealant on it. Is this factory? Or someone’s bad fix?

Would symptoms of fuel system with an air leak match what I described with my performance? Or is this all unrelated? What I cannot figure out is why it acted great then all of a sudden there was a problem. If there is a crack in fuel tank neck, I’d think this would be a problem pretty much constantly. Unless a wave jump shook something loose?

 

[Ckrawiec]

That's a patch around the fuel tank fitting....my guess, the tank experienced a crack and someone puttied it up. Probably still cracked and you are smelling fuel vapor (assuming any of the myriad other lines aren't leaking somewhere).

If that little cardboard circle floats it shouldn't affect the fuel pickup as the fuel comes from the very depths of the tank itself and there is a baffle screen at the bottom of the fuel tube that wouldn't let the cardboard up the tube...but of course, the cardboard COULD partially block the filter screen eventually (if it sank to the bottom of the tank and into the reserve area..

If you get ambitious, you can always pull the fuel tube out of the tank and fish the cardboard circle out (if you can see it floating around in there) using a 4 prong flexible mechanics helper for just such an occasion....Home Depot has them for like 10 bucks...a handy little tool if you drop stuff in hard to reach places....mine has LED light on the end too.

The tank can be "welded" with a soldering iron and a wide tip to gently melt the plastic around the neck...it doesn't have to look real pretty (removing all the putty first).

Your "bogging" problem is PROBABLY carb related.....they usually are...very frustrating.

Also, looks like there is a grey tempo fuel line still in the ski, might wanna consider changing that out, unless its the vent line (then its probably OK, but the consensus is change them all if you are anyway)....someone may have gotten lazy.

 

[Arriva2001]

Thank you! I am the lazy one [emoji3]. I left the vent line as gray tempo. I’ll probably change it at some point. A lot has happened in the last hour!!! After I posted this, I was doing more reading and heard there was possibly a recall on my fuel tank. So I called Bombardier, and sure enough...service bulletin 1996-12—this fuel tank can crack around the filler neck and dealer is obligated to repair at no charge. I’m curious what their repair will be. (Maybe more caulk?). I imagine they don’t still have these tanks lying around.

If they indeed do swap out the tank, I’m going to ask to strain the fuel even if I have to pay for it. Calling dealer first thing tmrw (closed mondays).

Hoping I don’t have to rebuild carbs again so soon...

 

[Ckrawiec]

Thank you! I am the lazy one [emoji3]. I left the vent line as gray tempo. I’ll probably change it at some point. A lot has happened in the last hour!!! After I posted this, I was doing more reading and heard there was possibly a recall on my fuel tank. So I called Bombardier, and sure enough...service bulletin 1996-12—this fuel tank can crack around the filler neck and dealer is obligated to repair at no charge. I’m curious what their repair will be. (Maybe note caulk?). I imagine they don’t still have these tanks lying around.

If they indeed do swap out the tank, I’m going to ask to strain the fuel even if I have to pay for it. Calling dealer first thing tmrw (closed mondays).

Hoping I don’t have to rebuild carbs again so soon...

I wouldn't even bother with the dealer and the gas tank (on a 23 year old ski).....I'd fix it myself in an hour.

HOPE is not a good strategy , I'm going into my carbs for the 4th time....still tweaking them in.....testing on the trailer doesn't give you the TRUE results, so clean/rebuild/re-install/launch/test/repeat....sigh.....if nothing else...these old skis will keep you humble!

 

[Arriva2001]

Yeah I hear what you’re saying. If dealer fix is more putty then I’ll fix it myself. But if I get a new improved tank out of the deal for free...no going to pass that up.

Yeah I’m afraid I’m going to have to go through the carb again. Ugh.

 

[Ckrawiec]

Yeah I hear what you’re saying. If dealer fix is more putty then I’ll fix it myself. But if I get a new improved tank out of the deal for free...no going to pass that up.

Yeah I’m afraid I’m going to have to go through the carb again. Ugh.

Sure, in the winter...have at it put a new tank in.....not now though...there is still some daylight and riding (ahem!) to do....

 

[Arriva2001]

I did a compression test as well while looking things over (harbor freight gauge). Front is about 130, rear is around 110. I know these are low...but maybe related to the cheap gauge. Should I be concerned with the difference between the two though? I would love it if I can get a couple more weekend rides this summer and then decide what to do with either selling, rebuilding top end (or full rebuild?) or replacement engine.

I am wondering if surging issues I was experiencing caused a single lean cylinder? Or would both cylinders be equally impacted by lean operation?

Other than late yesterday’s issue, it was starting and running great.

 

[POPPS]

Your compression differential is close to the 10 % rule. Cylinders never seize at the same time, not in my experience. Your surging symptoms in most cases is fuel delivery. And I truly don't understand why you have gone thru your carbs 4 times..ONCE is enuf,

 

[Arriva2001]

thanks. I was hoping that differential was close enough to get by. It runs pretty good when it's running good . But this surging thing intermittently happening has me concerned I'm gonna get stranded in the middle of the lake. Of course it only happens when I'm super far from shore. 90% of the time, it works fine.

I did order a new OEM Mikuni rebuild kit today to have on hand for when I eventually need to redo the carburetor (thankfully there is only one carb on mine).

Just for some background...I had a trusted independent shop rebuild the carbs at the end of last season (ski was new to me). So I've (well technically not me) only messed with the carbs once. Then this spring, I replaced all the tempo fuel lines (other than the vent line) with modern fuel line. I had installed an inline fuel filter prior to the carbs... I initially had an issue with surging early this season, and a lot of folks on this forum thought it might be because of the inline filter (causing a leak, etc.). So I removed it. I think they were right, because removing it solved my problem.

Then my starter went out. I replaced it, and have had two outings since then. First outing, everything went well. Second outing, yesterday, I'm having the weird issue where throttle at high end is causing it to want to die. "feathering" or playing around with the throttle seemed to work OK. It accelerates fine at first, but then too much throttle causes it to want to die. When I back off throttle, it smooths out and runs ok. I had to do this all the way across the lake to get back to my vehicle. It idles fantastic for a bit of 'look on the bright side.'

Any simple test I can perform while on the water that will help me understand if it's because I'm not getting enough fuel when I'm applying throttle? I don't really know where to look when it's something so intermittent? Should I just rebuild the carbs because they are so commonly the cause of most problems?

 

[ah64driver2002]

You had the carbs rebuilt last year but but didn't change out the tempo lines until this year. Did you run the ski any before you changed the lines? Could have gummed up you clean carbs if you did. Did they use OEM mikuni parts? The fuel selector should get changed just to rule it out as an issue cleaning usually doesnt work, could be gummed up from the lines. If you are still riding it and it surges on you try pulling the choke and see if that helps if it does you don't want to ride it anymore until you fix your fuel delivery issue or it may cost you the engine but based on the compression numbers you may already just about be there. I am no expert just repeating what I have heard mostly and learned a bit from tinkering with my skis.

 

[ah64driver2002]

Disregard the OEM mikuni question I see now you have used them.

 

[Spunbearing]

I was having a nasty bogging issue on my XP a couple of years ago and it turned out to be crack similar to the one you have pictured. When I would start the day with a full tank the unit would run like crap until I got to about 2/3 of a tank of gas. It turned out the gas was leaking out into the hull making the engine run really rich and bogging it until it got past the point where no more was leaking out. If you can "crack" the seat open a bit (I was able to move the seat on my XP down a bit to let some air in) you see if that helps.

 

[Arriva2001]

I was having a nasty bogging issue on my XP a couple of years ago and it turned out to be crack similar to the one you have pictured. When I would start the day with a full tank the unit would run like crap until I got to about 2/3 of a tank of gas. It turned out the gas was leaking out into the hull making the engine run really rich and bogging it until it got past the point where no more was leaking out. If you can "crack" the seat open a bit (I was able to move the seat on my XP down a bit to let some air in) you see if that helps.

When you fixed the crack in the tank, did the issues get resolved?

 

[Arriva2001]

You had the carbs rebuilt last year but but didn't change out the tempo lines until this year. Did you run the ski any before you changed the lines? Could have gummed up you clean carbs if you did. Did they use OEM mikuni parts? The fuel selector should get changed just to rule it out as an issue cleaning usually doesnt work, could be gummed up from the lines. If you are still riding it and it surges on you try pulling the choke and see if that helps if it does you don't want to ride it anymore until you fix your fuel delivery issue or it may cost you the engine but based on the compression numbers you may already just about be there. I am no expert just repeating what I have heard mostly and learned a bit from tinkering with my skis.

There was one ride between clean carbs (maybe 45 min runtime), and new fuel lines. So I guess It could have gotten gummed up in that time, but I thought it would be unlikely. Could it happen that fast? I did also change out fuel selector with a new one when I changed the lines. Along with new fuel strainer and gasket.

 

[Ckrawiec]

Your compression differential is close to the 10 % rule. Cylinders never seize at the same time, not in my experience. Your surging symptoms in most cases is fuel delivery. And I truly don't understand why you have gone thru your carbs 4 times..ONCE is enuf,

I wish it was only once but:
1st time) just a cleaning....no replacement parts (done after the ski was found submerged for an indefinite period of time).....just to get it running again.
2nd time) full rebuild with aftermarket kits BEFORE I was educated about only using genuine Mikuni kits (ski ran but like crapo on the water)
3rd time) removed the AM kits and put back all the original Mikuni parts (ski ran much better)
4th time - still TBD ) full rebuild (I have all new Mikuni kits, needles and seats ready to go in), with sticky instructions and Service manual in hand......I THINK I may have reversed the carb linkage arm, etc.....not knowing there is a right and left orientation, etc.....

The ski is at my Summer place (far from home and the Internet (Im in a dead zone), so I can't readily get new parts right away) so I only get to see it on weekends and other priorities have taken away all my "working on the ski time", have 2 other working skis and two boats so nobody is complaining.

 

[mikidymac]

Call Seadoo Corporate and give them your VIN number, there is still an active recall on these gas tanks and if your number falls into the group you will get a new tank installed for free.

 

[Arriva2001]

Call Seadoo Corporate and give them your VIN number, there is still an active recall on these gas tanks and if your number falls into the group you will get a new tank installed for free.

I did call corporate, and they did tell me mine has a recall. They told me to contact the dealer and they will fix it through warranty department. I called dealer and they said they needed to look into it and will call me back. They confirmed mine was recalled and work was not yet done...but I just don’t think they knew what they need to do to fix something so old. Hopefully they call me back in at least next couple days or I might have to push harder with corporate. The dealer didn’t seem impressed when I told them it was from 1996. But a safety issue is a safety issue IMO!

 

[Ckrawiec]

And let the games begin....if seadoo corporate says they will fix it through warranty, then the dealer has to honor that warranty claim (I WOULD THINK)....but when was the recall issued and is there such a thing as a statute of limitations with Seadoo product recall claims??? IDK, so I'm asking for input.

We are talking about a 23 year old ski that has probably passed through multiple hands over that time......or are you the original owner??? I'm wondering if they can weasel out that way....or does it NOT MATTER who owns the machine so long as the work was never done previously.

I know at Xerox we had to support products for 7 years AFTER the product was last manufactured and ceased production.....

 

[Spunbearing]

When you fixed the crack in the tank, did the issues get resolved?

Yes, replacing the tank fixed the issue. It was driving me nuts! Not to mention you are basically sitting on a bomb and pumping unburnt fuel into the water

 

[Arriva2001]

Yes, replacing the tank fixed the issue. It was driving me nuts! Not to mention you are basically sitting on a bomb and pumping unburnt fuel into the water

Hopefully this will do the trick for me too! It puts the “bomb” in bombardier. But in all seriousness, yes I’m not going to ride it until this fumes problem is resolved one way or another. I was a little shocked when I opened up the seat and smelled how strong the gasoline odor was.

 

[Ckrawiec]

Yes, replacing the tank fixed the issue. It was driving me nuts! Not to mention you are basically sitting on a bomb and pumping unburnt fuel into the water

Go easy on the bomb talk.....the OP merely stated a strong fuel odor. Seadoo hulls are ventilated so sure you could say he's sitting on a bomb but he is also sitting on a big piece of metal with internal moving parts in the 6000+rpm range and if something let go, that could really wake you up (although my old Kawasucki threw a rod while being run and the rider barely knew it until the ski quit).

Nobody ever said he was dumping raw fuel into the hull and dumping it out the siphons into the water.....

 

[Arriva2001]

We are talking about a 23 year old ski that has probably passed through multiple hands over that time......or are you the original owner???

I’m definitely not the original or even second owner. This one has lived a full life or two before me, I believe. It was pretty ugly when I got it. But I did a lot of stuff to make it look better. I got it very cheap (parts price) and was prepared to be happy even if I had to replace motor. But luckily I got at least a full season of use out of it so far...almost two now! I’ll post a before and after photo later.

I’ll keep you posted on what the dealer says. I have no idea on statute of limitations but hopefully they still have one of these old “new and improved” tanks lying around and just fix it!

 

[Ckrawiec]

Hopefully this will do the trick for me too! It puts the “bomb” in bombardier. But in all seriousness, yes I’m not going to ride it until this fumes problem is resolved one way or another. I was a little shocked when I opened up the seat and smelled how strong the gasoline odor was.

That brings up an interesting point......my boat manual says to activate the blowers BEFORE I start the boat to clear the rear hatch/engine compartment (inboard) of any fuel vapors, but that seem counterintuitive with flipping on an electric motor (spark). I always pop the engine cover (very easy for me) anyway before I start so I know I'm ventilated.....