Who has/had a challenger 230 with a subwoofer?

[DooGuy]

I’ll be adding a 10” sub this week and curious where those that have the same boat have added and how it sounds. Budget only allows for one this year. I’m thinking between two locations. Option A is behind the passenger seat in the wall of the back seat storage. Or Option B is on the driver’s side wall under the throttle controls etc. thoughts? Experiences?

 

[anthonymsaad]

I have a 210 Challenger with a 10" sub placed on the driver's side wall below the throttle, same position as your options. Sounds great honestly and, with the sub next to me, get to really enjoy the new makeshift massage seat. The only quirk I have with it there is that since it's vibrating that section of the wall harder than the rest, you hear noises that sound like they're loose behind the dash. Not really too much of big deal to me, but figured you should know. Whenever i'm cruising with the sub going hard, I noticed the throttle lever tends to want to move back into the neutral position and have to remind people to keep they're hands on it, or it slows down the boat too much.

If you do place the sub on the passenger's side, same concept with vibrations, but since you wouldn't have on the wall, don't think it will vibrate any items you have in your compartment glove box.

 

[10forty2]

Best advice is to make it convenient to the wiring and amp. Bass frequencies are non-directional, so it really doesn't matter WHERE you put it in the boat, you'll still hear/feel it.....maybe not quite as hard as if it was right under you, but you'll still hear/feel it.

 

[anthonymsaad]

@10forty2 is definitely right, go with convenience in wiring. When I turn my sound system on when the boat is on the trailer, you can feel the sub just standing next to the boat. Out of curiosity, will the sub be connected to an existing amp or will you be installing an amp with it? I'm not too familiar with what the 2007 230 Challenger sound system is configured stock.

Personally, I like to kinda go overkill on redundancy with my setup, being an engineer that's bored late at night, and have a dedicated battery to power my 800W amp for sound system and had a battery isolator solenoid setup so that, when the engines are off, it separates the battery but when the engines are on, it reconnects the batteries and can be charged back up. I'm sure others with more powerful systems with dual amp setups can chime in, but even on my system, I noticed some voltage fluctuations on my accessory circuit. I replaced the 12V socket with a digital voltmeter that I find more accurate and reliable than my volt gauge. But using that, I when I really push my sound system, it detects voltage drops when the sub kicks ini from how much power it draws. As it is it's probably fine with no concerns, but I want to go the extra step and address is so that when I install my second amp, I don't have to worry about voltage instability later on. I know this isn't really relevant to your situation but something to think about. If you do go for a dual battery setup, some use a regular battery to power the system while others use a deep cranking battery so that, worse case the main starting battery dies, the second battery for the sound system could be used to crank the engines. Minor things here there can save you time and prevent headaches later on so you don't have to redo the wiring when replacing radio head units, remotes, and amps as I did.

Either way, it's going to sound and feel amazing!!! I get upset having feeling my sound system and then getting into my car or using headsets and expecting to really feel the music as my boat, but can't.

 

[DooGuy]

I'm thinking I may go on a side wall after test fitting the grill. Likely will go on the wall behind passenger to avoid the rattle Anthonymsaad mentioned of the throttle cables etc. Very picky about rattles and it'll drive me nuts.

Stock system was the Clarion head unit and 4 speakers. Upgrading to a new Kenwood deck. Leaving the 4 Clarion speakers as they sound ok for now( and I've blown my boat budget for this and next year) added two Polk ultra marine hlcd tower speakers and then the 10"Polk sub. Have 3 amps for the system and also adding a series 27 DC battery using the Blue Seas kit, the stereo and non nav lights are going to be off the house battery. Hoping to have the rewire and system installed in next couple days then finish the SeaDek install and call it good.

 

[briancayko]

Take lots of pics! We all want to see your handy work & the finished product. Many on this forum have done, are doing or like me planning for this type of upgrade.

 

[DooGuy]

Take lots of pics! We all want to see your handy work & the finished product. Many on this forum have done, are doing or like me planning for this type of upgrade.

Will do, been on weather delays for couple days and expected thru weekend. Wish had shop tall enough to get in, oh well. Once I can work on will post up pictures.

 

[DooGuy]

Had time to cut the whole and fit the sub. Still need to notch out the grille to fit under the handle. Will be able to hook up after finish writing everything in the next day or so. More pics to come when finished but here's a start.

 

[Sandman251]

Was rushing through the thread hoping I would catch you before you cut that giant hole. Oops. Too late .Was just going to suggest you build a box and keep the sub stashed anywhere you like. Free air or not, all subs will perform better in an enclosure. Plus, then you're not limited to only the places where a grill will fit.

 

[DooGuy]

The storage works pretty good as a box. Thinking I might build a small box around it next year to tighten it up a little but happy with the sound right now. Hits pretty low and loud. Can feel it in the bow easily.

 

[JK230SP]

The guy who had my boat before me put in fourteen, 6" speakers and two subs facing themselves from the rear seats. I like your subwoofer position behind the seats vs, facing inward like mine. I can't tell you how many times I smashed my toes on the grills... If it weren't for the monster holes, I would move mine.

 

[DooGuy]

I came really close to positioning on the inside like yours. My wife is the one that helped me avoid. Said people would be kicking and stubbing their toes all the time. 14 speakers, that include tower? Just trying to visual of placement of them all.

 

[JK230SP]

Start with 6 on the tower, 2 in the bow, 4 near the captains chairs (one footwell and one behind the seat on each side) and 2 on the transom with the second controller.

I'm 6'2" and my head never makes contact with the 6" speakers hanging from the tower. However, the two subwoofers have absolutely killed my toes...nearly ripping off a toenail last year.

It also came with two bats and a plug-in drip charger so we can run power to the boat when it is on our lift/dock.

 

[anthonymsaad]

@JK230SP ......Wow..... Between how stunning your boat looks, that is one heck of a sound system!! What is the combined wattage of your 3 amps??? 2,000-3,000W??? Definitely find the tricker charger port location interesting. Seems super easy to access but, like the transom speakers, do you have any concerns about water getting on then? I have my tricker charger port inside next to the battery cut-off switch. But really curious to know your transom speakers deal with water. I want to do something similar, but my transom gets pretty soaked at times.

 

[JK230SP]

Anthony -
The system has a Fusion receiver and three 1400w amps....4200w total. Whoever designed it has one amp for the hull, one for the tower and a third for the subwoofers.

I have never had much of a water issue in the hull, so I don't think I am taking on any around the transom speakers or charger port. That subject alone would be a good thread: how much water do you drain from your Sea Doo after an afternoon on the water? (!)

 

[anthonymsaad]

Anthony -
The system has a Fusion receiver and three 1400w amps....4200w total. Whoever designed it has one amp for the hull, one for the tower and a third for the subwoofers.

I have never had much of a water issue in the hull, so I don't think I am taking on any around the transom speakers or charger port. That subject alone would be a good thread: how much water do you drain from your Sea Doo after an afternoon on the water? (!)

And here I am thinking my 800W amp was pretty powerful. How's the sound? I've always wanted to know with that much power, do you ever actually utilize that much power or get to at least 70% volume before hearing damage? I can barely push mine above 70% without the engines on. Only when underway at speed do I need to push it to it's max, where I can see the need for more power. But 4200W, that's more than I expected!! Also, are all 3 of those amps powered directly by the 2 batteries? Are there any other systems to maintain power levels? I ask because I talked with someone briefly about his 20 speaker setup and pulling so much power, he installed banks of large capacitors to stabilize the voltage for a clean power delivery.

Sorry, should have clairified. I don't have issues with my water in the hull. I was try to say that, since you have 2 speakers on the rear of your boat, I'd imagine there's a decent chance waves or splashing would get water on your speakers. When I mentioned water on my transom, I mean if i'm stopped and some waves come towards me, water gets on that back platform area and in that drainable locker, where I keep my tubes, That said, curious to know if you were aware of any installation differences to seal those speakers to prevent water getting behind it and on the wires, or water getting in the diaphragm and sounding different, although not a big deal just curious if it's significantly noticeable.

With the transat seats on my 210, I can't easily place speakers your size in mine. Was imagining 2x small tweeters on each side of the curved part of my transom. That way, at least when sitting back there, you can get some upwards firing sound and not near the water, while the second would be more backwards firing for when swimming. Probably not enough to hear when tubing or skiing, but I can work on that later.

Sorry for the questions, never actually had a chance to talk to someone with such an amazing sound system setup! But can you individually turn on each of your amps? Would love to hear your thoughts on speaker placement in your cockpits. I still have 4 speaker, but upgraded to wetsound speakers, with a 10" wetsound sub on the driver's side door. I did have an 800W wetsound amp, but had to swap it out for a JBL amp and replace the head unit with a JBL system. My main issue is immersion of sound when only 2 speakers in the main cockpit area. I want to add speakers on the driver and passenger side footwell, like yours, possibly additional tweeters along the side at shoulder level. But with your footwell speakers, do you like the logistical placement of it (i.e. not accidently hitting it or getting in the way), and thought's on sound immersion? Is it muffled in any way? I plan on integrating my wetsound amp back in, if I can, or get another matching amp.

Again, sorry for the long post, but would love to get close to your setup and get an idea of what I want to do and placement. Plus, I get excited thinking about your sound system, definitely a dream of mine! Wish I could've got a wake tower, but can't fit in my garage when collapsed.

 

[yacht1255]

The guy who had my boat before me put in fourteen, 6" speakers and two subs facing themselves from the rear seats. I like your subwoofer position behind the seats vs, facing inward like mine. I can't tell you how many times I smashed my toes on the grills... If it weren't for the monster holes, I would move mine.
View attachment 41422

Very beautiful boat

 

[JK230SP]

And here I am thinking my 800W amp was pretty powerful. How's the sound? I've always wanted to know with that much power, do you ever actually utilize that much power or get to at least 70% volume before hearing damage? I can barely push mine above 70% without the engines on. Only when underway at speed do I need to push it to it's max, where I can see the need for more power. But 4200W, that's more than I expected!! Also, are all 3 of those amps powered directly by the 2 batteries? Are there any other systems to maintain power levels? I ask because I talked with someone briefly about his 20 speaker setup and pulling so much power, he installed banks of large capacitors to stabilize the voltage for a clean power delivery.

Sorry, should have clairified. I don't have issues with my water in the hull. I was try to say that, since you have 2 speakers on the rear of your boat, I'd imagine there's a decent chance waves or splashing would get water on your speakers. When I mentioned water on my transom, I mean if i'm stopped and some waves come towards me, water gets on that back platform area and in that drainable locker, where I keep my tubes, That said, curious to know if you were aware of any installation differences to seal those speakers to prevent water getting behind it and on the wires, or water getting in the diaphragm and sounding different, although not a big deal just curious if it's significantly noticeable.

With the transat seats on my 210, I can't easily place speakers your size in mine. Was imagining 2x small tweeters on each side of the curved part of my transom. That way, at least when sitting back there, you can get some upwards firing sound and not near the water, while the second would be more backwards firing for when swimming. Probably not enough to hear when tubing or skiing, but I can work on that later.

Sorry for the questions, never actually had a chance to talk to someone with such an amazing sound system setup! But can you individually turn on each of your amps? Would love to hear your thoughts on speaker placement in your cockpits. I still have 4 speaker, but upgraded to wetsound speakers, with a 10" wetsound sub on the driver's side door. I did have an 800W wetsound amp, but had to swap it out for a JBL amp and replace the head unit with a JBL system. My main issue is immersion of sound when only 2 speakers in the main cockpit area. I want to add speakers on the driver and passenger side footwell, like yours, possibly additional tweeters along the side at shoulder level. But with your footwell speakers, do you like the logistical placement of it (i.e. not accidently hitting it or getting in the way), and thought's on sound immersion? Is it muffled in any way? I plan on integrating my wetsound amp back in, if I can, or get another matching amp.

Again, sorry for the long post, but would love to get close to your setup and get an idea of what I want to do and placement. Plus, I get excited thinking about your sound system, definitely a dream of mine! Wish I could've got a wake tower, but can't fit in my garage when collapsed.

As I understand it, what you hear is not just a result of how much wattage being thrown out by your system, but the number of speakers you are driving and the capacity of the speakers themselves. In my case, the guy who owned the boat before me had a desire to throw everything but the kitchen sink into the stereo system -which included an ipod/iPhone dock, a sound mixer that isn't even hooked up anymore (was taken offline before I got the boat), 16 total speakers....and a bunch of mid-range/high-end hardware. I thought I was getting a killer system when I bought the boat, but once I used it for a season I discovered all sorts of wiring issues....burned out channels in one amp....imbalanced load on the tower...buzzing from poor wiring...interference coming from my battery charger....etc. I know I paid a premium to buy the boat which the dealer justified with the killer stereo, but in the end, I paid over $1k a year after purchase to replace two speakers, an amp, the receiver and wiring for the tower and the subs. The bulk of the cost was the labor...I bought the equipment and took it to the shop for them to install.

So... big systems can go bad in a big way.

After the repairs, I am happy with what I hear and would certainly say that the speaker placements in my photos do give you an all-around-sound feel. All of the speakers are Wetsounds, and the AMPs and receiver are Fusion. I haven't really even had the desire to turn the volume up all the way, but can tell you that somewhere around 50-60% my wife starts screaming at me to turn it down while there is absolutely no distortion or vibration to that point. The guy who rewired the system took it for a test drive and said that people reported that they could hear the system "like they were sitting in it" even when it was 150-200 yards offshore.

Again, I'll admit that the solution is probably "way-overdone", but that is just the way the boat came to me - not what I did to it.

Your other questions: Everything is wired inline with the receiver - and individual amps cannot be taken offline. I think that is what the previous owner was trying to do with the mixer (mounded in the driver's side glove box) - isolate each amp by the area of the boat (tower/hull/rear subs), then have a separate volume control for each. Personally, I would put everything - all speakers - at about the same level or height in the boat. Something mounted higher - like a tweeter - would possibly be too close to a person's ear when sitting and drown out the other speakers. This would kill the stereo effect and have one hearing only one channel, and only a portion of the channel if the speaker is a tweeter or a subwoofer. I think you want enough speakers to provide surround coverage, but all of the speakers are far enough away from everyone's ears that they blend together. Everything on the boat is being driven with a two-battery system and an onboard balance charger. When I am sitting on my dock with the boat in the lift, I ALWAYS have my boat plugged in. Likewise, I have NEVER had an issue draining a battery even after playing the stereo on the dock all afternoon. I can't tell you what would happen if I were to have the boat on the water with the stereo cranked up loud and the engines off....as I usually have the kids and MY WIFE with me (see previous comments regarding screaming at me to turn the stereo down when over 50%...). However, I have anchored the boat with the sound on at moderate levels for a few hours.....and again, never had a battery problem.

SO back to the original thread...…….. DOOGUY has become my hero as I am jealous of the placement of his subs and am following in his footsteps regarding the purchase/install of Seadek flooring. I ALSO purchased the blue LED lights from Amazon yesterday to replace the convenience lighting! All fantastic upgrades! He also has a wife who spots troublesome speaker locations before he cuts holes in his hull (vs. my wife who screams at me when the stereo is above 50%...). Dooguy has it all...

 

[DooGuy]

Thanks Jk, wouldn’t say have it all but I’m happy with where I’m at now and for the amount I spent. It’s definitely a budget system but the way it’s tuned doesn’t sound like it.

Still wouldn’t mind adding an underwater light like you have. Is it pretty bright? Had any issues with water patrol over color?

I put in three 400 watt amps, 1 for the cabin speakers, 1 for sub and 1 for tower. I put the tower amp on a rocker switch on the dash so I can turn them off/on as they throw pretty long range. The Kenwood deck I upgraded to has three sets of preamp outs and a heck of an on board eq mixer so haven’t felt need to add an extra one. Bulk of my time was spent rewiring. Swapped out the interior courtesy lights to blue led, I added a house battery and rerouted everything except motors and bilge to it. Tower was a pain to figure out and run. Have two speaker pods that have lighted speaker rings as well some lights which I put on separate circuits. Additionally have an led light bar and the all around light up there too. Put somewhere in the ballpark of 600’ of new cable. Took about a week of afterwork working to do the batt, re-wire, stereo/sub and new flooring. Can definitely see why they charge so much in labor. Not a job I want to do again.

Only thing I really have left to do is seal some rattling cup holders from the sub vibrating with bass frequencies.

 

[JK230SP]

The underwater light was something I first saw on my friend's new MasterCraft...and again on another buddy's Malibu. When I researched them, I found Oceanled.com which really opened my eyes to what was out there.

To me, the light seems very bright, but the true test will come the week of he 4th when we take the boat out to watch fireworks. I'll try to get some pictures then. Ideally, I wanted more than a single light, but the guys at the shop suggested I start here - and in a location that was easier to install. I have yet to hear of any issues with anyone's lights with the authorities. Perhaps that is because only the game warden patrols our lake, although there is a good 15+ miles of lake + river to patrol.

Quick question about your other projects: the courtesy LED's - does your boat have lights above your aft cupholders? I'm wondering if the same LED's purchased on Amazon will fit those fixtures (?) Since my boat is not here at home, I have to wait until the weekend to go out and check...



Thanks again -

JK

 

[DooGuy]

I have Perko courtesy lights that use a feston bulb. I know the cup well lights are a different style. They’re a round type. Not sure the size. I’ll see if I can get a picture of them today. The courtesy lights are now the same shade of blue as your transom light and the cup wells are the ice blue (more white than blue).

 

[anthonymsaad]

@JK230SP Thanks so much for all the details! Definitely agree on the speaker placement and will keep that in mind. As far as not killing the batteries, the shop that the previous owner of my boat had a battery isolator solenoid installed, with the trigger wire connected to the ignition system. With the engines off, and key in the acessory position, it wouldn't trigger the solenoid and bridge the batteries, effectively keeping them battery with the sound system separated from the rest of the circuit. That way, if I had the sound system running for hours and it kills the battery, it just kills that battery. Once I turned the key to turn the engines on, it would trigger the solenoid to then bridge the batteries so that, 1) you can turn the sound system back on running of the second battery and, 2) With the engines on, can recharge the flat battery. I reluctantly removed that but I plan on reinstalling it.

When you mentioned having an onboard balance charger, do you happen to know who makes it? Especially with subs, although they're relatively infrequently used in songs, when they are they pull a lot of power rapidly. Great to have a device balance the electrical load between batteries, but from what I read, that's more for more predictable and consistent power draws, like turning on high intensity lights. But with a sub, it's the rapid power draw that I'm curious how they addressed. It's not a major problem you'd notice and everything should function if given voltage between something like 8-20V. But since I just enjoy designing circuits and built some high precision ones, I'd want to install some hardware to ensure voltage remains between 12-14V. I only ask because with my system at 70-80%, using a cheap voltmeter, my voltage drops from 14.4V down to 12.7V right as my sub kicks in, fluctuating based upon frequency, then slowly going back to 14.4V when not needed. With your sound system almost 6x more powerful, would think they'd account for that, unless your fusion amps already take care of it. If you have your sound system with the interior lights on, if you don't notice the lights dimming when the subs kick in, then it's not a big deal. Hopefully this weekend, I'm going to take my actual circuits equipment to see how bad it is.

Honestly, circuit wiring is what i'm most knowledgable in and the best I can do, especially since I don't have much experience and skills working with fiberglass or tools to cut out speaker holes. My hats off to you @DooGuy and would love to hear your advice on how you approached cutting into the fiberglass and getting a clean circular cut.

 

[JK230SP]

RE: multi battery balance charger (onboard): go to Amazon and lookup ProMariner ProSport 20.

 

[DooGuy]

@JK230SP Thanks so much for all the details! Definitely agree on the speaker placement and will keep that in mind. As far as not killing the batteries, the shop that the previous owner of my boat had a battery isolator solenoid installed, with the trigger wire connected to the ignition system. With the engines off, and key in the acessory position, it wouldn't trigger the solenoid and bridge the batteries, effectively keeping them battery with the sound system separated from the rest of the circuit. That way, if I had the sound system running for hours and it kills the battery, it just kills that battery. Once I turned the key to turn the engines on, it would trigger the solenoid to then bridge the batteries so that, 1) you can turn the sound system back on running of the second battery and, 2) With the engines on, can recharge the flat battery. I reluctantly removed that but I plan on reinstalling it.

When you mentioned having an onboard balance charger, do you happen to know who makes it? Especially with subs, although they're relatively infrequently used in songs, when they are they pull a lot of power rapidly. Great to have a device balance the electrical load between batteries, but from what I read, that's more for more predictable and consistent power draws, like turning on high intensity lights. But with a sub, it's the rapid power draw that I'm curious how they addressed. It's not a major problem you'd notice and everything should function if given voltage between something like 8-20V. But since I just enjoy designing circuits and built some high precision ones, I'd want to install some hardware to ensure voltage remains between 12-14V. I only ask because with my system at 70-80%, using a cheap voltmeter, my voltage drops from 14.4V down to 12.7V right as my sub kicks in, fluctuating based upon frequency, then slowly going back to 14.4V when not needed. With your sound system almost 6x more powerful, would think they'd account for that, unless your fusion amps already take care of it. If you have your sound system with the interior lights on, if you don't notice the lights dimming when the subs kick in, then it's not a big deal. Hopefully this weekend, I'm going to take my actual circuits equipment to see how bad it is.

Honestly, circuit wiring is what i'm most knowledgable in and the best I can do, especially since I don't have much experience and skills working with fiberglass or tools to cut out speaker holes. My hats off to you @DooGuy and would love to hear your advice on how you approached cutting into the fiberglass and getting a clean circular cut.

Hey Anthony, YouTube university helped a lot. Used a rotozip with a metal bit and the circular attachment. Drilled one hole in center for the guide pin than guided the blade around. Used a shop vac right at the blade to help keep dust down as well as mask. Trust me on that part, fiberglass dust is nasty in the lungs. After Few prayers and measuring 5 + times went for it. Once started going. just went slow and let the rotozip work, you can feel when it’s cutting vs just spinning etc. Had to change to sharp part of blade twice but worked really well. Had read various tips on taping area or not. I opted for taping. The tips on drilling are great especially starting in reverse to go thru gel. No chips. Did that on the pilot hole. Rotozip didn’t have any trouble. Hopefully that all makes sense.

I did add a picked of marine plywood inside as extra support for the big hole.

Let me know if any other questions