Wear ring and Impeller (how do they look) Images inside

[smashbrohammer]

Ok, for the back story.

I bought a 1999 Seadoo GTI last year, was my first Seadoo ever. Being a newbie, I didn't realize I was buying a Seadoo that was experiencing cavitation.

A year later after having some fun riding, I've decided to take this on.

So I removed the pump assembly and took some pictures. What is up with my wear ring? What is this black stuff that looks like melted plastic or glue? Is that just the original coating ripped to shreds or was this the original coating. My new wear ring is black.

Also, how does my impeller look based on these pictures? Should I just replace the wear ring and see how it goes? I am cavitating pretty bad but I am able to get some decent top speed. Hard to really judge this because I am riding at a rough river. Going past 35mph in my wake is sort of rough. I do have to floor it and wait a second or two to start going though.

It looks like my wear ring is completely toast and my impeller is so-so.

What do you guys see?

Anything I should know when putting my stuff back together. So far I only purchased a wear ring, wasn't expecting an impeller replacement. I am a complete newb when it comes to wear rings and impellars.

 

[LouDoo]

The black plastic is what's left of your wear ring, the white is the fiberglass core of the wear ring, you will need to remove the fiberglass core of the wear ring. The impeller looks pretty good, you may want to clean it up with a file or a dremel. There are lots of threads on replacing the wear ring.

BTW, welcome to the Seadoo forum.

Lou

 

[digital sol]

Ok, for the back story.

I bought a 1999 Seadoo GTI last year, was my first Seadoo ever. Being a newbie, I didn't realize I was buying a Seadoo that was experiencing cavitation.

A year later after having some fun riding, I've decided to take this on.

So I removed the pump assembly and took some pictures. What is up with my wear ring? What is this black stuff that looks like melted plastic or glue? Is that just the original coating ripped to shreds or was this the original coating. My new wear ring is black.

Also, how does my impeller look based on these pictures? Should I just replace the wear ring and see how it goes? I am cavitating pretty bad but I am able to get some decent top speed. Hard to really judge this because I am riding at a rough river. Going past 35mph in my wake is sort of rough. I do have to floor it and wait a second or two to start going though.

It looks like my wear ring is completely toast and my impeller is so-so.

What do you guys see?

Anything I should know when putting my stuff back together. So far I only purchased a wear ring, wasn't expecting an impeller replacement. I am a complete newb when it comes to wear rings and impellars.

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Looks like the black coating on the wear ring is worn off which is why its that white/clearish color. Also it looks like there is a big gap between the impeller and wear ring but hard to tell from pictures. I would replace it and while you are at it check out the shaft and bearings. Impeller dosnt look damaged from the pics. OSD parts has bearing kits if you need to swap them as well. I just went through the same thing and although the bearings were not missing any pins or anything I went ahead and replaced them as it looks they had been running hot at some point as there was some wear on the shaft and scoring.

 

[bizygolfn]

I am new as well. I can tell you this much, you have waaaaaay more than .040 in clearance between impeller and wear ring. I just did my 98 GTI for .140+ and .040 is the max. After you replace wear ring and put in the jet pump recheck with feeler gauge. if more than .040 than impeller too. At least from what I have read on here and the manual. It's a lot of research but this site is full of knowledgeable peeps.

 

[smashbrohammer]

I plan to do the freezer trick so I don't have to remove the impeller. Any thoughts on this?

 

[bizygolfn]

Take this for what it's worth. I'm new. Ring came out easy from pump. Take pics. There is a lip on both sides,one wider than the other. That may matter on install. Put new ring in freezer for a couple of hours. After that it slides in straight butter. Take pic of ring before you take it out to see how flush and which direction. I promise you'll wish you paid attention after

 

[smashbrohammer]

Take this for what it's worth. I'm new. Ring came out easy from pump. Take pics. There is a lip on both sides,one wider than the other. That may matter on install. Put new ring in freezer for a couple of hours. After that it slides in straight butter. Take pic of ring before you take it out to see how flush and which direction. I promise you'll wish you paid attention after

Did you need to put the pump in the freeze for the original to come out easily? You didn't have to remove the impeller?

Thanks for the advise, I will take plenty of pictures of both sides to ensure I have evidence.

 

[bizygolfn]

I did not have to do freezer to remove wear ring. It slid out easy and then new ring slid in same way (after being in freezer of course ). It did not require me to pull impeller.

 

[mikidymac]

I have always had to cut the old ones out. None have slid out easy for me.

 

[smashbrohammer]

Yea I just tried to slide mine out without any tricks, not budging at all. I can't simply put mine in my freezer but I plan to get a cooler and just filling it with some ice tomorrow night to see how it turns out.

Hopefully this will slip right out after about 30 minutes of freeze time. Not trying to remove my impeller if I don't have to.

 

[Strizzo]

what did the oil in the pump look like when you took the cone off? if there was any water in it, you'll need to rebuild the pump, and to do that you'll need to remove the impeller. really easy to take the impeller off if you have a bench vice and an impeller tool, which you can get for about 12 bucks on ebay.

 

[pwgsx]

Usually if the ring slides out like that, it spun in the pump housing. Normally the ring has to be cut out.

 

[smashbrohammer]

So I swapped my wear ring!

the oil in the pump was very dark and smelled strong. No telling when was the last time it was changed.

No signs of any water inside the housing, there did seem to be a little bit of water stuck between the gasket and the cone.

My bearing looked brand new though.

My old wear ring was not budging. I had to cut it out, but in order to do this I had to remove the impeller. I did not put the housing into the cooler because I did not want a single drop of that old oil inside the cooler.

I did put the new wear ring in the cooler though.

Removing the impeller is not a big deal though, just need the impeller tool which is actually a very simple tool. It just mimics the shaft with a hex head on one end.

Just put the other end into a vice, and insert your impeller tool into the shaft end, and take it off like its a nut. Easy peasy.

Once we cut out the old wear ring out; the new one slipped right in by hand (was in a cooler full of ice for about 30 minutes).

I was amazed of the new gap, my old one had a serious gap compared to the new one.

With my new wear ring, you can barely see a gap. I will put a feeler gauge in it tomorrow and show pictures.

Night and day though.

Now I just need to put the pump assembly back on the Seadoo and take it for a spin

Encase anyone is reading this who is a newb and wanted a complete list breakdown of things you will need:

1. Wear Ring
2. Loctite
3. Gear lube oil or grease depending on your model (look up the recommended type)
4. Possibly gaskets depending on the condition of the ones you have on your Seadoo.
5. Impeller removal tool (be prepared to order this online)
6. A solid work bench vice.

 

[Mekanix]

DONT pinch the needle bearing washer when you put the cone back on!!!

Hold the pump with the impeller side down and the cone side up. Give it several spins. When the shaft drops down a bit you will know the needle bearing ring is properly centered on the shaft.

When it is centered properly you can move the impeller in and out. When the ring is pinched it has very little movement and doesn't allow the same in and out movement.

If you install the cone with it pinched, the impeller will likely be locked up.

Also if you install the cone with the ring pinched. Well, start over with a new needle bearing washer.

 

[smashbrohammer]

So my saga continues.

I put everything back together and my Seadoo had trouble starting. Wouldn't want to even attempt to start really, I tried starting it about 10 times with some breaks in-between.

The motor would barely try to turn for about a second.

Now for a little history... My Seadoo was never a superstar on cold start-ups. Even on warm start-ups it can be a little rough.

So I was immediately saying to myself "Oh no! I didn't do something right".

1. The Battery was always suspect and on top of that I didn't winterize it last season. I was able to take it out on the water once this season but that's it.

2. The battery voltage was reading 12.4 volts after charging it up to give it a good start. This makes me believe my battery isn't doing so well. It should be reading pass 13.1V. After starting it a few times it went back down to like 12.0V.

3. I removed my whole pump assembly just to eliminate the idea that it's my impeller, still same exact results. This actually made me feel a little better because now I know my pump assembly wasn't the cause, at least that's what I think now.

4. My impeller spins just fine and I didn't have to press down my cone or use the 3 screws to compress it down. Everything went together smoothly and my impeller is spinning freely.

So I am thinking its my battery or my starter.

Since I always suspected my battery wasn't the best, I plan to just get a new one. I can't jump my seadoo using a car battery right? It says on my hull to never boost my battery. My hull smells fumy too, so I don't want to test this.

Can I run my engine without the pump assembly attached? I plan to run it for a few minutes without the pump assembly once I get a new battery (I can still hook my hose up to the engine).

If a new battery doesn't do the trick, the only other thing I can think of is a starter.

It's not like my engine is turning over, it just attempts to try to turn it over. When I press the start button, my shaft spins for like a second.

 

[Mekanix]

Remove the driveshaft if you run it without the pump installed.

Get a good battery. Something with 300 cca if you can. YTX20HL-BS is my preference.

What is the battery voltage when your attempting to start it.

Less than 9v and the battery is suspect. Staying above 11 v while trying means the starter is a likely suspect.

 

[smashbrohammer]

After reading a troubleshooting website, it looks like it might be my starter relay.

One Solid Click or Thud

If you go to start your watercraft and all you get is ONE solid click or thud then the Starter Relay has gone bad. Also you know the starter relay is bad is when you press the start button multiple times before the jet ski will finally start.

This sounds like my situation exactly.

How hard is it to remove my driveshaft? Perhaps I don't need to attempt this because I proved it wouldn't start with my pump assembly off, so I may just put my pump assembly back on and continue my troubleshooting.

 

[Mekanix]

That works. Just reassemble it and see if you can turn the crank by hand.

One way to test the starter relay is to short out across the terminals but that will make sparks.
Usually when they starter solenoids go bad you will hear it clicking but nothing happens. Then press it a bunch of times and it finally does work.

Does yours make the solenoid click each time you press the button ?
Does the engine jump each time you hit the button but just doesn't turn over ?

 

[smashbrohammer]

Sometimes it clicks and if I keep pressing it, it wants to attempt to start. It is very random but I mostly get ticking or a one second thud.

Out of the 10 times I tried to start it, I was able to successfully spin the shaft for like 3 seconds.

Every other time would just come to a dead stop after like 1 second. A lot of ticking tho.

 

[smashbrohammer]

That works. Just reassemble it and see if you can turn the crank by hand.

One way to test the starter relay is to short out across the terminals but that will make sparks.
Usually when they starter solenoids go bad you will hear it clicking but nothing happens. Then press it a bunch of times and it finally does work.

Does yours make the solenoid click each time you press the button ?
Does the engine jump each time you hit the button but just doesn't turn over ?

I was able to turn my impeller with a long screwdriver fairly easy prior to taking it back apart. I will put it back together later this week and see about getting me a new starter relay.

 

[Mekanix]

There are two types of solenoids, one is metal and plastic, the other is all plastic.
water can get into the metal one but not the plastic one.
The plastic one is an update I believe.

Check this out.

[video=youtube;n-Ar8A2Gzx0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-Ar8A2Gzx0[/video]

Shorting out the solenoid should make the engine crank and not stop cranking as long as your holding the short on there.
If it does the same thing, that could mean that your solenoid might be ok and the starter is suspect or the connections to the starter could be weak.

 

[smashbrohammer]

Remove the driveshaft if you run it without the pump installed.

Get a good battery. Something with 300 cca if you can. YTX20HL-BS is my preference.

What is the battery voltage when your attempting to start it.

Less than 9v and the battery is suspect. Staying above 11 v while trying means the starter is a likely suspect.

So I determined my battery is dropping down to 5V when trying to start. I will first swap out the battery because I always suspected my battery was weak after buying it from the previous owner.

If this doesn't work I will try to locate my solenoid.

 

[mikidymac]

At 5V your battery is definitely bad.

 

[smashbrohammer]

Put the new battery in last night, started right up. My battery read 12.3V straight out of the box.

The guy at the shop said in order to make the batteries last I need to disconnect it and put it on a battery tender.

Now for the last test, get the Seadoo back in the water. Should be today or tomorrow depending on how the weather holds up.

 

[smashbrohammer]

Well, this thread can be put to rest. Took the Seadoo out on the water, and wow what a difference did a new wear ring make. It just feels so responsive on the water when I hit the throttle. Feels a lot more fun that's for sure.

As promised, for informational purposes encase someone is viewing this thread in the future for picture reference. Below are the images with the new wear ring installed.

Thanks for all the help guys!! For anyone who is thinking of doing this job, just order all your parts (don't forget the impeller removal tool) and be prepared to use a bench vice and you will be good to go!