Subject of the week: A decade, really?

[benjilafouine]

Funny! I was watching today an old video recording I made in 2009 (Star Trek...) and there it was in front of my eyes: an older Sea-Doo commercial for the year-model 2009. The commercial started with "Every Sea-Doo is built to last a decade!" Come and pick yours and bla bla bla...

Now, this is real funny. You get to the store, you buy something and they tell you up front that in ten years, your stuff will be a piece of junk... Now we know why Sea-Doo dealers do not want to fix anything above ten years. In computer terms, this is called "planned obsolescence". Apple is very fond of this concept with its iPhone... Microsoft has started that too: all operating systems are now supported for ten years.

Now, I will be more happy to see what you have to say about this.

Benji.

 

[benjilafouine]

I will be the first to answer...

Does this means that my 2003 GTI LE is junk? It really felt that way this past summer... I think this is a very bad practice from BRP, especially that Sea-Doo's have become cult machines.

Benji.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I hear the 2003 GTI is legendary and my 2001 is still going strong, does what I need it to do (which is carry my butt out onto the lake for the weekend red cup affairs, lol). And I can pull this tiny boat with almost any vehicle, it has no wood inside to rot and it's small size makes it a snap to deal with. Also, it's the first boat I've owned with a scuppered fiberglass deck, a nice feature! I can "jump the spit" and not worry about grounding a prop b/c there's no junk dangling off the rear...

I guess b/c my Sportster still lives, this put Seadoo out of the boat business???

 

[benjilafouine]

We have our older skis still working but picture this: I go to a dealer, buy a 2016 SC ski for $20k and in ten years, they won't want to fix it anymore? Parts are discontinued by BRP after ten years and are available through alternate channels after that.

I must admit: I own a 2003 Ford Focus SE Sport (standard), nothing to brag about, that is in beautiful condition and when I need genuine parts, they are starting to take longer to get to me, like never in stock anymore at dealers. But at least, they will still maintain it for me.

Benji.

 

[howie099]

I guess my 1995 GTX is 10 years past that date... It still floats and has a new engine w/3 hours on it. Good for a while for me. I like the new ones but I would really only get more options, a cooler look, goes faster. In the end they do the same thing. If I lived by salt water sure 4 stoke less issues but still rough on them. I live in Illinois we have 4-6 months a year to ride. My boat looks like its 5 years old instead of 18 years old but it looks like that when it sits in a garage all the time except when I am on the water.

 

[racerxxx]

Not sure but I think you might be reading deeper into this commercial that you need? They're in business to sell NEW products. Everything has a "normal" life cycle (planned obsolesce if you like). Most people used to hold onto a new car for roughly 5 years, so are auto mfg's broadcasting commercials that your car will last half a decade? Heck no, they want your butt in a new car as soon as possible.

As far as dealers not servicing them anymore I think there are several factors. First being most employees probably aren't staying at a dealership that services powersports for more than a decade, some but not many I'm sure. So when the "vintage" employees leave so does their knowledge, knowledge is what troubleshoots a problem fast and can then bill more time to make money. Meaning it took John 20 minutes to trouble shoot the bad rectifier and 10 minutes to replace it. The customer gets billed 1 hour for troubleshooting plus a 1/2 hour for installation, but the tech did it all in 30 minutes. Now the young gun take 5 hours to find the same problem, DOH.....how do we bill this one (see the next factor)?????

The second factor and possibly the biggest is value of craft vs cost of repair. Guy walks in drops off is 1996 seadoo and say it's doing "X", now they invest 5 billable hours into it at lest shoot low at $75 per hour ($375), plus now we need the parts ($125) and that pushed up to a total of $500for a ski that's worth $750. Owner says no way you keep the POS. Now, the dealer didn't get paid for the labor they paid and then they have to get rid of the ski and try and get money back. The dealer is not a bank so all the time it takes them to get money back on what they paid out is a loss, they want their check up front, not on the back end.

Spare parts running dry? No hardly. I can walk into my dealer and order MOST parts for my mid 90's skis and have them before the end of the following week, usually 4-5 days max. If I order on a Friday I can pick it up the following Wednesday. Plenty of OEM parts online. Guys are still pulling NOS Skidoo and vintage sled parts out of barns to this day for sleds built in the 60's and 70's and back then far, far less were produced than in today's standards. I wouldn't worry about that unless your dealer is telling you that. Yes, some parts are discontinued, but not all. I have only hit aesthetic pieces being no longer available, engine parts, pump parts haven't hit them yet....yet.

Not trying to sound negative, just my look at the commercial.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

I also think your reading a tad too deep, I'm hopeful that they meant that you'll be relatively trouble free to a decade, "buy with confidence" rather than saying its going to all but self destruct year 11. although, see my last paragraph, i'm going to say the exact opposite.

fact of the matter is that back in 09, there were a friggen mountain of 99 and older seadoo's still running on the water, so maybe they were hoping that the subconscious mind would think, "ya, I see 10 year old seadoo's out there, they're right ! " I

now its certainly possible that 2 weeks later some Suit suggested that maybe this was message was not "clear" and maybe reworked that ad campaign. I dunno.

I was just getting into pwc's around 07ish ? The 2 strokes vastly outnumbered the 4 strokes, that sheet was for the rich guys.
.
Its more common in my experience to find a ski that's around 11-13 years old being locked up or otherwise non functional from a variety of faults points, some manufacturing mistakes (tempo) some over engineering (951), but mostly from time, neglect, and good old mother nature. Neglect is an engine killer, so many solid ski's have been turned half into crap because they were left in the back yard with a bad starter for 5 years.

FWIW, I will say this... actually the 10 year rules is probably pretty friggen accurate. Whatever path a ski might take over an 11+ year stretch, only the lucky ones come across attentive (& lucky) owners for the entire run. So, ya, a dam good chunk of ski's that I see that are 11+ yrs old have at one point in time had some kind of massive failure. The percentages jump when you head up to 15+.

10 yrs is a reasonable assumption of a standard life for a high performance abused watercraft, before it hits some kind of expensive failure.

 

[benjilafouine]

Maybe it was a positive message (hey, it will last a decade, that is good), but for others, it may sound negative. I experienced the negative side of it this past summer as my ski was 12 years old. As for parts, the rotary valve cover on my ski was slightly scratched so they wanted to put a new one. However, the part was no more available directly from BRB so they polished it and put it back on the ski (so far so good). I am sure if I wanted to change the cover, I could find one somewhere on the Internet. But BRP will not order from the Internet. If they can't have it from BRP, then they won't order it. This is why they do not want to maintain older machines.

Benji.

 

[LawnDart]

Who takes their old skis to the dealer? Not many I bet. It would be a losing business plan for BRP to support that demographic. Besides, between this forum and the internet almost everything anyone would need is available. I found brand new OEM rubber hood straps for my 22 year old ski on ebay.

 

[benjilafouine]

As long as you have time and/or have the knowledge to work on it yourself. And I had no one who would fix my ski around my cottage. Just a dealer... Mine was borderline I admit.

Benji.

 

[motox25]

My dealer has started the process of cleaning their hands of working on the older 2 strokes. They still do winterizations but recommend places much farther away for the bigger tasks. That (and the high cost) is 1 reason I've started doing the work on them myself. I love my 2 stroke skis and will keep them going as long as I have the parts and patience!

 

[racerxxx]

I love how they cleaned their hands of the "older" 2 strokes cause Skidoo still is putting 2 strokes in sleds to this day.

 

[motox25]

My dealer has started the process of cleaning their hands of working on the older 2 strokes. They still do winterizations but recommend places much farther away for the bigger tasks. That (and the high cost) is 1 reason I've started doing the work on them myself. I love my 2 stroke skis and will keep them going as long as I have the parts and patience!

 

[speedy steve]

i don't think thats to accurate i have a 97 boat that runs gr8 knock on wood there losers to stop working on their own products even though they still produce 2stroke sleds but with proper maintenance ur machine should last a lot longer then that

 

[1of500]

Dealers choose to not work on them. From a business standpoint like sportster said it doesn't make sense for them to keep working on them. A few years ago I had some trans issues with my truck. It was a 1990 chevrolet silverado 5.7l with a 5 speed manual trans getrag 290 iirc. I could not find but 2 ppl in the whole state that would even touch the trans. The trans shops I called all outsourced to these few people. I took it directly to a guy north of Atlanta one man shop all he builds is manuals Georgia Precision Gear. Very happy with his work. The point is when new technology takes over the people who know the old stuff eventually retire.

 

[benjilafouine]

There is old, and there is very old. I agree that after 25 years, any dealer won't work on machines but after 12 years, it is a bit premature IMO.

Benji

 

[1of500]

Most water craft are not maintained properly. 80%of people ride them until they break just putting gas and oil in them. Then some people keep operating when they know something is not right and ask why did it break.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[CReynoldsMIZ]

Another problem is that during these last ten years, the type of engine has COMPLETELY changed. While it is not as drastic as say going from steam engines to gas powered, it is an outdated technology and companies don't put their resources in outdated stuff. Just the way it works.

 

[Mickirig1]

My Oldest Son is a fully certified SAE mechanic. He can not begin to work on Carberated or Point driven Ignition engines. Give him an engine he can scan it can be fixed. The old stuff is left to the old guys. We are retiring and no one is trained to replace us.

 

[benjilafouine]

We're slowly getting outdated ourselves...

Benji.

 

[1of500]

Maybe you are I keep getting better

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk