Stuck Head Bolts 787

[etemplet]

I called SES about an engine today and discussed the head bolts and not being able to get them out. The gentleman told me they can get them out. There isn't much I don't know about broken equipment. LOL but dang if I know how to reliably get the bolts out of these jet ski heads and parts. I don't have a ton of experience with aluminum other than knowing how to curse it out. I tried a few tricks on the last ski and got a couple out. Today I put some heat on the bolts and loosened a couple. I don't think heat is the answer. I know of a chemical that may work but you gotta be able to get it in there. I believe and ultra sonic device would do the trick the best. If it is a double secret a PM is good for me.

 

[GGuillot]

Machine shops use things like this...https://www.amazon.com/Craftsman-Damaged-Remover-Profile-Bolt-out/dp/B00LU8RTVY?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_3

Soak it with penetrate then jam on it with the impact gun. Harbor Freight sells a decent set of 1/2" to 3/8" impact extensions to reach down into the cylinders.

I don't know any secrets to remove them other than special removal sockets, punch/drill/tap, and drill/extract bit. Drilling options would be difficult because of the depth into the cylinder. I think your only viable option may be the special removal socket.

 

[mikidymac]

Don't use an impact as you will just shear the bolt off at the cylinder surface. You also can't get any penetrating fluid down there because the head shell blocks it. If you filled the coolant area with it there is a slight chance it might make it in and can't hurt anything.

The only ones that have ever broken on me was when I was in a hurry and tried the impact. The three I tried all broke off at the cylinder where the threads stopped. All the ones I have ever done by hand with slow constant pressure cam out clean.

You also can't get any heat in there because you are heating the entire cylinder.

Your best bet it to hit the head of the bolt with a hammer a few times to shock it then very slowly with a breaker bar apply constant pressure.

If it is a fresh water ski they will typically come out but if it is a salt turd most will probably break.

This is probably the reason the factory greased the threads and used loctite under the bolt heads.

 

[GGuillot]

Don't use an impact as you will just shear the bolt off at the cylinder surface. You also can't get any penetrating fluid down there because the head shell blocks it. If you filled the coolant area with it there is a slight chance it might make it in and can't hurt anything.

The only ones that have ever broken on me was when I was in a hurry and tried the impact. The three I tried all broke off at the cylinder where the threads stopped. All the ones I have ever done by hand with slow constant pressure cam out clean.

You also can't get any heat in there because you are heating the entire cylinder.

Your best bet it to hit the head of the bolt with a hammer a few times to shock it then very slowly with a breaker bar apply constant pressure.

If it is a fresh water ski they will typically come out but if it is a salt turd most will probably break.

This is probably the reason the factory greased the threads and used loctite under the bolt heads.

Assuming it breaks....not all is lost, the good thing is now you have room. What has worked for me on stuck automotive exhaust manifold bolts/studs that break off is carefully cut it flush with the head then center punch it, then drill, then work either an extract bit or thread tap it.

 

[etemplet]

If it is a fresh water ski they will typically come out but if it is a salt turd most will probably break.

This is probably the reason the factory greased the threads and used loctite under the bolt heads.

I agree. I'm suppose to be an expert on getting these things out. Every circumstance is different though. and as you say difficult to get to the threaded area... dang near impossible. I was looking at the cover today and I'm hatching another plan. You actually mentioned putting penetrant in the water section. I'm gonna go with another concoction.
Lots of skis in this area have been in the salt water and I gotta figure a way to get these bolts out with some consistency. When I buy a ski to resell, I just put the impact on them and break them off, throw the cylinders away. Generally I don't take any time with this crap but I'm trying to save a friend some money and wasting my time. LOL

I got a slick little idea though but it has to work 12 times. I use some serious heat... that's the only way to go but the bolt is long. You can actually shrink a bolt using heat and water. On steel that works pretty well sometimes. With the oxidized aluminum.... not so much. Needs to vibrate.

Thanks again for the input.

 

[mikidymac]

Break them off then just helicoil. The carbide drill bits are Tap Magic works great on the stainless bolts.

 

[etemplet]

You da man !! You do good work !! I was worried about breaking the seal on the cylinder sleeve. Is there an o-ring in there?? Kinda tight next to the sleeve... good job !! I think I may have 6 bolts broken loose now.

 

[etemplet]

The only ones that have ever broken on me was when I was in a hurry and tried the impact. The three I tried all broke off at the cylinder where the threads stopped. All the ones I have ever done by hand with slow constant pressure cam out clean.

You also can't get any heat in there because you are heating the entire cylinder.

Your best bet it to hit the head of the bolt with a hammer a few times to shock it then very slowly with a breaker bar apply constant pressure.

If it is a fresh water ski they will typically come out but if it is a salt turd most will probably break.

This is probably the reason the factory greased the threads and used loctite under the bolt heads.

Yessir you are correct.

I'd love them to break off up high so I can get them out after I remove the head. The last one of these I did, I had to use the sawzall to cut the head to pieces as even with the bolts broken off I could not removed the head.. ANYWAY. I got 6 removed and 2 more moving. Heating cherry red on the bolt, penetrating oil and such. I am going to fill up the cavity now because with a lot of the bolts out and loose it might be easier for it to get in there. This is my test engine.... I am trying to devise a process that will be 100% and not too time consuming.

Putting the engine in a vat of hot oil for a few days might do the trick maybe.

 

[tobytd]

When bolts are red hot apply candle wax (paraffin) then let cool all the way. Hot wax penetrates threads and lubes. Careful with the wax when applying it will light (flames).

 

[etemplet]

I think I'm gonna call these "hand grenade" engines. LOL

 

[mikidymac]

There is no o-ring between the sleeve and cylinders. The head seals on the groove in the sleeve.

 

[etemplet]

Cool good to know thanks.

 

[racerxxx]

You want the right process? Get a milling machine.

Indicate the bore, calculate the bolt circle, and go to town. Doesn't everyone have one of these in their garage? I know I couldn't live without mine. This is hands down the easiest and cleanest way.

 

[etemplet]

That is a very nice machine. DRO is cheating, kills brain cells, and eye focusing skills.

 

[racerxxx]

That is a very nice machine. DRO is cheating, kills brain cells, and eye focusing skills.

Lol, I'm not counting when I man created things to do it for me. I guess my pneumatic draw bar is cheating too?

 

[etemplet]

Those mills used to be reasonably priced on the used market but I always worked where I had access to machines so it didn't matter. Now that I am retired it would be nice but I have a friend with a shop. I have a balance machine that can take 10k pounds that is not set up.

 

[etemplet]

Well I got 9 stuck bolts out. I guess I did pretty good as every one of them would have broken I am sure. This was my proofing the process. I now know what I know.... been there done that.

 

[etemplet]

Will do better next time. Good or bad... I got more engines that need this.