Starter works fine w/o spark plugs. How long can I run engine w/o water? Is 5 sec.OK?

[car5car]

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When I install spark plugs starter cannot crank. Oil sprays a lot from plug holes when it cranks w/o spark plugs. It seems to me that engine filled with oil. Can oil pump be stuck in high delivery position? Can muffler be filled with oil?

Can I run engine w/o water for 5 seconds?

 

[robin savell lloyd]

I would have to say yes on run time. but I am waiting to hear from others on oil problem. sounds like oil problem is causeing too high of compresion and starting problem. good luck robin

 

[seadoosnipe]

Oil tank?

How much oil are you using from your tank? Sounds to me that either one or both of your rotary chamber seals are shot. If so, you be using a lot of oil from that tank.

 

[car5car]

Compression is good. Does it help?

 

[seadoosnipe]

Not really.....

The rotary shaft seals are in the middle of the crank, where the rotary shaft is geared to it. This chamber is filled with oil. If they are leaking by, this is probably the source of your excessive oil, since the oil injection pump isn't capable of pumping that much to your cylinders.
Compression has nothing to do with it..........except if your pistons are filling up with large amounts of oil, you can do serious damage to the rings.......the combustion chamber is meant for compressing gases, not liquids......
Again, are you using a lot of oil in your injection tank?

 

[kustomkarl]

:agree: Sounds like the seals are bad to me also...for run time you can run it for a about 30 seconds but not too long without it on the flush hose. Even then it isn't good to run it longer than a couple minutes as the impeller bearings arn't getting any cooling from the water, sitting on the trailer.

Karl

 

[car5car]

Again, are you using a lot of oil in your injection tank?

I don't know. I never took the boat to water somwhere. I started both engines about a year ago, they where fine.
Engines cannot get more oil than oil pump deliver I think.
What am I supposed to see when I crank w/o spark plugs? Spray of gas and oil?

 

[Dennis]

Engine Oil

You're not not supposed to see much of anything when you spin the engine over with the plugs out. You need to decide what is coming out the spark plug holes... oil?...gas?...or both? SEADOOSNIPES #5 post is absolutely correct and if it is mostly oil coming out of the spark plug holes that would explain why. If it's mostly gas then then you have carb problems. It's probably oil your seeing.
DAWG

 

[kustomkarl]

Give us an update and let us know how you making out so we can help you.

Karl

 

[seadoosnipe]

Rotary Shaft.....

The rotary shaft chamber has nothing to do with the oil pump. Look on the side of the engine, you'll see the hoses. Then, trace them back. The oil pump supplies the engine lubrication through the fuel........

 

[kustomkarl]

:agree: I agree with seadoosnipe. If you see oil it isn't from the oil pump, but the rotary seals allowing oil to seep into the crank area in a large amount.

Karl

 

[car5car]

Thanks, guys.
This is what I cannot understand:
The only oil engine can get is from oil pump. That means if engine spits out oil w/o decreasing amount pump is delivering too much. Even if engine has 100 holes everywhere the only sourse is oil pump.
I will keep cranking engine hoping oil will gets out enough to start engine. Another thing I will do is to see if oil pump lever is stuck in full throttle position.
If oil pump leaks oil when engine stoped, oil should finally get out. I will read book again.

 

[robin savell lloyd]

I do believe seadoosnipe is correct on this one. there is a large oil line that goes to rotary valve. it is only to lubercate the rotary valve gear. this is where I beleive you may be losing your oil. there are seals in this area that are probly leaking. you can test seals by applying 5 psi of air preasure and see if you have a psi drop. not all of what i have said may be correct so check into this for your self. good luck robin

 

[seadoosnipe]

Oil pump?

Once more, like myself and RobinSavelloyd has said, the oil pump has "NOTHING" to do with the oil in your engine if it's passing through the seals of the rotary chamber.
There are two seals on the crankshaft, one on either side of the rotary shaft. You can go to my thread "a look inside the 787" and see a picture of this shaft. Here's the link http://www.seadooforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50&d=1193271699...now, if you notice, on either side of this gear, which looking at it one of them is the rotary shaft and the other is the crankshaft. Those greenish colored disks you see are the oil seals. This area is filled with oil that has NOTHING to do with your oil pump...........
Please, look into this, it is not a part of your engines oil pump.

 

[robin savell lloyd]

being it has been a year since it has been ran you might get lucky and get the oil out of the crank case and cylinder by spining engine over with the spark plugs out and leak may be so minor that you may not notice it. just a litle wishfull thinking. but if it sits again for a length of time you may see this happen again. good luck

 

[car5car]

Thanks. I'll fix it somehow.

 

[ScubaDoo]

Seals need replacing.

Thanks. I'll fix it somehow.

The correct way to prevent the oil seals from leaking is to do a major repair and replace the seals on the case of the rotary chamber. It's not a hard repair but it requires quite a bit of mechanical skills and a couple special tools.

ScubaDoo

 

[Jay Nesbitt]

Hi, I just registered..looking for a rotary valve for a 97 GTS..anyway I found this thread. I could relate, as I have been through this scenario...My ski started and ran ok until it sat for some months, then when I went to start it it would be hydraulacilly locked...oil...I'd pull the plugs and finally get enough oil out to fire a cylinder..then 2...All the info I found pointed to the crank seals on the rotary drive cavity...until I found one reference who said he had fixed several boats with suspected bed seals and NOT A ONE WAS BAD.. the culprit was the loctite 518 used to seal the case halves.It had deteriorated over time. I pulled the motor, split, and resealed with Yamabond (I am more used to working on motorcycles and had some)reassembled, pressure tested, and have been running the engine with no more oil related problems...no more dreaded oil build up in the case......but all that spinning the starter clearing oil has killed the starter,so I was changing the starter and chanced to measure the RV clearance...and it was too big...so...
I Hope this info is helpful to you!!!!
JN

 

[scrump]

Need to change Seals

car5car,

These guys know what they are talking about, I am fairly new to this forum and have been helped several times in only a matter of two weeks. The advice is here for the taking, I have seen some of their credentials and they are definitly qualified. I think you probably have to bite the bullet and tear this engine apart to get this problem solved. The cool thing is that when you do start working on this project they are here to answer questions that might arise while changing out the seals. Again, I have learned to trust the advice on this sight due to my success in solving the problems that I have had.

Good Luck,

Scott

 

[kustomkarl]

Sometimes You Get Lucky...Sometimes not...

Welcome to the seadoo forum J. N.. I am glad that that fix resolved your problem. The pressure test is a good way to check it out too, before you go and put it back in the hull. I have found that most times it is just bad seals in the Rotary chamber, and they need replacing. I would hate to install the engine only to find out that it is doing it again in a couple weeks. Then it is re-do time and it bites, the second time around.:ack:

Karl