Rhode Island help near by?

[tomant]

Hello all, let me start this convo of by saying I'm not engine savvy BUT can do relatively easy jobs & follow direction.

I recently acquired a 2003 Seadoo Challenger 2000 with a Merc M2 Jet drive V6 EFI.

The boat starts right up however is currently smoking pretty heavy (thick white smoke that lingers) . I have called around to aprox 25 mechanics (marinas, seadoo dealers, independent mechanics, trade schools, power sport places ) in the Massachusetts & RI area (I have also called local trade schools to see if they could help) and I've had EVERY person tell me they don't work on Jet drive. The only advice I was given was to bypass the auto mixing and mix the oil and gas myself - this does not seem like a solution that Is viable and I have not tried it. (Doesn't mean I'm correct here but if it's electronicly mixed in assuming it will cause other issues).

Now, I understand seedoo stoped making these and parts are hard to come by but I'm starting to lose hope I can get this fixed.

I guess I'm here because i don't know where else to turn to see if anyone knows someone that will work on them in the area OR if someone can help me directly with the problem?

Thanks in advance for any support.

T

 

[ripcuda]

Welcome. I have same boat/engine.

The recommendation to disconnect the auto-oiler (oil pump) and premix is actually a highly recommended modification... due to the fact that the plastic gears on the crank that drive the oil pump get old and brittle with age and will fail causing the oil pump to cease pumping... which will cause catastrophic damage to your engine. That said, while troubleshooting... you might leave it as-is until you get it running right.

How long has/had the boat sat before you got it and started it? Looks like you are starting on the trailer... are you connecting the hose while running it? If not, limit start-run to less than a minute... and avoid throttling up... idle only. If it sat a while... the engine might just need a good running (on water) to get up to full temp and to "clear its throat" and burn/expel the excess oil that accumulated. That would be best case.

Is it possible the fuel tank is premixed (maybe by accident) and your auto-injecting oil... thus double-oil... and smokey?

There is a linkage rod that connects to the oil pump and to the throttle mechanism. More throttle = more oil. If this linkage came disconnected... the pump is designed to default to max-oil... and would be pretty smokey at idle. Worth a check.

Other maintenance items you should check/do: replace fuel filter/water separator. check lift pump (square one) pre-filter and/or replace. Test fuel pressure on top the VST (should be 35psi). Compression test your engine... looking for even compression on all 6. New spark plugs. Rebuild the pulse-driven fuel pump (diaphram kits are affordable) if unknown how old. Test voltage at battery with engine running... greater than 14v and you likely have a failed voltage regulator (2 on this engine... replace in pairs... I'm on my 2nd set)... this engine is rough on VRs. Pull the common power and ground lugs and clean/sand all terminal ends for good power and grounds. These are things I would do to a new-to-me boat with this engine.

Cheers!

 

[tomant]

Welcome. I have same boat/engine.

The recommendation to disconnect the auto-oiler (oil pump) and premix is actually a highly recommended modification... due to the fact that the plastic gears on the crank that drive the oil pump get old and brittle with age and will fail causing the oil pump to cease pumping... which will cause catastrophic damage to your engine. That said, while troubleshooting... you might leave it as-is until you get it running right.

How long has/had the boat sat before you got it and started it? Looks like you are starting on the trailer... are you connecting the hose while running it? If not, limit start-run to less than a minute... and avoid throttling up... idle only. If it sat a while... the engine might just need a good running (on water) to get up to full temp and to "clear its throat" and burn/expel the excess oil that accumulated. That would be best case.

Is it possible the fuel tank is premixed (maybe by accident) and your auto-injecting oil... thus double-oil... and smokey?

There is a linkage rod that connects to the oil pump and to the throttle mechanism. More throttle = more oil. If this linkage came disconnected... the pump is designed to default to max-oil... and would be pretty smokey at idle. Worth a check.

Other maintenance items you should check/do: replace fuel filter/water separator. check lift pump (square one) pre-filter and/or replace. Test fuel pressure on top the VST (should be 35psi). Compression test your engine... looking for even compression on all 6. New spark plugs. Rebuild the pulse-driven fuel pump (diaphram kits are affordable) if unknown how old. Test voltage at battery with engine running... greater than 14v and you likely have a failed voltage regulator (2 on this engine... replace in pairs... I'm on my 2nd set)... this engine is rough on VRs. Pull the common power and ground lugs and clean/sand all terminal ends for good power and grounds. These are things I would do to a new-to-me boat with this engine.

Cheers!

Ripcuda, thank you for the response. Here are some responses to your comments:

1.I'm sorry for the ignorance but where would Locate the linkage, and what is the general visual description of what it would look like (bad and good)?

2. I obtained the boat at the end of last season and it was only run a few times on water last year. (But I did run it occasionally on the trailer at home)

3. Any time ive run it on the trailer it was only for a short period, hose attached and never above idol.

4. I bought a fuel pressure tester today and will be testing the fuel pressure later next week (I'm charging the battery today and starting tomorrow traveling until Wednesday for work).

5. The boat came from someone who knew the gas and oil would mix and wouldn't pre-mix separately (this i'm confident about)

6. Next week I will also pull the plugs and pressure test.

7. The other stuff I am going to have to dig into more to feel confident (locating and processes associated in attempting since I'm attempting all this for the first time and green.

 

[tomant]

(Scratch this part, unless there's something to add, I think the picture attached explains)

1.I'm sorry for the ignorance but where would Locate the linkage, and what is the general visual description of what it would look like (bad and good)?

 

[Tim75]

After all your phone calls, now you know the purpose of this forum. We are all DIYers.

Ripcuda is correct on everything he said.
I would add-
if you don't have the service book, then get one. You are going to need it.
Check the rubber bellows at the shift and steering links at the jet nozzle. These rubbers keep the water out of your control cables.
The oil pump in the pic is tucked in behind the VST (the gray tank , port side). Something else to learn- port vs starboard.
As shown in the pic, the pump arm should be at 9:00 at idle. Pump arm should move with throttle lever.

You mentioned white smoke. Usually associated with a coolant leak. Or crack. Or bad head gasket. Letting water into the combustion chamber.

Pulse driven fuel pump is also tucked in close to block. Port side. Follow the fuel hoses.

Seadoo stopped making this boat/engine combo. But the engine is just a Mercury 2.5L powerhead. The jet is also made by Mercury. Most parts are still available, but getting very expensive. I can think of 1 part that is over $600 and it is a wear part.

 

[tomant]

Welcome. I have same boat/engine.

The recommendation to disconnect the auto-oiler (oil pump) and premix is actually a highly recommended modification... due to the fact that the plastic gears on the crank that drive the oil pump get old and brittle with age and will fail causing the oil pump to cease pumping... which will cause catastrophic damage to your engine. That said, while troubleshooting... you might leave it as-is until you get it running right.

How long has/had the boat sat before you got it and started it? Looks like you are starting on the trailer... are you connecting the hose while running it? If not, limit start-run to less than a minute... and avoid throttling up... idle only. If it sat a while... the engine might just need a good running (on water) to get up to full temp and to "clear its throat" and burn/expel the excess oil that accumulated. That would be best case.

Is it possible the fuel tank is premixed (maybe by accident) and your auto-injecting oil... thus double-oil... and smokey?

There is a linkage rod that connects to the oil pump and to the throttle mechanism. More throttle = more oil. If this linkage came disconnected... the pump is designed to default to max-oil... and would be pretty smokey at idle. Worth a check.

Other maintenance items you should check/do: replace fuel filter/water separator. check lift pump (square one) pre-filter and/or replace. Test fuel pressure on top the VST (should be 35psi). Compression test your engine... looking for even compression on all 6. New spark plugs. Rebuild the pulse-driven fuel pump (diaphram kits are affordable) if unknown how old. Test voltage at battery with engine running... greater than 14v and you likely have a failed voltage regulator (2 on this engine... replace in pairs... I'm on my 2nd set)... this engine is rough on VRs. Pull the common power and ground lugs and clean/sand all terminal ends for good power and grounds. These are things I would do to a new-to-me boat with this engine.

Cheers!

Next Update:

@ripcuda Back from work travel and caught a minute in-between rain and 9 yr old birthday parties to check the fuel pressure. When the key is turned on but not started the fuel pressure hits 10psi and holds. (I think I read somewhere this is low?)

I have not yet been able to start the boat this season as I couldn't charge the battery when I was away (hopefully tomorrow after a deep cycle).

 

[tomant]

After all your phone calls, now you know the purpose of this forum. We are all DIYers.

Ripcuda is correct on everything he said.
I would add-
if you don't have the service book, then get one. You are going to need it.
Check the rubber bellows at the shift and steering links at the jet nozzle. These rubbers keep the water out of your control cables.
The oil pump in the pic is tucked in behind the VST (the gray tank , port side). Something else to learn- port vs starboard.
As shown in the pic, the pump arm should be at 9:00 at idle. Pump arm should move with throttle lever.

You mentioned white smoke. Usually associated with a coolant leak. Or crack. Or bad head gasket. Letting water into the combustion chamber.

Pulse driven fuel pump is also tucked in close to block. Port side. Follow the fuel hoses.

Seadoo stopped making this boat/engine combo. But the engine is just a Mercury 2.5L powerhead. The jet is also made by Mercury. Most parts are still available, but getting very expensive. I can think of 1 part that is over $600 and it is a wear part.

Thank you @Tim75

 

[ripcuda]

Next Update:

@ripcuda Back from work travel and caught a minute in-between rain and 9 yr old birthday parties to check the fuel pressure. When the key is turned on but not started the fuel pressure hits 10psi and holds. (I think I read somewhere this is low?)

I have not yet been able to start the boat this season as I couldn't charge the battery when I was away (hopefully tomorrow after a deep cycle).

Yes. 10psi is too low... I can't imagine it will start. Should be ~35psi. So could be a failing VST pump. But check for sufficient fuel in the VST... perhaps the VST pump is starving for fuel.

 

[tomant]

Yes. 10psi is too low... I can't imagine it will start. Should be ~35psi. So could be a failing VST pump. But check for sufficient fuel in the VST... perhaps the VST pump is starving for fuel.

@ripcuda

Ok, got some time today to get things moving.

- Replaced plugs (soiled)
- Replaced battery on the port side.

Fuel pressure test
- 35psi

Compression test. (I belive i did this wrong?)
Tested one cylinder at a time, starting the boat and letting it run at idle (1000 rpms) for aprox 20 seconds each time (enough for the pressure to stop increasing)

Starboard
- top cylinder = 151

- middle cylinder = inconsistent results
*first try = 130 but dropped to zero immediately.
*second try = 30 psi but Did not hold when the engine was killed.
* 3rd try (after a break when checking the remaining cylinders)= Held at 130
*4th try = 30psi and lost pressure when killed.
*5th and 6th try = held at 130

Bottom cylinder: 140

Port side

Top cylinder: 140

middle cylinder: 139

Bottom cylinder: 120


Other:
Before i could get the boat started (needed to replace the battery) Lots of clicking from the part circled in yellow in the attached pictures.

Last owner said the boat used quite a bit of gas and oil and would go through a tank in an hour or two of water skiing/tubing.

Bottom Starboard cylinder had a plug that was noticeably more soild then the others. (See attached photo)

Also put in picture of smoke after changing the plugs.

Still haven't located that linkage as I ran out of time.

 

[ripcuda]

Compression tests are done without starting/running the engine... only cranking with the starter. That said... you did get compression numbers your way... and they all seem in the same ballpark... at least none were zero or very low... which would indicate a problem cylinder. A better method is to pull all the spark plugs (allows engine to spin over easier... makes starters job easier). Then unplug the round injectors connector on the intake manifold so no fuel will spray while cranking. Then open throttle to max and test each cylinder. Cranking engine over by starter until pressure stops rising (usually 3-4 secs)... record #... repeat for each cylinder.

Fuel pressure 35psi... good.
-- when you tested... after the VST pump turned off (or you turned off key)... did it hold pressure? Or did the fuel pressure drop fast? A fast fuel pressure drop could indicate 1 or more leaking fuel injectors (I had a few of those... that can make hot restarts difficult... because it's flooded due to leaking fuel injectors).

New spark plugs... good.

Port side battery? My battery sits on the pilot-side/starboard-side of the boat.

The clicking you hear is the lift/primer fuel pump... the square one circled (clicking is normal). It's job is to prime the fuel lines (same job as a squeeze fuel bulb) when the key is turned to run. Once the engine starts... the pulse fuel pump takes over fuel delivery job (fuel tank thru filters to VST).

Yes... the boat will suck down some fuel... when run hard... but the estimate given by former owner seems high.

You really need to get this boat in the water to run it and to see about the smoke clearing out. Lots of trailer idling will build up excessive fuel/oil in the engine. It needs to run fully up to temp and run to full throttle to "clear its throat"... to determine if smoking continues. Plus you'll be able to see max RPM, max speed, if there are any cooling issues (when in the water running, ensure the pisser on rear left side is squirting... if this line is blocked engine can overheat), if the battery is charging proper while running, etc.

Cheers!

 

[tomant]

Compression tests are done without starting/running the engine... only cranking with the starter. That said... you did get compression numbers your way... and they all seem in the same ballpark... at least none were zero or very low... which would indicate a problem cylinder. A better method is to pull all the spark plugs (allows engine to spin over easier... makes starters job easier). Then unplug the round injectors connector on the intake manifold so no fuel will spray while cranking. Then open throttle to max and test each cylinder. Cranking engine over by starter until pressure stops rising (usually 3-4 secs)... record #... repeat for each cylinder.

Fuel pressure 35psi... good.
-- when you tested... after the VST pump turned off (or you turned off key)... did it hold pressure? Or did the fuel pressure drop fast? A fast fuel pressure drop could indicate 1 or more leaking fuel injectors (I had a few of those... that can make hot restarts difficult... because it's flooded due to leaking fuel injectors).

New spark plugs... good.

Port side battery? My battery sits on the pilot-side/starboard-side of the boat.

The clicking you hear is the lift/primer fuel pump... the square one circled (clicking is normal). It's job is to prime the fuel lines (same job as a squeeze fuel bulb) when the key is turned to run. Once the engine starts... the pulse fuel pump takes over fuel delivery job (fuel tank thru filters to VST).

Yes... the boat will suck down some fuel... when run hard... but the estimate given by former owner seems high.

You really need to get this boat in the water to run it and to see about the smoke clearing out. Lots of trailer idling will build up excessive fuel/oil in the engine. It needs to run fully up to temp and run to full throttle to "clear its throat"... to determine if smoking continues. Plus you'll be able to see max RPM, max speed, if there are any cooling issues (when in the water running, ensure the pisser on rear left side is squirting... if this line is blocked engine can overheat), if the battery is charging proper while running, etc.

Cheers!

Thanks for the reply,

Should I be worried that the the second cylinder down on the Starboard side was so inconsistent?

As far at the fuel pressure goes it held pressure but dropped from 35 to 30 and held.

I have a battery on the Port and Starboard side.

Next step is to get out in the water however that will be a few weeks you while my tow vehicle is getting repaired at the body shop.

I appreciate all of the help.

 

[ripcuda]

Retest the questionable cylinder to be sure. The compression tester should have a schrader valve (check valve) in it... so it will pump up... but should never go down (release pressure) until you press the button on the tester. So your report of pressure going up then down... sounds like a bad pressure tester... or make-shift version w/o check valve.

Re: fuel pressure... good to hear your pressure is holding. On mine with leaking injectors... pressure bled-off quickly to zero.

Re: batteries... do you have the dual battery setup where one regulator charges one battery each? I have the single battery configuration where both regulators tie into the same battery. Either way... you'll want to ensure the voltage at the battery when idling is above 13v... below 15v. To ensure you have good regulators. My last dead regulator gave me 15+ volts while running (climbing with increased RPM)... thus it was easy to spot as bad.

Cheers!