My newest addition to feed my addiction...1995 XP

[dougamclean]

So I'm back again with more questions..

I've recently starting a bit of a Seadoo horde!! I've done this before over the years with Honda ATCs, outboard motors, snowmobiles, motorcycles..pretty much anything with a motor.

I buy, I fix, I learn, I play with and sell..it's a lot of fun and I've owned some pretty amazing machines over the years.

So anyway, now it's PWCs..I have at present, 2 - SP587(yellows), GTX787, GTS 717 and just recently a 95XP..

Why the 95? Because all accounts said the 1st year XP717 was the one to have..so I sought one and picked it up today.

It's in great shape and will make another fun winter project, though it is a runner already and just needs some sprucing up..

So back to the point..

Why does my seemingly original 95 XP, except for the seat cover, have a 657X under the hood?

Is there any chance this was a factory setup or simply a motor swap by a previous owner?

 

[burtshaver2021]

Someone did a motor swap. Where are you from? That looks familiar, I mean they did make more then one 95XP but I’ve seen one listed with a black seat in my area.

 

[dougamclean]

Someone did a motor swap. Where are you from? That looks familiar, I mean they did make more then one 95XP but I’ve seen one listed with a black seat in my area.

I'm in southern Ontario..just picked up today on FB Marketplace today about 60km from me. It's likely the same one you've seen..it had been posted for several months.

Nice kid, just needed to get it gone..a great off season deal!!

What do you mean 'they did make more than one 95XP'?

 

[burtshaver2021]

What do you mean 'they did make more than one 95XP'

When I was saying I think I seen this one, I meant it could be a different one since they made more than one.
Although they did make more than 1 95XP, they made the one here like you have that comes with a 717 and they also made a 95.5 XP with a 787, the one with the half pink bottom hull, yellow upper hull.

 

[dougamclean]

When I was saying I think I seen this one, I meant it could be a different one since they made more than one.
Although they did make more than 1 95XP, they made the one here like you have that comes with a 717 and they also made a 95.5 XP with a 787, the one with the half pink bottom hull, yellow upper hull.

Right, the XP800 as it called..I've seen that too.

Well 717 or 657x, I suppose it makes no difference..she pretty and when I'm done I've a nice fleet to play with!!

Thanks again for the help..

 

[Loganab13]

Nice ski. 95’s are the year to have IMO. Someone must have done an engine swap along the way. Nothing wrong with the 657X, just a little underpowered when compared to the 717. Fair warning, vintage two strokes are addicting!

I’m currently working on restoring a 95 XP800 with a 787x motor.



You might ask the mods to move this to the 2 stroke forum rather than the Spark forum.

 

[dougamclean]

Nice ski. 95’s are the year to have IMO. Someone must have done an engine swap along the way. Nothing wrong with the 657X, just a little underpowered when compared to the 717. Fair warning, vintage two strokes are addicting!

I’m currently working on restoring a 95 XP800 with a 787x motor.

View attachment 68911

You might ask the mods to move this to the 2 stroke forum rather than the Spark forum.

According to the specs the 717 and 657x are quite close in HP rating...85hp vs 80hp. So not that different..

I guess I'll find out when I get it back in the water in the spring!!

Now that XP800...that will have to be my next find!!! Good on you...

 

[Loganab13]

According to the specs the 717 and 657x are quite close in HP rating...85hp vs 80hp. So not that different..

I guess I'll find out when I get it back in the water in the spring!!

Now that XP800...that will have to be my next find!!! Good on you...

Acceleration is really the main difference between the 657 and 717, otherwise they’re fairly close in power. They’re both a ton of fun though.

Thank you. This 800 took me four years to find and is probably the last ski I restore, unless I happen to come across a 99 SPX.

 

[burtshaver2021]

If the 657x and impeller is good you will be very happy with it. I’ve driven my brother in laws 94XP with the 657x and I have a 95XP with the 717. I couldn't even notice a difference. They are both a ton of fun

 

[dougamclean]

If the 657x and impeller is good you will be very happy with it. I’ve driven my brother in laws 94XP with the 657x and I have a 95XP with the 717. I couldn't even notice a difference. They are both a ton of fun

Thanks Burt..I'll be getting it into the shop in the coming days to start checking it out fully.

I did notice it has oil pump delete with a simple oil hose loop for the rotary gear sump..I may have to ask the group about the long issues with this. I don't mind the mix oil/gas and don't care about the addition oil consumption. More the long term reliability and durability of the rotary blade/gear..

Another question for another day I guess..and if it's anything like the 'which oil to use' discussions in my 3wheeler group, it could be interesting!!

 

[burtshaver2021]

Thanks Burt..I'll be getting it into the shop in the coming days to start checking it out fully.

I did notice it has oil pump delete with a simple oil hose loop for the rotary gear sump..I may have to ask the group about the long issues with this. I don't mind the mix oil/gas and don't care about the addition oil consumption. More the long term reliability and durability of the rotary blade/gear..

Another question for another day I guess..and if it's anything like the 'which oil to use' discussions in my 3wheeler group, it could be interesting!!

lol, there’s no adverse affects with pre mixing them except for the ones you mentioned, higher oil consumption and a bit of a pain. Do use the api-tc certified oil though. I learned my lesson with a weed trimmer. Used different oil other than the Sthil oil which is api-tc and it died with in a year, so the rating does mean something. You can get the proper oil online from Triax for a real good price

 

[dougamclean]

Thanks Burt..I'll be getting it into the shop in the coming days to start checking it out fully.

I did notice it has oil pump delete with a simple oil hose loop for the rotary gear sump..I may have to ask the group about the long issues with this. I don't mind the mix oil/gas and don't care about the addition oil consumption. More the long term reliability and durability of the rotary blade/gear..

Another question for another day I guess..and if it's anything like the 'which oil to use' discussions in my 3wheeler group, it could be interesting!!

Ah yes, the old oil discussions...so much fun!!

Anyway, I have an Evinrude E-tec outboard..a pretty high tech unit that uses this special X100 synthetic oil.

It's expensive, but I use it for all my 2strokes..outboards, sleds, chainsaws. It's pretty amazing stuff..I'm sure these old classic Seadoos will enjoy it too!!

My mention of the oil delete and using a oil filled hose loop as apposed to the oil tank was that this whole design is not as familiar to me..

Does the oil circulate by some means if the tank is present? A cooling effect for the crank and brass gear? Should I be good to just leave it as the previous person set it up on the loop?

Not that these old old units are super high tech, it just seems a bit bush fix!

 

[burtshaver2021]

The oil doesn’t circulate to and from the rotary valve, just as long as it always has oil which it should if its not leaking any past the inner crank seals. That loop system will be fine. If you like the looks better, you should be able to find an oil tank for it. 12mm oil line from the bottom of the tank goes to the intake side and another 12mm hose goes from the exhaust side to the top of the oil tank. I guess you would need to find a way to block the 8mm fitting from the oil tank that would normally go to the oil pump though

 

[burtshaver2021]

I will try not to preach about oil Lol but after doing a quick google search I see that it’s rated TC-W3. Seadoo actually puts a sticker on all these old 2 strokes saying not to use TCW-3. It will work, will it have as long of a life, no. Oddly, I bet you pay more for that XD-100 than you would for the API-TC

 

[burtshaver2021]

Sorry, lol. Also see it says no ash. You need some ash. Low ash is what you want

 

[dougamclean]

Thanks Burt..I'll be getting it into the shop in the coming days to start checking it out fully.

I did notice it has oil pump delete with a simple oil hose loop for the rotary gear sump..I may have to ask the group about the long issues with this. I don't mind the mix oil/gas and don't care about the addition oil consumption. More the long term reliability and durability of the rotary blade/gear..

Another question for another day I guess..and if it's anything like the 'which oil to use' discussions in my 3wheeler group, it could be interesting!!

The oil doesn’t circulate to and from the rotary valve, just as long as it always has oil which it should if its not leaking any past the inner crank seals. That loop system will be fine. If you like the looks better, you should be able to find an oil tank for it. 12mm oil line from the bottom of the tank goes to the intake side and another 12mm hose goes from the exhaust side to the top of the oil tank. I guess you would need to find a way to block the 8mm fitting from the oil tank that would normally go to the oil pump though

Thanks for the piece of mind..I'll likely just leave it as is.

Chances are I won't know it that long anyway!! I tend to buy them, clean them up and sell them..

I have as much fun or more working on them as riding anyway..

 

[dougamclean]

View attachment 68912
I will try not to preach about oil Lol but after doing a quick google search I see that it’s rated TC-W3. Seadoo actually puts a sticker on all these old 2 strokes saying not to use TCW-3. It will work, will it have as long of a life, no. Oddly, I bet you pay more for that XD-100 than you would for the API-TC

I don't know..I've used it a long time and never had an issue!! Check this out for interest...

Certification - TC-W3

I knew I'd open a can of worms...oil discussions always do!!

 

[burtshaver2021]

Thanks for the piece of mind..I'll likely just leave it as is.

Chances are I won't know it that long anyway!! I tend to buy them, clean them up and sell them..

I have as much fun or more working on them as riding anyway..

I like working on them, but I like riding them more.

 

[Loganab13]

TCW3 will be fine in a non-RAVE engine. I’ll probably catch some hate for that, but there’s been a 94 SPI in the family since the day it left the dealer floor and it’s used nothing but Quicksilver TCW3 oil it’s entire 31 years of life. Still runs just fine.

Do NOT use TCW3 in a 787 or 951 RAVE motor unless you want to tear down and clean/rebuild the rave valves every other ride.

 

[dougamclean]

I like working on them, but I like riding them more.

I hear you..but for me it's all about the hunt!!!

TCW3 will be fine in a non-RAVE engine. I’ll probably catch some hate for that, but there’s been a 94 SPI in the family since the day it left the dealer floor and it’s used nothing but Quicksilver TCW3 oil it’s entire 31 years of life. Still runs just fine.

Do NOT use TCW3 in a 787 or 951 RAVE motor unless you want to tear down and clean/rebuild the rave valves every other ride.

I've been doing some reading on the matter..I think I'm inclined to agree.

 

[burtshaver2021]

If there’s one quote from a forum that rings true it’s this, once someone has made up their mind it’s almost impossible to change it. Full synthetic for Rave valve engines, semi synthetic or even mineral oil for all other Seadoo 2T engines, both API-TC rated. Not trying to be smart but I’ve been reading the comments here. Why would BRP put stickers on these saying DO NOT USE TCW-3 ?

 

[Loganab13]

View attachment 68918
If there’s one quote from a forum that rings true it’s this, once someone has made up their mind it’s almost impossible to change it. Full synthetic for Rave valve engines, semi synthetic or even mineral oil for all other Seadoo 2T engines, both API-TC rated. Not trying to be smart but I’ve been reading the comments here. Why would BRP put stickers on these saying DO NOT USE TCW-3 ?

Because 90s oil was a completely different oil than today’s oil. API TC service classifications aren’t even in use anymore, and the current JASO FC standard is a higher standard than API TC ever was. If the oil meets JASO FC certification, it is by default a low ash oil and is 100% fine for use in a non-RAVE engine.

No one will ever settle the debate. 31 years of continuous TCW3 use without a single hiccup is worth something though.

 

[burtshaver2021]

Because 90s oil was a completely different oil than today’s oil. API TC service classifications aren’t even in use anymore, and the current JASO FC standard is a higher standard than API TC ever was. If the oil meets JASO FC certification, it is by default a low ash oil and is 100% fine for use in a non-RAVE engine.

No one will ever settle the debate. 31 years of continuous TCW3 use without a single hiccup is worth something though.

How many hours of use in 31 years? What do you think of the TCW-3 killing my brand new weed trimmer in under a year? I understand that the weed trimmer is air cooled, running high rpm’s and running hotter than our seadoo’s but does it not prove something? Does not it not prove that in extreme conditions like a high reving hot running 2T engine is protected better by the API-TC oil.? This isn’t just from my experience, it’s documented that, that rating of oil does exactly that. I don’t believe the TCW-3 and JASO-FC ratings are interchangeable. Perhaps an oil may have both ratings but I don’t believe they are interchangeable.
Anyways, This is all in good fun for me. I’m good with whatever oil anyone chooses to use of course.