How to correct for torque steer?
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Ken Inman
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I have been fighting this same issue with my 2002 Challenger 1800. 25 to 40 mph and the boat pulls hard left but levels out from 40 to 45 mph. Let off the throttle and it darts left. I added Smart Tabs, they helped with planing and porpoising, I even think it rides smoother in rough lake water but no matter how I adjusted them they made no difference in steering. I found a rock damaged stator vane that might be affecting water flow so I removed the stator and filed it smooth but still no change in steering. The ride plate had been adjusted lower on the starboard side so I set it to zero on both sides and it made no change. With my brother in law operating, Chanin observing and me skiing, it was obvious the boat leaned significantly to starboard and that caused a very turbulent wake on the starboard side.
I began playing with balance yesterday. Just sitting in the water with only me in the center back seat and 3 deflated pulling tubes on the port side, using a short level on the floor it showed the boat was leaning significantly to starboard. I then scooted to the port seat and it leveled up. (I weigh in at just about 160lbs) Chanin at 120lbs is not enough to counterbalance me when she is in the passenger's seat.
Yesterday while running about 30 mph, where the boat pulls left the worst, I moved out of my seat and crouched in the center of the boat. The difference was amazing, the boat leveled up and ran straight with no input on steering. I tried some different speeds and all was great. This would not be an issue if it wasn’t usually just Chanin and I, a third person could be used to level the boat. We even tried that using my sister and her husband. With my sister driving and my heavier brother in law in the passenger seat, Chanin in the middle the boat steered well and rode level (I was chasing in their boat). When my brother in law drove, it was best with Chanin on the port seat and my sister in the passenger seat.
Since I have already removed the oil injection system on the boat, last evening I moved the battery from starboard side as far to the port side as possible. I am hoping this change will be enough to level the boat. I also have about an inch I can move the fuel tank to port if necessary. If that is not enough I guess a duffle bag with sand or iron weights set on that side could be used for ballast. I’ll post how well the battery move worked this evening.
I began playing with balance yesterday. Just sitting in the water with only me in the center back seat and 3 deflated pulling tubes on the port side, using a short level on the floor it showed the boat was leaning significantly to starboard. I then scooted to the port seat and it leveled up. (I weigh in at just about 160lbs) Chanin at 120lbs is not enough to counterbalance me when she is in the passenger's seat.
Yesterday while running about 30 mph, where the boat pulls left the worst, I moved out of my seat and crouched in the center of the boat. The difference was amazing, the boat leveled up and ran straight with no input on steering. I tried some different speeds and all was great. This would not be an issue if it wasn’t usually just Chanin and I, a third person could be used to level the boat. We even tried that using my sister and her husband. With my sister driving and my heavier brother in law in the passenger seat, Chanin in the middle the boat steered well and rode level (I was chasing in their boat). When my brother in law drove, it was best with Chanin on the port seat and my sister in the passenger seat.
Since I have already removed the oil injection system on the boat, last evening I moved the battery from starboard side as far to the port side as possible. I am hoping this change will be enough to level the boat. I also have about an inch I can move the fuel tank to port if necessary. If that is not enough I guess a duffle bag with sand or iron weights set on that side could be used for ballast. I’ll post how well the battery move worked this evening.
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henryb
Active Member
You bring up a very interesting point. My boat also leans toward the starboard side... just sitting with no one on-board. I just figured it was all of the extra hardware that is on the drivers side... you have the battery, the steering and throttle cables, all of the gauges, the ECU and wiring in the drivers helm. Plus the fire extinguisher and tool container in the drivers storage compartment. Not to mention the 2 rear storage containers under the engine hood. So what I have done is swap the tool/fire extinguisher storage box over to the Port side and put the empty cooler on the driver side. I put the light weight stuff on the driver side storage box under the hood and the heavier stuff on the passenger side. I also try to keep the big oil reserve tank as full as possible (which is on the port side).
Still doing all of this, it does not sit completely level with no one on-board, but it is better. And I completely agree that with the right weight balance in the boat, say my 2 kids on the port side and me driving (which adds up to about 60lbs more on the port side), the boat does ride much flatter and steers straighter (still pulls left a bit... hopefully the offset nozzle will fix that). If you have a 2002 I would think you already have an offset nozzle, according the RiverPro, they were introduced in 2001 and I assume used in all model years after that?
Still doing all of this, it does not sit completely level with no one on-board, but it is better. And I completely agree that with the right weight balance in the boat, say my 2 kids on the port side and me driving (which adds up to about 60lbs more on the port side), the boat does ride much flatter and steers straighter (still pulls left a bit... hopefully the offset nozzle will fix that). If you have a 2002 I would think you already have an offset nozzle, according the RiverPro, they were introduced in 2001 and I assume used in all model years after that?
Ken Inman
New Member
After getting the battery moved I put it in the water for another test. With just me it leaned very slightly to starboard. With Chanin and I both in our seats it still leaned very slightly to starboard. At 20 to 30 mph it still pulled left significantly but no where near as bad as before. Above 30 mph it was great. I will next try to adjust the Smart Tabs to correct for it. If that does not work then I guess I will make some sand ballast bags to balance up the boat.
I don't know that we will get back in the water again today. It is very windy here in Indiana and much of Lake Monroe is white capping.
I don't know that we will get back in the water again today. It is very windy here in Indiana and much of Lake Monroe is white capping.
tight bolts
What you probably have are not "tight" bolts, but corroded bolts. HAND TOOLS ONLY here. Air tools can break a bolt in an instant. Banging on the bolts can break a casting. If you think you have problems now..... Liberally spray with penetrating oil (I use CRC Marine). Be patient-- 24 hours. A heat gun (NOT A TORCH) applied to stator where threads are may help. (Technically, the bolts are not corroded. The aluminum casting has corroded onto the bolts.) GOOD LUCK!
What you probably have are not "tight" bolts, but corroded bolts. HAND TOOLS ONLY here. Air tools can break a bolt in an instant. Banging on the bolts can break a casting. If you think you have problems now..... Liberally spray with penetrating oil (I use CRC Marine). Be patient-- 24 hours. A heat gun (NOT A TORCH) applied to stator where threads are may help. (Technically, the bolts are not corroded. The aluminum casting has corroded onto the bolts.) GOOD LUCK!
henryb
Active Member
Thank you very much... I was thinking the same thing (afterwards, hindsight is always 20/20) about "banging the wrench with a hammer" technique... I would have been really pissed if I broke the casting! Got it: penetrating oil to the max, be patient (I will probably leave it penetrate for a week between weekends), some heat, no torch, hand tools only = really big wrench!
I took for granted it was the rudder pivot bolts dealing you a fit; I've impacted hundreds of pivot-bolts w/o a problem. Is it the four nozzle to stator bolts you cannot get loose? If so, like said above, spray 'em and wait a while.
I am not saying my way is the only way, however my tool of choice is my trusty impact. If the bolts are corroded, fwd/reverse bursts works well. I shy away from heat, it doesn't take much to damage the powder coat. In 15 years, I cannot recall snapping the nozzle to stator bolts. However, I've snapped countless stator-wear ring to pump housing bolts. If the corrosion has weakened the long bolts, they need replaced anywayz, thus I hammer away. If they break, I warm what's left of the protruding bolts to loosen the lock tight/pop off the corrosion. (they'll most often snap in middle, leaving enough to grab hold of)
Again, I restate, my way is my way, doesn't mean it's the only or best way. KT
I am not saying my way is the only way, however my tool of choice is my trusty impact. If the bolts are corroded, fwd/reverse bursts works well. I shy away from heat, it doesn't take much to damage the powder coat. In 15 years, I cannot recall snapping the nozzle to stator bolts. However, I've snapped countless stator-wear ring to pump housing bolts. If the corrosion has weakened the long bolts, they need replaced anywayz, thus I hammer away. If they break, I warm what's left of the protruding bolts to loosen the lock tight/pop off the corrosion. (they'll most often snap in middle, leaving enough to grab hold of)
Again, I restate, my way is my way, doesn't mean it's the only or best way. KT
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henryb
Active Member
Yes, it's those 4 nozzle to stator bolts that I was referring to for sure. I didn't even put a wrench on the pivot bolts yet. Unfortunately, I've been working on preparing the boathouse with new heavy duty hoists to be able to lift the boat at Thanksgiving. In a Canada, Thanksgiving is the big cottage close down weekend mid-October. So I may not even get a chance to work on removing the nozzle until then? So much to do, so little time!
But for sure I will be soaking it with penetrating oil every chance I get. Hopefully with enough time it will unlock the corrosion?
But for sure I will be soaking it with penetrating oil every chance I get. Hopefully with enough time it will unlock the corrosion?
If changing the nozzle, I first remove the reverse bucket. IMO, the bucket pivots bolts are the most difficult to break loose. Once the bucket is off, I remove the rudder pivot bolts. Lastly (of course) I remove the nozzle to stator bolts. Seldom do I have trouble with these bolts.
I find easier to remove the bucket & nozzle if the nozzle is attached to the pump.
I find easier to remove the bucket & nozzle if the nozzle is attached to the pump.
henryb
Active Member
This is all good info, if in fact I actually get another chance to work on this before the season end. I have been working on getting a new hoist system set up in the boathouse, so I can lift the boat for winter storage! Amazing how much work is involved in customing a lift system that is strong enough and will lift it high enough to get blocks underneath! I will keep you posted on both jobs!
Ken Inman
New Member
I'm sorry I never did get around to updating sooner but Sunday I tested again at Lake Monroe. I had set the starboard tab with slightly more pressure again but to no avail at lower speeds. I then filled 3 bags with sand and put them on the port side storage under the cooler. Then it pulled slightly to starboard.
I am completely convinced that steering is dependent on the balance of the boat. I have now moved the two smaller bags to the very front storage so they can be shifted more quickly. I have ordered a stick-on-level like RVs use so I can quickly balance up the boat.
The Smart tabs were still a good investment as they worked well for attaining a much lower planing speed and ending the porpoising.
I am completely convinced that steering is dependent on the balance of the boat. I have now moved the two smaller bags to the very front storage so they can be shifted more quickly. I have ordered a stick-on-level like RVs use so I can quickly balance up the boat.
The Smart tabs were still a good investment as they worked well for attaining a much lower planing speed and ending the porpoising.
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buckeye_paul
New Member
My boat also pulled to the left. I tried the Place Sport Jet Trim system because I was trying to get rid of porpoising. It made the steering problem worse. I sent it back and got Lenco trim tabs. I can adjust them to compensate for the torque steer, uneven weight distribution, and porpoising. Best money I've spent on this boat by far.
AirSniper
Active Member
So.....does lowering one side make it pull to that side or the other???!!!
buckeye_paul
New Member
Port tab lowered, boat veers right. Starboard tab lowered, boat veers left. To a certain extent I can steer the boat using the tabs (on plane, at speed).
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