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Help!!!!!!!!! 2000 seadoo challenger
- Thread starter WITZ352
- Start date
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WITZ352
New Member
oooooooooooooooooooook. PLEASE HELP! LOL so after towing skiers for an hour, we cut boat off for 40 min of rest and then it started acting up again. turns over but no start. spark seems good. let it sit for over an hour. still nothing. got towed back to dock, loaded up boat, and took home. after 40min, i got home and tried turning boat over, and it fired right up. when it didnt start on lake, i tried eliminating rev limiter and it was no help. so whats the next step??? this thing is driving me nuts!
WAJetboating
Member
When you say you tried eliminating the rev limiter - did you completely disconnect the black-with-yellow wire that runs to the CDI's, as I described in my earlier post? Or did you just disconnect the rev limiter by itself, leaving everything else connected?
Since it sounds like you have fuel (wet plugs) and we know you have compression, I think it's either the CDI grounding circuit or the head temp sensor. If it's the latter, it could be richening the mixture so much that the engine cannot start. As noted earlier, that might explain the fuel smell too.
It might also be the startup signal that runs from the starter to the ECU. If for some reason that stayed at 12VDC it too would enrich the fuel, causing the same situation for a different reason.
But first, let's be sure it's not the CDI circuit. Please describe exactly how you "eliminated" the rev limiter.
Since it sounds like you have fuel (wet plugs) and we know you have compression, I think it's either the CDI grounding circuit or the head temp sensor. If it's the latter, it could be richening the mixture so much that the engine cannot start. As noted earlier, that might explain the fuel smell too.
It might also be the startup signal that runs from the starter to the ECU. If for some reason that stayed at 12VDC it too would enrich the fuel, causing the same situation for a different reason.
But first, let's be sure it's not the CDI circuit. Please describe exactly how you "eliminated" the rev limiter.
WAJetboating
Member
Just to be clear: You disconnected the network of connections on the top of the engine, right? There's a black-with-yellow wire that runs down the aft side of the engine toward the plugs. That wire must be disconnected from everything.
Presuming you did that, the CDI's were not being externally grounded and you should have had spark in all cylinders. It would be nice to confirm that, perhaps by carrying a spark tester in the boat with you.
I'd also like to clear something up. At one point in this thread you said this problem only occurs when the engine is warm. At another point you said it can happen at any time. Which is accurate?
WITZ352
New Member
yes. top engine. two black andyellow connections. used spark tester on all six plugs and it had spark. deff had fuel. i did some more research on head temp sensor. it makes sense. boat does seem flooded when it doesnt start. then after it sits for a long time it fires up. almost like its when the plugs dry out? and it never acts up until it gets hot.
WAJetboating
Member
OK, so it only does this when hot. Given everything else, I think it's the head temp sensor.
There are actually two of them, one on each head near the top of the engine. First, as suggested earlier, disconnect each and examine their connectors. Make sure the terminals are clean. Then reconnect using a dab of dielectric grease and see if the problem recurs. Hopefully your contacts are just dirty/corroded and you can fix this for free.
If it recurs, then I think it's safe to spend the ~$30 for a new temp sensor. But first, remove the existing one and test it. The service manual has complete instructions. I just hate throwing money at parts without knowing they're bad.
Report back!
There are actually two of them, one on each head near the top of the engine. First, as suggested earlier, disconnect each and examine their connectors. Make sure the terminals are clean. Then reconnect using a dab of dielectric grease and see if the problem recurs. Hopefully your contacts are just dirty/corroded and you can fix this for free.
If it recurs, then I think it's safe to spend the ~$30 for a new temp sensor. But first, remove the existing one and test it. The service manual has complete instructions. I just hate throwing money at parts without knowing they're bad.
Report back!
WITZ352
New Member
man you are a life saver. yea, i wasnt sure about the sensor at first, mostly because i didnt fully know its function. when it acts up, it does appear to be flooding. the sensor in question that has to do with fuel, is the one with four leads? dealer says there are two sensor (as you said) one has a single lead (im assuming is the actual temperature sensor) which goes directly to the other sensor, and then four leads come off. but, one sensor is over $50, and the other is over $60....................this problem really sucks, im not loaded with money, and hate wasting money, but if i can get a sensor for $30 and have a chance of fixing it, then i would be willing to gamble that. dude, i am so so so sick of being towed back to the dock.
WAJetboating
Member
I'm looking at the service manual illustration as I type this (we're not allowed to post them, sorry).
The two sensors in question are on the heads toward the rear (aft) of the engine. On each side, find the spark plugs. Between the top and middle plugs there is a sensor screwed to the head.
The one most commonly associated with this problem is on the port (opposite the driver, aka "passenger") side of the engine. It is Mercury part number 13536A14 and current price is $33.06 from at least one online vendor. Here is a link to a photo (I tried to inline it but it wouldn't work):
http://www.mercruiserparts.com/showSpecialPicture.asp?pn=13536A14
(FYI: The sensor on the other side is called, by the service manual, the "coolant sensor" and costs $52.29.)
In the service manual for your engine, page 3C-4, there is a table relating temperature to the DC resistance between the tan/black wires on that sensor. As a rough test, around 77F you should read about 1K ohms. At ~140F you should see ~248 ohms.
Remember, the intermittent nature of this test suggests it may be difficult to absolutely prove that this sensor is the problem. However, if I were you, I'd remove the sensor and put some lukewarm water on the cooktop. Hold the sensor in contact with the water (but without the leads getting wet) and measure the resistance. Then add heat, slowly. If you have a meat thermometer you could monitor the water temp as it rises, and watch what happens to the resistance. They should be inversely related (as one goes up, the other goes down) and the resistance should change smoothly.
But consider this: You're pretty frustrated with the problem. It's stealing time from being on the water. It might be worth ~$40 with shipping to "probably" fix it. That's a lot less than just getting an opinion from a stealership. At some point your time is worth more than the money you're "saving".
Intermittent problems are the worst kind. I would test as much as possible, but realize that at some point you may have to bite the bullet and spend a few bucks on the most likely solution.
If you do buy a new sensor, make certain the contact between the head and the sensor is spotlessly clean. Contamination there can increase the thermal resistance between the two, making the sensor believe your engine is cooler than it really is.
Report back!
WAJetboating
Member
Call a few Mercury dealerships in your area - one might have the sensor in stock. Your engine shares parts with a LOT of Mercury engines.
WAJetboating
Member
Not sure, but the head temp sensor has a reputation for causing this sort of failure. As I recall, the other sensor causes the engine to limit its top RPM's but doesn't play a role in the engine's startup process.
WAJetboating
Member
Excellent!
First, can you fix the one you have? An intermittent wire connection may actually be easy to fix. Can you determine where the break is in the wire? Is it near a connector, in which case you can just cut and resolder the connector to that wire? Is it near the sensor itself, in which case you may be able to solder directly to the wire and strain relieve it to the sensor body?
If none of this is possible, I believe this site has a recommended vendor for Mercury parts. Check there first. If not, then here are some options:
1) Most local Mercury shops do an order per week. See what their turnaround time is. Does "backorder" mean "we don't have it in the shop out back" or "the factory doesn't have any either"?
2) This site:
http://www.mercruiserparts.com/Show_Pictures3.asp?dnbr=881303&ivar=images/SPORTJET/881303/B13.png&inbr=5387&bnbr=130&bdesc=REED+BLOCK+AND+CYLINDER+HEAD
...lists the part as number 7 on the drawing for $33.06. I've been happy with their service in the past. Even if Mercury is on backorder, these folks may have in-house stock. (Disclaimer: I have no association with them other than as a satisfied repeat customer.)
Congrats on debugging it, and report back on what you decide about the sensor!
WITZ352
New Member
i don't think it is repairable. it seems to be broken internally where wires connect to sensor. i can't even see where they are broken. i guess i just need to order a new one. the shops in my area said that sensor is on national backorder and will take atleast a week to get in.
WAJetboating
Member
OK, but since you already know it's broken, there's no harm in digging into it a bit, right? I'd strip away the insulation on the wire in question and see if you can find the break. You have nothing to lose and ~$40 + water time to gain.
That's if someone doesn't have one in stock, which is why I suggested checking with the site I mentioned. If they have one on the shelf, it could be on its way to you today.
Also, I haven't tried this, but there is a pretty decent aftermarket industry supporting Mercury engines. I've been amazed at what I've found... rev limiters, high pressure fuel injector pumps, etc. You might do a few Google searches using the part number, or subsections of it, to see if there's an aftermarket alternative.
Report back!
WAJetboating
Member
If the sensor's wires were intermittent, the sensor was definitely bad.
What happened? Did you get a new sensor and it didn't fix things? You don't say what happened, just that you're angry. Please elaborate.
What happened? Did you get a new sensor and it didn't fix things? You don't say what happened, just that you're angry. Please elaborate.
WAJetboating
Member
You say you have fuel and spark. If you have spark, there's no reason to try new CDI modiules. There's also no reason to continue worrying about the CDI grounding circuit, since if you have spark that circuit isn't getting grounded.
As we all know, if you have spark and fuel and compression, SOMETHING should happen. So if you're certain you have spark, how certain are you that you have (enough) fuel? If you dry the plugs and try again, do they get wet again?
Have you tried squirting some fuel into the plug holes and starting again? Does the engine try to start when you do that?
Have you done a compression test? I doubt that's the problem, but while we're checking things it's something to know. Are ALL six cylinders showing good compression?
There's an answer in here somewhere. We'll find it.
challenger01
Member
Challenger 2000 not starting
I don't want to steal your post, but I just had a bad day with the challenger 2000 (Mercury 240 EFI).
I have had it out 5 times since I bought it with no issues. A lot of tubing and turning the boat on and off without issue.
Today it fired up on the trailer in the water with no issue and I backed away from the launch. I did not run it out hard but I did move it a little and then as I approached the dock it stalled. I could not get it to start from this point on.
It beeped, I waited 5 seconds and then turned the key. It seems like it was going to run but it just died within 4-5 seconds. It did this repeatedly.
I pulled the boat, checked in-line filter and blew that out (some debris but nothing major) and put it back in the water on the trailer. Same issue as before.
I removed the lanyard and replaced, checked the fuses near the main shut off, looked for obvious issues.
I could get it to start for a few seconds but by the time I switched from N to R it was stalled out.
Also, dont know if this is normal or relevant, but the speedometer would jump during this short on period, but no movement on the tach.
The boat is 1 hr away from my house and the storage marina will look at it this week, but I would like to know if there are any other steps I could take.
Thanks
I don't want to steal your post, but I just had a bad day with the challenger 2000 (Mercury 240 EFI).
I have had it out 5 times since I bought it with no issues. A lot of tubing and turning the boat on and off without issue.
Today it fired up on the trailer in the water with no issue and I backed away from the launch. I did not run it out hard but I did move it a little and then as I approached the dock it stalled. I could not get it to start from this point on.
It beeped, I waited 5 seconds and then turned the key. It seems like it was going to run but it just died within 4-5 seconds. It did this repeatedly.
I pulled the boat, checked in-line filter and blew that out (some debris but nothing major) and put it back in the water on the trailer. Same issue as before.
I removed the lanyard and replaced, checked the fuses near the main shut off, looked for obvious issues.
I could get it to start for a few seconds but by the time I switched from N to R it was stalled out.
Also, dont know if this is normal or relevant, but the speedometer would jump during this short on period, but no movement on the tach.
The boat is 1 hr away from my house and the storage marina will look at it this week, but I would like to know if there are any other steps I could take.
Thanks
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