Fun weekend - ends in expensive repairs. Is it going to be like this forever?

[nateccnn]

So I bought two 2007 GTX Wake Supercharged about a month and a half ago. Already put close to a grand into rebuilding the superchargers. New starter solenoids. Oil changed. Took them to Lake Tahoe Saturday morning. They have to be inspected for Mussles before you can launch. One of the skis won't start. No beeps when I put the DESS key on the post, but I did get the dash gauges to come on. In the past iff I wiggled it enough it would eventually give the two beeps, but not this time. So we got one of the two inspected and certified so we launched it and my boat.

18 year old son was driving the ski and ran into my boat, cracking the rear view mirror mount. Than a few minutes later he hits a fairly big wave and rather than the ski going up and over, it went straight through the wave. It ripped the black plastic deflector right off the top of the cowling.

$345 order placed Saturday night for a new deflector and a new steering wire harness with new DESS post, new starter switch and new chime speaker. I know I could have saved money by just replacing the DESs post and female connectors, but I thought this would be a cleaner way to go about this.

Now to my problem I have not solved. When I was trying to get the second ski started at the inspection station I removed all the fuses to check them and found none of them to be bad. I also removed the relay next to the fuse block. I accidentally tried to plug that in backwards and got some sparks. Then after installing it correctly now I can't even get the dash gauges to light up like it did before. Did I fry the MPEM? If so, do I need to have that programed if I have to replace it? Would the CanDoo do that for me?

They are fun to ride but damned things are going to break me financially. LOL

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

Have you checked the rest of the fuses after the relay incident?

 

[nateccnn]

Have you checked the rest of the fuses after the relay incident?

I did. That was my first prayer. No Bueno. Second prayer was the relay blew. I swapped relays with the jet ski that was running and it still runs.

 

[nateccnn]

So did some troubleshooting tonight. I did the test on the DESS post and start button as follows and all checked out OK:

Safety Lanyard Switch Verification;
If 2 short beeps are not heard when installing the safety lanyard, disconnect the switch wires.
No beeps at all
Safety lanyard removed;
connect the test probes to switch Black and Black/Yellow wires. It’s an open circuit, there should be no continuity.no continuity
Connect one test probe to the White/Gray wire and the other test probe to the switch terminal. Measure resistance, it should be “0” ohm.
I got 0 ohms
Connect one test probe to the Black wire and the other test probe to the switch ring. Measure resistance, it must be close to “0” ohm.
Again, I got zero ohms
Safety lanyard on switch; connect the probes to switch Black and Black /Yellow wires. Measure resistance, it must be “0” ohm.
Had to jiggle the lanyard cap but could get zero ohms...it just would not stay zero without jiggling it
Timer Verification;
The timer is integrated into the MPEM. Always confirm that the fuses are in good condition.Checked all fuses with hm meter,
all checked out good
To confirm operation of timer, remove the safety lanyard from switch. After 5 seconds delay, depress start/stop button once. The timer should stay on for 33 seconds (for example, the gauge(s) will be activated) and than turn off.Nothing happens when I do this. However,
I did this same test on the jet ski that runs fine and nothing happens to it either. I place the cap on the DESS post...on the running ski it beeps twice. After a few seconds it beeps three times over an over. I remove the key, time 5 seconds on my watch, hit the start button and get nothing.

I also cannot get either machine to go into diagnostic mode by hitting the start button 5 times. Did something change in the later year machines?
This is a 2007...does it have a different way to get into diagnostic?

 

[ski-d00]

You don't hit the start button 5 times, hit the set button 5 times, which you don't have. I suggest getting the manual for your year ski as there are, as you obviously found out, many differences.

 

[nateccnn]

Yeah...I have the seloc manual and BRP Shop manual. I read that after posting and noticed it requires the BUDS to do self diagnostics. Thinking seriously about buying a CanDo since it's looking like I may have fried the MPEM or the ECM.

I used the search feature when I was in the 4 Tec sub forum and kept getting results talking about the self diagnostics with hitting the start button 5 times. Did realize those results were all 2 stroke forum posts. My bad. I'll pay better attention...ahhh, who am I fooling....lol

So...if I buy the CanDoo it won't help me diagnose unless I can get this thing to power up, right? How can I test the MPEM or ECM to determine what causes it to not power up? Shop manual says the ECM is powered by the MPEM.

 

[nateccnn]

So now I am getting really freaking confused (see how I used the word freaking when I really meant to use another word?). So the manual says that the MPEM is mounted on top of the air inlet box. So I see a device mounted on top of that box and assume that's the MPEM. I google the part number and it turns out to be the voltage regulator/rectifier?

Only results I see in a google search for 2007 MPEM shows the 2007 ECM.

BRP shop manual has step by step procedures on how to replace the MPEM, but no pictures. Also has a previous section with step[ by step on how to replace the ECM. There has to be a MPEM on this ski, right? Am I missing something incredinbly simple here?

 

[nateccnn]

Alrighty then...I'm learning. From what I see on Google. A. There are no 2007 MPEMs, anywhere. No parts dealer has them. B. Shop manual for 2007 Sea Too, part number 219 100 258 shows procedures for replacing the MPEM, and near the last few pages even shows a picture with instruction on how to remove the connectors from the MPEM. C. Discussion by a fella named Dennis from CanDoo says they stopped using MPEM in 2007. From that I deduce that BRP used some old information from prior years in their 2007 sea too shop manual. Argh!

Maybe I need to get a 2008 shop manual. Maybe by then they updated it? But potential exists that things changed again so that may be a dead end too.

I think I know why the guy sold these machines to me now. (paranoid me)

 

[nateccnn]

Back at the troubleshooting. I got ready to start swapping parts from the running machine to the non running machine. Figured I'd start with the regulator (which I originaly thought was the MPEM?) Anyhow...before dong that I thought I'd do some basic electrical troubleshooting so I could rule out obvious power issues...since my problem is no power anywhere, it's hard to do any troubleshooting beyond the power source or relay...which if you're keeping up with this thread you know I accidentally shorted and sparks flew. Makes sense. Pulled the schematic for the machine and labeled the relay point...30,85,86,87,87a. Tested each post on the relay by pulling it out of the connector base a little, exposing the contact terminals. Using a VOhm meter I checked each pin for expected results...power N/O, power N/C...and such. Last terminal I tested was 30 pin, ground. No ground to 30, which makes sense since the relay gets it's ground from a operational DESS post...which I do not have. Jiggled the lanyard cap (since that has worked in the past to make it start) to no avail. Decided to test...what if I make a solid ground to post 30 of the relay? As soon as I ground it directly to the engine the computer came on, fuel pump surged, dash lit up and it beeped twice...then in to series of three beeps. Hmmmm...Removed the direct ground and everything stayed on. Took the lanyard cap off and everything shut down. Put the lanyard cap back on and got the two beeps.

Now I'm back to my original post on this site where I wanted to diagnose the DESS post and when I took it apart it just started working. Hard to diagnose when it's working.

So my next investigation will be a faulty ground that is somehow making contact after current flowed through...maybe it arced and welded itself? Who knows.

But would a faulty ground cause the original issue where the dash would light but I never get beeps? Maybe?

Weird stuff

 

[nateccnn]

After posting this I discovered that once the timer shuts down the thing will not fire up again by putting the lanyard cap on the DESS post. You have to apply that direct ground wire to post 30, once the fuel pump cycles you can remove the ground wire and everything works flawlessly until you allow the timer to time out.

Swapped the regulator and it did not help. Ruled that out.

 

[nateccnn]

To rule things out I swapped parts from running machine and non running machine. Parts swapped include TOPS switch, regulator/recitifier, main really and ECM. Running machine still runs normally and dead machine remains dead unless I ground pin 30 of the relay. I can't think of anything alse to test other than the DESS Post and I have a new one supposed to be delivered Monday so I don't really feel like disassembling to one on the running machine. I think I'm done for this weekend unless someone else can recommend another part to swap over.

 

[nateccnn]

I know how to make it run though if the new DESS Post doesn't fix it. Run a push button switch from ground to pin 30 that I can tap before starting. Seems to stay running unless you shut it down and let the timer time out.

 

[ski-d00]

When you grounded the pin 30 and took the lanyard on and off and it shut down and then came back to life is telling you that your DESS post is working fine and probably always was since the gauges came on at your original no start condition. I assume it didn't start when you pressed the start button after the make shift ground? Did you listen for a slight click at the solenoid?

Here's my diagnosis...I think your original problem was a bad starter solenoid. These fail constantly especially around the 2007 years with the brown plastic riveted to a metal plate. You can buy a $10 replacement on ebay that works well, make sure to get the all plastic housing as these are proving to be more reliable than the metal plate riveted.
Now you have shorted something out and lost your ground after trying to install the relay backwards. Find where the ground is open. It may be a burnt wire inside the sheathing or something like that.

 

[nateccnn]

Already replaced the solenoid. And after connecting the temporary ground I hit the start button and the ski fired up and ran normally.

Just for S & Gs I downloaded the 2008 BRP shop manual. As suspected earlier, the 2008 manual has been updated to show that MPEM is no longer used, although it still refers to it's functionality. But the wire and schematics are similar to what I find in my ski. Much easier to diagnose and trace with this new info.

So something I have not mentioned but seems important now that I've read the new and old shop manuals. When I purchased the machines one of them had a dead battery so the seller jump started it with his truck. No bueno.

The new 08 shop manual mentions a diode next to the main relay that protects the ECM from reverse polarity. It also mentions that the ECM controls the pwer to everything by switching the ground when the lanyard is attached.

Pieces are coming together in my head now. Unfortunately I am at my mother in law's house about 5 hours away from my skis. I can only theorize right now. But I am betting that diode is crispy. Probably started to go bad when the seller jump started it, causing intermittent problems with the DESS. I finished it when I put the relay in backwards.

 

[nateccnn]

Also...the DESS Post is suspect simply because testing it with a vOhm meter showed I had to jiggle the lanyard cap to get the circuit to close. I'm going to replace that post regardless to be sure to rule that out.

 

[nateccnn]

Probably the diode. If the diode is burnt the DESS key can't provide ground? I'm having a hard time reading this schematics..

NOPE: Not the diode. It looks like BRP added the diode in 2008 to protect against reverse polarity. Maybe I'll add one when I figure this thing out. Next on the list is to test the connector/wires from the TOPS to ground and to ECM. Also...I did get the new DESS post so should be able to verify that tonight too.

 

[nateccnn]

Verdict is in, folks. Who voted for the DESS Post being the culprit.? I figured the easiest part to test was the new DESS Post. Plugged the new one into the 6 pin and 2 pin connects. Two beeps. Push start and she fires right up.

Got myself all worked up over nuthin with the other electronics but I had to do something while waiting for my parts I ordered the evening that we killed it at the inspection station.

Having a cold one now before I go tear into the harness connection so I can swap the old harness with the new. Wish I did not have to disassemble the connectors to do that. Ohwell...it's gotta get done.