Fixing up an old 1989 XP in Southern Oregon

[schweizer]

Hello all,

Just found this forum through a google search looking for info on my old 1989 SP. It's been sitting outside in the weather on it's trailer for quite a while, because I had too many other projects. Hasn't been on the water since around 2006, and even then it was running rough and probably needed carburator rebuild then.

I just bought a carb rebuild kit on e-bay but don't have a clue how to do it. Hopefully my F-I-L will have a little time to help with the carb rebuild, or maybe I'll take it down to the boat shop. (?)

The motor or driveshaft was partially seized when I started looking at it early in the week, but I was able to get it turning manually by turning the flywheel by hand. Now it spins freely and smoothly.

I hosed out the engine compartment thoroughly because there was a lot of sticky gooey stuff in the bilge. The seat is down at the upholster's getting new vinyl. The padded handlebar cover fell apart in the sun over the past few years, so the redneck in me just zip-tied some foam pipe insulation around the metal bars to prevent head injury. If anyone can direct me to where to buy a handlebar cover I would be grateful.

With a new battery installed yesterday, the starter solenoid clicks, but no cranking. I jumpered across the positive posts on the solenoid. Big spark but the starter still won't crank -- have to assume the starter is seized? Found a starter on e-bay for ~$50 and ordered it.

Anyway, that's where I'm at....

Thanks for any input.

Marcus

 

[Dr Honda]

Did you try to turn the engine over by hand? I haven't seen too many starters lock up. But... it's common for the pump bearings to rust, and lock.

Post up some pics when you get a chance.


If you still have the foam block... Keith at seadooupholstery.com has made the handle bar covers. He did one for me, and it fit perfect.

 

[schweizer]

Thanks Dr. Honda. Yes, it turns over by hand freely, and having the bearings rust sounds reasonable. It seems smooth now with the sparkplugs removed and when the plugs were re-installed there was compression. I don't have a way to check how much compression, though.

The foam block is totally disintegrated.

There are guys selling neoprene covers on e-bay and I was thinking of buying one and stuffing it with foam (spray foam?). Thanks for the link.

 

[mike_dmt]

Just hit up Minnetonka4me. He might have your cover, or can direct you to someone who does. He's got a great rep for quality pieces.

I'd pop the starter out for fun and see if you can fix it. Rebuilt OEMs are better than the $50 eBay kids. Don't get me wrong, I've gone that way too and had decent success.

Hopefully you jumped the small terminals. Jumping the big ones is bad. Did you check for 12v at the starter when you tried to turn it over? A big spark might indicate a short.


A pump rebuild is simple too. Just grab a kit and go for it. Might want to get the tools from Dr. Honda tho. The bearings have to be in just right.

But for a little time and $$, you'll have a fun little 'Doo again.

 

[schweizer]

Having some trouble posting pics, but here's one:

 

[schweizer]

Umm, yes I did jump across the 2 big terminals on the solenoid. Why is that bad? The 2 small terminals are just to energize the solenoid coil, correct? Yes, I understand about how a big spark could indicate a short, which indicate a short in the starter if you bypass the solenoid. (??)

How do you check for 12 V at the starter? I can't even get to it without taking out the tuned pipe, etc.

Marcus

 

[- BiRkS_]

You can get to it. A 12 inch extension and a 12 or 13 mm socket will get up in there. I did it about 5 years ago. Just two bolts and the positive lead. It can be a little tight. A little mirror and some good lighting will help you alot. And there is no harm jumping the solenoid. That just takes it out of the loop and you are verifying if it actually works. To check voltage, hook your neg lead of multi meter to neg battery post, and pos lead on the larger terminal. When the start button is pressed,~12V should be at both big terminals.

But it does indeed sound like you have a shorted starter, or short to ground in the wire going to it.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Nice project, good wrenching!

 

[Crofoot50]

Welcome to the forum. They are cool old skis I have 3 of them. Very light skis and fum to ride . Minn has all the parts u need if he does not his bro usually does . Keep up the good work

 

[Dr Honda]

Yep to everythign above...

Tonka will take care of you.

If he has the foam... get it from him, and buy a new cover from Keith. I think he was only charging $30 or so for it.

I did a full restoration on a 90 a few years back. They are fun to ride. (just not the fastest thing out there)

 

[schweizer]

Thanks all.

I sent a PM to Tonka.

Got the exhaust manifold and tuned pipe out of the way this morning. The starter wires are intact -- impossible to have short in the wiring outside the starter. Maybe I'll have some time after work to get the starter out and test it.

Dr. Honda, that sure is a nice ski.

Marcus

 

[Dr Honda]

Dr. Honda, that sure is a nice ski.

Marcus

Thanks...

It was a $175 beater. I worked my magic on it... and played with it for a couple years.

 

[schweizer]

Just a quick update:

The starter was indeed seized. When it came out of the ski, I clamped it in a vise and tried to turn the rotor, but couldn't by hand. When I tried with a wrench, it turned but made grinding noises. Upon dismantling, there was all kinds of crud inside it, including water, rust, rock-like grit. The bilge plug has been out of the ski for several years so I don't know how so much water could have built up in there. Luckily a new starter should be here soon.

 

[mike_dmt]

Not uncommon for an old ski. You could still try and restore it and have one on the shelf for next time.

 

[schweizer]

Well, today the ski fired up for the first time in years!

I replaced all the fuel lines, including within the fuel tank (which had totally fallen apart), rebuilt the carb, checked the oil pump, replaced the starter, checked the electrical connections, new battery, new spark plugs, checked the jet pump, etc. etc. There was a leak around the bottom of the oil pump housing seal and that's how there was so much goop in the bilge, I presume. Had to lift out the engine with the tractor to find it, and in the process hit my head on the tractor loader causing a good-sized scalp laceration. Freaked out my wife, but all's OK.

Still have problems that I can't figure out though: while it starts easy enough and seems to be getting spark to both plugs at least some of the time, it dies constantly, like someone is pushing the kill switch. I can't run it long enough to even get the engine warm (with cooling water via hose of course) to adjust idle. The low speed mixture screw is out about 1.25 to 1.5 turns. It will run, with smoke (most of the time) so I'm guessing the oil injector pump is working. When the starter is cranking but the engine is not firing, you would think squirting a little starter fluid would work, but no. Makes me think I have a intermittent electrical problem -- coil? Could someone point me in the right direction to find out which electrical component is giving fits? Thank you for all the help.

Marcus

Edit: P.S. When I pulled out the jet pump I noticed the rubber boot around the drive shaft is cracked where the splines enter the impeller housing. I packed it with grease around the splines. Is it absolutely necessary to get a new rubber boot?

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Well, today the ski fired up for the first time in years!

I replaced all the fuel lines, including within the fuel tank (which had totally fallen apart), rebuilt the carb, checked the oil pump, replaced the starter, checked the electrical connections, new battery, new spark plugs, checked the jet pump, etc. etc. There was a leak around the bottom of the oil pump housing seal and that's how there was so much goop in the bilge, I presume. Had to lift out the engine with the tractor to find it, and in the process hit my head on the tractor loader causing a good-sized scalp laceration. Freaked out my wife, but all's OK.

Still have problems that I can't figure out though: while it starts easy enough and seems to be getting spark to both plugs at least some of the time, it dies constantly, like someone is pushing the kill switch. I can't run it long enough to even get the engine warm (with cooling water via hose of course) to adjust idle. The low speed mixture screw is out about 1.25 to 1.5 turns. It will run, with smoke (most of the time) so I'm guessing the oil injector pump is working. When the starter is cranking but the engine is not firing, you would think squirting a little starter fluid would work, but no. Makes me think I have a intermittent electrical problem -- coil? Could someone point me in the right direction to find out which electrical component is giving fits? Thank you for all the help.

Marcus

Edit: P.S. When I pulled out the jet pump I noticed the rubber boot around the drive shaft is cracked where the splines enter the impeller housing. I packed it with grease around the splines. Is it absolutely necessary to get a new rubber boot?

Coming along nicely!

 

[RodInEscondido]

Well, today the ski fired up for the first time in years!

I replaced all the fuel lines, including within the fuel tank (which had totally fallen apart), rebuilt the carb, checked the oil pump, replaced the starter, checked the electrical connections, new battery, new spark plugs, checked the jet pump, etc. etc. There was a leak around the bottom of the oil pump housing seal and that's how there was so much goop in the bilge, I presume. Had to lift out the engine with the tractor to find it, and in the process hit my head on the tractor loader causing a good-sized scalp laceration. Freaked out my wife, but all's OK.

Still have problems that I can't figure out though: while it starts easy enough and seems to be getting spark to both plugs at least some of the time, it dies constantly, like someone is pushing the kill switch. I can't run it long enough to even get the engine warm (with cooling water via hose of course) to adjust idle. The low speed mixture screw is out about 1.25 to 1.5 turns. It will run, with smoke (most of the time) so I'm guessing the oil injector pump is working. When the starter is cranking but the engine is not firing, you would think squirting a little starter fluid would work, but no. Makes me think I have a intermittent electrical problem -- coil? Could someone point me in the right direction to find out which electrical component is giving fits? Thank you for all the help.

Marcus

Edit: P.S. When I pulled out the jet pump I noticed the rubber boot around the drive shaft is cracked where the splines enter the impeller housing. I packed it with grease around the splines. Is it absolutely necessary to get a new rubber boot?

Little bit of blood shows you are really getting into the project

check your wiring thru the stop, tether route; there is a sneaky ground connection that originates inside the mag housing that kept me going on my first 89 SP for a while because the lug looked good but the wire connection inside the lug was bad ... figure that. I think I put a little further detail/pictures in a thread I originated (I think the subject was something like 5802 in Escondido).

Looks like you are progressing nicely tho.

Rod

 

[schweizer]

Thanks Rod. Definitely something I'll check now. I finally got that flywheel cover tightly screwed on and siliconed, and now I have to take it off? The screw holes were stripped, the repair compound stuff wasn't working, and I just shoved a thin wire in the holes to get some grip (like shoving a toothpick in stripped wood holes). Oh well. I'll check the connections in the electrical box, too.

My wife just read this over my shoulder and said: "that's funny, my best friend Shannon's father-in-law lives in Escondido, his name is Rod, and he's a mechanic."

Marcus

 

[RodInEscondido]

Thanks Rod. Definitely something I'll check now. I finally got that flywheel cover tightly screwed on and siliconed, and now I have to take it off? The screw holes were stripped, the repair compound stuff wasn't working, and I just shoved a thin wire in the holes to get some grip (like shoving a toothpick in stripped wood holes). Oh well. I'll check the connections in the electrical box, too.

My wife just read this over my shoulder and said: "that's funny, my best friend Shannon's father-in-law lives in Escondido, his name is Rod, and he's a mechanic."

Marcus

Look at the wiring diagram; you can probably ohm from one of the connections to the stop and tether switches to ground ... will work for quick check of operation of stop and tether switches, but you will not be able to wiggle the connection inside the mag housing to see if that is the problem.

Nope, wrong Rod. I am just a pretend mechanic and before getting laid off a few weeks ago was an electronics/computer geek. Now doing fun stuff: attending to my small fleet of old SeaDoos.

Rod

 

[schweizer]

Rod, sorry to hear about your job situation. Best wishes in finding more work.

I think I've tracked down the electrical gremlin but I'd appreciate anyone's input. From reading the shop manual, I measured the resistances in the stator and coil.

Magneto/stator:
Black/white with black/red: measured 3.5-4 ohms (normal 2.8 - 4.2 ohms)
Black with black/red: measured 143 ohms (normal 120 - 180 ohms)
Black with engine ground: measures 0 ohms (normal = open circuit/infinity???)
Black/white or black/red with ground:
measures 140-145 ohms (normal = ???)

Ignition coil:
Black with white/blue: measures 0.4 - 0.5 ohms but resistence is quite variable here (broken wire? bad coil?)
(normal should be 0.23 - 0.43 ohms)
Across the spark plug wires: measures 14.8 kOhm (normal 2.45 - 4.55 kOhm)

This would imply that I need a new coil AND stator! ??? Uggh. The guys selling these on ebay are quite proud of them. $75 for a used stator and $200+ for new?

Thanks for any help.
Marcus

Edit: well, I put in spaces and tabs in the above post to make the table of measurements easier to read, but it appears the forum software stripped it all out.

 

[RodInEscondido]

Rod, sorry to hear about your job situation. Best wishes in finding more work.

This would imply that I need a new coil AND stator! ??? Uggh. The guys selling these on ebay are quite proud of them. $75 for a used stator and $200+ for new?

Thanks for any help.
Marcus

Thanx for concern re my job situation, but I will be just fine.

Put together the 2 pieces of hints above: "minne" and "tonka" will get you close to minnetonka4me (I think I got that right) on this forum; he will do you right for parts if he has them.

Rod