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excessive smoke

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2001 seadoo challenger 1800
#51
Ok so the fuel sender, I just need the part with the f1 fuse.. I just didn't know what to call it.. Maybe it would trigger an alarm if I left it unplugged for long enough...
 


Dr Honda

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#52
I was reading over the manual tonight, and there is a section on the sender interaction with the ECU. Funny... the TPS has the same function as the temp sender.

The engine will run with it disconnected, and when it's "open"... it will cause a 40% increase in fuel flow. (and the extra smoke) But it does not effect WOT fueling.

Basically, the ECU runs just on the MAP sender, and RPM. The temp and TPS senders are just used to modify the fuel and ignition tables.
 
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2001 seadoo challenger 1800
#53
Interesting good work tony! I placed the order on Sunday for the tps an selected over night shipping... But the website failed to tell me they didn't have any in stock and will take 3 days for them to get it... I'm just hoping I have it before the weekend
 
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#54
hey tony do you think it would be possible to "trick" the ecu and just put a resister of some sort in place of the tps? or would it run too lean up top?
 

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#55
I'm not 100% sure... but if you ran a resistor to lean out the idle (where it should be) then it may run a little lean in the mid RPM's.

But... as the book said... it doesn't effect WOT.

Back in the day... I helped with hacking the Honda computer. (that's were my name came from) And from my limited research... the TPS and port temp sender will cause an asymptotic fuel trim to WOT. SO... a low value, will shift the tables by up to 40%. But if the voltage doesn't rise during mid throttle... you may go lean enough to damage the engine. BUT... knowing that the TPS plays a very small roll in the fueling logic... I'm VERY sure that we can use some other TPS. Even if it's not perfect... it will work.


Once you get your new one... use your meter, and get me a few readings. Basically... it's just a rheostat. There is a main resistor track, and a sweeper. I want to know what the total value is, and if there is any switching for WOT. (some have a switch built into them) SO....

1) I need a reading on MAX resistance (using the sweeper)
2) I need minimum resistance (using the sweeper)
3) I need a reading across the resistor trace.


Then... if you don't mind... I would like to get your old one from you. I will pay the shipping if you would like.


I know this didn't help you... but the research will help others. Especially if we can come up with an inexpensive alliterative.


FYI... here's some tables from a Honda ECU, just for a visual. We added 6 columns to the logic to handle "Boosted" applications. As you can see... the Honda computer also was dependent on the MAP and RPM. The TPS on those engines was just monitored as an accelerator pump application. (Oh... did I mention I'm a physicist who got tired of sitting in a lab??)






 
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2001 seadoo challenger 1800
#56
Wow great info.. Yea I'll test out the ohm range for you.. The new tps should be here thursday or Friday
 
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#58
got to bring it down to the boat launch and test it out... i cant describe the difference, sooo much better, still smoked a tiny tiny bit after a longggg no wake zone but im trilled its running mint
 

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#59
That's great news !!

If you could send me the old TPS to check out... I would appreciate it. PM me, and I can paypal you a few $$$ for the shipping.
 

daverev

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#61
Hey guys. I'm in the same "boat" with my 02 utopia. Smokes to rmrhe point it's embarrassing. Really don't want to spend the 500 bucks on a TPS. Whats the worst that could happen if I replaced the TPS with a low value resistor, maybe a 200 or 300 ohm?
 

go-hokies

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#62
pm'ed... and what a difference in gas consumption, sooo much better
So... Sounds like the root cause of the excessive smoke was the TPS... not the oil bypass... Good to know as my oil bypass still running strong with minimal smoke.
 
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#63
So... Sounds like the root cause of the excessive smoke was the TPS... not the oil bypass... Good to know as my oil bypass still running strong with minimal smoke.
yea the only time it smokes is after a real long no wake zone..
 
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#64
Hey guys. I'm in the same "boat" with my 02 utopia. Smokes to rmrhe point it's embarrassing. Really don't want to spend the 500 bucks on a TPS. Whats the worst that could happen if I replaced the TPS with a low value resistor, maybe a 200 or 300 ohm?
you could run too lean at partial throttle... could do some serious damage...
 

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#65
Hey guys. I'm in the same "boat" with my 02 utopia. Smokes to rmrhe point it's embarrassing. Really don't want to spend the 500 bucks on a TPS. Whats the worst that could happen if I replaced the TPS with a low value resistor, maybe a 200 or 300 ohm?
you could run too lean at partial throttle... could do some serious damage...

Yep... what he said.


Basically, the system will run without it, and it will run rich. (that's safest for a 2-stroke) If you put in some resistance value, to match the idle voltage (0.200 to 0.300 volts) then at partal throttle, it will be lean.

With that said... it is more common for the port side temp sender to fail, over the TPS. They are wired together, and will cause the same issue. I just changed mine, and paid $30 shipped for it.

I'm not saying your TPS is OK... but it's the less likely of the 2 parts to fail.


Finally... I'm going to start working on a cheaper alliterative. SO... live with the smoke a little longer, and I'll see if I can help you. (if it's actually your TPS that's gone bad)
 

daverev

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#66
So just a quick update. My TPS was sitting at 3 volts at idle. I adjusted It as far clockwise as it would go and I got it down to . 8 volts. That's as low as I could get it to go with the throttle in closed position. Took if out and it ran amazing. Barely any smoke and way more responsive throttle. Hopefully if stays that way. I have a feeling the TPS could be failing. I had already adjusted the TPS once without metering it , just turning it in small increments and it had made if better for a while but then it slOwly reverted back to smoking.
 

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#67
When you checked your TPS voltage.... did you disconnect the port side temp sender?? As I was saying above... they are wired together... so if it's hooked up, your voltage won't read properly.

If you didn't... just pull the bullet connectors at the sender, and re-check the TPS.
 
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2001 seadoo challenger 1800
#68
So just a quick update. My TPS was sitting at 3 volts at idle. I adjusted It as far clockwise as it would go and I got it down to . 8 volts. That's as low as I could get it to go with the throttle in closed position. Took if out and it ran amazing. Barely any smoke and way more responsive throttle. Hopefully if stays that way. I have a feeling the TPS could be failing. I had already adjusted the TPS once without metering it , just turning it in small increments and it had made if better for a while but then it slOwly reverted back to smoking.
Also dont forget to check the voltage through out the rpm range to make sure the tps is working properly
 

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#69
Hey 500: What 2 wires did you check the voltage across. (since there are 3 on the TPS)
 

BCThumper

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#71
Hello all, I don't want to hi-jack this thread, but I'm having the same issues as the OP, so I'll share my info for Dr Honda's research.

I've got a 2002 Challenger 2000 M2 240EFI. Smokes A LOT on cold start and idling through the channel. Burns fuel like crazy, but seems to burn faster slow cruising (2500 RPM) than up on step. I first started trying to solve this problem because of the smoke, and hard warm starts, but then learned my idle RPM was low as well. It idled around 800 RPM. I changed plugs and the port temp sensor. The idle actually dropped to around 700 RPM and the smoke problem was worse. Top speed has never been effected (52 MPH @ around 6100 RPM).

After reading this thread, I'll be ohming out both the new and old temp sensor, and the TPS. I'll let you know what I get. Thanks for all the info so far!!
 
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2001 seadoo challenger 1800
#72
Hello all, I don't want to hi-jack this thread, but I'm having the same issues as the OP, so I'll share my info for Dr Honda's research.

I've got a 2002 Challenger 2000 M2 240EFI. Smokes A LOT on cold start and idling through the channel. Burns fuel like crazy, but seems to burn faster slow cruising (2500 RPM) than up on step. I first started trying to solve this problem because of the smoke, and hard warm starts, but then learned my idle RPM was low as well. It idled around 800 RPM. I changed plugs and the port temp sensor. The idle actually dropped to around 700 RPM and the smoke problem was worse. Top speed has never been effected (52 MPH @ around 6100 RPM).

After reading this thread, I'll be ohming out both the new and old temp sensor, and the TPS. I'll let you know what I get. Thanks for all the info so far!!
Do this, unplug the two brown and back wires on the temp sensor on the port side, put jumper wires in between the tps connector with some wire showing so you can do a voltage reading. Power the boat up "boat kill switch on" turn the key to on, read the voltage between the brown/ black stripe wire and blue wire... voltage should be around .2 vdc and 7.46 at wot
 

BCThumper

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1988 Imperial VC230
#74
Sorry for the delay, I couldn't post from my phone. I have another issue now. The temp sensor readings were within range on both the old and new sensors. HOWEVER, the blue/brown wire has been unplugged by the P.O., so no voltage to be read there. I belive (no schematic) that I can see where it should plug in, but there is a wire going to a ground terminal in it's place. This wire does not appear to be OEM. If I understand all this corectly, the P.O. basically bi-passed the Temp sensor and lied to the TPS. If I run my meter between brown/black and the wire I believe brown/blue should hook up to I get 7.46v no matter what position the throttle is in.
 
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