Error P0616

[Sofla]

Having run through the procedures in the manual and with the kind advice from Rick, aka DooGuy..I've made satisfying progress bringing my 2007 challenger 180SE back from a long sit. Unplanned as it was for previous owner, she was rode hard and specifically put away wet.
To that end .... it feels like im damn near to launch for a trial after buying it over 2yrs ago myself.
Yayyy Me!
My thanks to the braintrust here.

Alas, one more hurdle reared up after resolving the problem before it. I could list the daisy chain of events but suffice it to say that I'd fix the solenoid.. next, in no time, the starter failed.... id replace the top hoses... then the exhaust manifold began leaking.. found and fixed the breach... and like clockwork, another problem would manifesting to fill in the vacancy created by problem just put to bed.

B O A T S..
"break out another thousand stupid"

Long story short... what all stands between me and mine enjoying the this boat is down to P0616
Starter Relay short


How to clear it? I assume an error would have occurred while I was fiddling and replacing other electricals but now that it has thrown this error; I cannot get the engine to kick over.. or hear the audible click of a bad starter relay.
I mean I'm getting nothing


Does this mean it is still or is a current error?

Or will it clear once the problem is actually found and fixed?

Does it require BUDS or a mechanics access to reset?

ESSENTIALLY.. what do I do now?
What to do with a check engine and P0616 error on the display?

Have run through the basics or obvious possibilites of the short or failure somewhere..and I've not found any fuses or cable or connection. Even the recent DESS mess has been rectified and you have no.idea how happy I was to hear a beeper and see my dash glow..
Only to be let down in nearly the same breath when noting the start button was doing nothing... ... I've checked connections fuses. Relays or switches.

What now...? How now? P0616 CK ENGINE?

07 CHALLENGER 180SE 215H

THANKS A PILE for any and all advice.

Humbly
Lauderdaler

 

[JPass]

Investing in a BUDS probably wouldn't hurt in your situation. If you plan on keeping the boat, it would be money well spent.

 

[Sofla]

You are right. And if I had that ability I certainly would take that sage advice. However I do not have the 400 to 600 dollars ar least to buy it.
Should I then assume that the answer to the question i asked regarding clearing a check engine light and a error 0616 is... that indeed it requires a BUDS system or a shop to clear it?

That there is no way to DIY it?

Your help would be appreciated.

 

[dsm]

I think you still have an active fault, not just that you need to clear a prior code. Do you have the shop manual and have you gone through the starter solenoid troubleshooting steps in there?

Have you looked at this discussion? For one it shows that once this code appears it does not require clearing for the boat to work again, as these folks had it intermittently over and over, also it shows how a wiring problem can cause this even if you have replaced the solenoid already.

challenger 180 2007 engine code p0616

 

[Ckrawiec]

FWIW....the list of trouble codes from SBT also shows P0616 as "Burnt bilge pump, beeper, diagnostic center 3A fuse".

Could you possibly be looking at the wrong thing? as the "OTHER" P0616 code does say " Starter relay short to ground or open circuit".

Just throwing it out there....why would they use the same code though????? IDK

 

[dsm]

They use the same code because that fuse is a common point of failure. The ECM can't tell the difference between the different causes of the problem, it just knows the end result that the starter relay has an open circuit. The code refers to the end result... the SBT list is showing problems that can cause that.

 

[Ckrawiec]

They use the same code because that fuse is a common point of failure. The ECM can't tell the difference between the different causes of the problem, it just knows the end result that the starter relay has an open circuit. The code refers to the end result... the SBT list is showing problems that can cause that.

Good info....thanks.

 

[Sofla]

Thank you.

To answer your question, I have been beating my brains out testing reading trying and hoping.
I only have a shop manual for my challenger 180 seadoo boat, but therein are details of procedures to test many electrical components. Based on this info I have done the tests as best as possible. Ohms tests, continuity, proper seating of plugs and sensors ect..

The only precursor to this condition was that upon drydocking after use, inadvertantly a length of rope was sucked into the intake grate and wound itself onto the drive shaft. Soo tight was this wrap by the time I realized it was there; that it was preventing the ski from being able to start at all.
I obviously cut out and off the shaft.... at that point the ski started up... without a problem, it was only shortly thereafter that the errors were throw and the rpms became limited.

Btw.. I have also noted what I'm thinking was not noted previously. That being a faint fuel smell when I am on the ski... at its top end of 3000 revs. When I stop and pop the hood and open the eng comparment... no apparent fuel odor can be detected. Nothing like what could be smelled when riding ar 3k with the hood and seat secured back down.

Cant be sure if this is an indicator or .non related

 

[dsm]

I am wondering if the fuel smell is unburned gas in the exhaust and that's why you can only smell it when it's running. Maybe bad plugs or coil, or the fuel mixture is too rich?

 

[Sofla]

That makes sense.. although would there be in what happened a cause of a bad plug or coil?
Further would this or that trigger the error comdition?

Curios though... I cannot find any blown fuse or any open circuit. If you'll pardon the question.. just so I'm sure... what exactly does open or grounded starting circuit physically refer to.?

Lastly.. had it been a plug or coil and as such running on 2 of the 3 cylinders, I guess I would've expected the ski to be running like hell or sounding like hell at idle or at its limited 3k rpms?
No?

Many many many thanks to everyone.
Soo grateful for all these perspectives and the Intel I'm getting from you all.

A great site and incredible asset and tool ... all of you.

I am wondering if the fuel smell is unburned gas in the exhaust and that's why you can only smell it when it's running. Maybe bad plugs or coil, or the fuel mixture is too rich?

 

[dsm]

Why do you say limited 3000 RPM? The P0616 code is not one that should cause limp home mode.

Maybe you are only getting 3000K RPM because your plugs are bad. Or mixture too rich.

I don't think it's related to the P0616, I think you have two separate problems going on.

 

[Sofla]

Thank you for your wider perspective. It had been overfilled with oil at one point.

The original root of the rabbit hole began with what I can only describe as a banging as if I was dragging an anchor and it was randomly flying up and banging on the bottom of the hull.
Pardon the loose analogy but picture an anchor left 10' in the water... and you are at idle
. I picture the thing swinging wildly... randomly violently arbitrarily swinging up hitting the boat from underneath with each wild effect of an edge of the blades on the anchor.

As I said ... PICTURE IT... as it is only my depiction.. no such anchor is being dragged obviouly.

My best troubleshooting suggested drive line problem..
Checked wear ring or impeller obstruction.. nothing
Checked carbin ring and wear ring was fine.
Led me to the bearings maybe at the PTO seal or magneto. Replaced just to be safe.

Still phantom violent knocking ... banging!!... on the hull.
.
Seemingky... not actually.

Which led to seized shift cable.. Replaced
....to the throttle cable. Rrplaced

Checked engine fluids.. after repairing and assembling the driveline. The oil was inadvertently over filled...massive smoke at start...
Refilled both fuel and engine oil was extracted and refilled appropriately. As was the coolant levels and reserve tank.

Now this dead DESS post beeping... was my error in reattaching the purple ring leads on the new solenoid on the wrong side of the solenoid
Result of this was to have absolutely nothing upon DESS key no beep no panel no click no nothing.

Birdogged to realize the error and corrected.

Fully tested the solenoid and the othet.connections as per shop manual including checking the route and plain wire.

All in order.. getting panel, all accessories switches... everything again following the wire and post correction to purplw6wire ring leads inversion on the solenoid.

Sole holdout now is the start itself... I now have nothing at the start button when pressed.. no telltale clicking at solenoid click .. nothing at all. Will have good tone andl pwr connection but nothing when pressing start button. Not so much as a cluck click at start press... and no so much as a gasp.

Naturally following ohms testing per manual and all checking out

Out of desperation I decided to see if it would turnover or start when shorting the posts of the solenoid...
It fired right up.
..well... it turned over fine.. cranked... started.. and sputtered out just as I was going to cut it off just to be safe. No water turned on until after starting.

ALL THIS and the initial banging manifestation problem is standing still and I guess just waiting.

Now the panel shows no issues... the reassembly is done As is raw hardest half stands before me and us all.

This stuff.. all if it .
But still...

Nothing at start button. No click no nothings

Can turnover and has started from the solenoid post shorting together.
Still not from start button.

Worse yet... I'm guessing that the initial
Prooblem of the phantom banging from under the boat seemigky.
. Is not resolved or figured out.

I could not break free the bolts connecting the jet pump to the impeller housing so for the above purposes I had the entire pump assembly out when working on it...


So ... now.

1 can the solenoid be the culprit and give no telltale clicking AND trigger a code p0616 yet at shorting the solenoid... Fires.. turnover and even started.. before I shut it down...

2. To the impetus here... the random yet alarming banging somewhere all I can see is that the nose cone and bearings there have not been evaluated... regarding the banging .. the first call to you guys for help.
.
Is this possible that bearings there could make such strong symtom?

Have had the boat for a while now and still awaiting a successful launch that didnt immediately shift to pulling it right back out.

In sum..

Dead start button

Undiagnosed random banging as if dragging a anchor with about 15' of rope deployed. My best description

Ughgh.


Code p0616
Check engine on dash mfd

About the most generic and useless info and drill down info imaginable.

Can solenoid have failed but give no telltale clicking... and further still be able to start or turnover when posts are shorted ?

How can I test the actual start button?

How about the NSS ? Could that kill the start button yet not interrupt a shorting start at the solenoid?

Lastly... could the nose come bearings manifest such a strong audible symptom as the 'banging' I'm struggling to convey accurately to you?


Many many many thanks.

 

[Sofla]

Why do you say limited 3000 RPM? The P0616 code is not one that should cause limp home mode.

Maybe you are only getting 3000K RPM because your plugs are bad. Or mixture too rich.

I don't think it's related to the P0616, I think you have two separate problems going on.

My mistake.... I just realized I'm mixing up two problems from two different vessels..

To clarify.

2016 GTX 260iS ; no code no indications no hints..
Just the limitation of 3000 revs +/_ and otherwise purring like a kitten. Possibke faint fuel smell underway in this condition is possible


2007 Challenger 180 215SE:
Code P0616
Dead start button
Enduring undiagnosed random banging


My humble apologies for my mixup..
Two separate vessels each with the immediately above summary of issues and indicators