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Engine Problems

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speedster4us

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Engine Problems ****UPDATE Today***

OK, guys, here we go. I received my newly rebuilt MPEM in the mail yesterday, and I quickly installed it. Now lets first start off by saying I purchased this boat (1997 Speedster) NON running but with papers from the Seadoo Dealer w/diagnostics saying that is needed a new MPEM due to blowing the 5amp fuse and also NOT knowing that they can be rebuilt. OK so after install of MPEM, I chocked the port engine gave it a quick bump of the starter to try and get a little gas to the carb, and also did the same to the starboard side. Hooked up the hose to S-side and in 8-10 seconds fired right up(sweet). I gave it a little rev and noticed that there is a rev. limiter @3500 so put it forward and gave it a quick bump forward and hi the rev. limiter at about 7-7200, let it isle for about 2 minutes, turned the water off let it cycle for about 30 seconds and shut it down. Also did the same thing on the P-side. SWEET everything is fine. So this evening I take it out to water test it on the river. Use the blower, push off shore, fire up the P-side, then the S-side both fire up. So I putt forward for 100 yards or so just for the hell of it. (Just trying it out) SO I go and give it gas on the P-side only just to see how each motor is gonna run. The P-side runs NICE but gets up to about 5200 and then cavitates (needs a wear ring I suppose). So then I go on the gas with the S-side and it revs to about 3500 and hits a rev. limiter, loads up and bogs down till it almost cuts out and shakes pretty good. I switch to NEW plugs (same thing). The motor fires right up but does seem a little tight compared to the other if you spin the PTO Flywheel. I also noticed when I took it out of the water one of the rear motor mounts seemed a little loose. Just wondering what you guys may think this may be. I can also only assume that both wear rings need to be replaced and will do them at the same time, but need to figure what is up with the other motor first. Any help would be very appreciated. Thanks

Also didnt explain it very clearly, last night on the hose it reved up to 7-7200 but tonight on the water only 3500 then loads up kinda chokes out/ falls on it face and almost cuts out, till you bring the trottle down to idle, then shakes pretty good.....
 
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You should never just spin the engine up to full throttle on the hose. The jet pump doesn't have any resistance and isn't good for the engine. It sounds like you need to remove the carburetors and clean them. If you're careful and don't tear or damage the diaphragms you won't need to buy a rebuild kit. Pay attention to the internal filters too. As for the engine the mount, it sounds like it might be bad. If you can pull on the engine and it isn't tight it needs replacement. Do you have a seadoo shop manual? If not here’s an idea for you. You could join as a "premium member". As a premium member you can down load a authentic seadoo manual from the seadoo manual library. In the library is a variety of manuals for almost all years and models. You can view as many as you like on line as a PDF file, or download it and print it for your personal and private use. There are operator manuals and repair manuals for you to do your own repairs on your seadoo. The repair manuals have everything from troubleshooting, repair procedures to winterizing. It contains wire diagrams torque specs and pictures for disassemble and assemble instructions. In the spec sheets it tells everything needed to maintain oil changes, spark plug gaps, carburetor rebuilds and impeller wear ring tolerances. Click on the "Seadoo Manuals" link at the top of the page for more details. If you need any help or get in a jam, we are always here to answer your questions too. Premium members get priority when it comes to getting quick detailed answers.


Karl
 
Karl thanks alot, now if I join as a premium member in the diagrams Will it show me exactly how to disassemble the cars and jet pumps to do the wear rings. And also do I need anything special (tools) to do the jet pump/wear ring job. I do have out of a 10 Mechanical skills about an 7-8 and have a little bit more specialty tools then the normal (never know when you may need them). Thanks Casey

Are you also assuming that the problem with the S-side engine is a dirty carb.. (possible)
 
Yes, What you describe sounds like a clogged carb. I also have some tricks to help in doing a lot of different repairs. Here is some info on the wear ring replacement that applies to most of the older seadoo's;
Replacing the wear ring


For starters....

1.) Remove the three hoses on the inside of the boat. (Attached to the pump) if you do not do this first, you will forget and cause all kinds of problems for yourself!!!

2.) Remove the steering rod, 10mm bolt and nut.

3.) Remove 4 13mm bolts holding nozzle on. with this off you will have a much better view of the wear ring.

4.) Remove 4, 17mm bolts from the pump to hull. Make sure you pull off all the lock washers and washers to ease pulling the pump.

5.) This is the tricky part.... Most shops gob all kinds of silicon on when replacing the pump and so it makes it a pain to pull it away from the hull.
You need to pull the pump away from the hull as straight as possible.

They sell a pump removal tool but I just made my own. Cut a length of 2x4 that I set across the rear of the ski and drilled 2 holes in it. I thread long 13 mm bolts with washers through the top two holes of the pump where the nozzle mounts. This pulls it away nicely with a butterfly impact.

6.) Now you have your pump and impeller in your hands, the next step is to remove the 3 8mm bolts on the cone. Make sure you have something to catch the oil and nose plugs.... This stuff reeks to high heaven...

7.) After cleaning out the oil I place the pump impeller side up in a vice. (grabbing the flat end of the pump shaft in a vice)

8.) Place impeller removal tool in the impeller and grab a 1/2" drive 3/4 socket with a huge breaker bar. Twist it counterclockwise till it pops loose. (May take some pressure. I seriously use a 4 foot pipe on the end of my breaker bar and use a popping motion rather than smooth pressure.)

9.) Now that you have the impeller out take your new wear ring and put it in the freezer.

10.) You have to get the old wear ring out of the pump. (I have found the easiest way is to take a saws all and cut a slit in the wear ring the full length of the pump) Be careful only to cut the wear ring and not the pump.

11.) Take a large standard screwdriver and a hammer and tap the screwdriver gently between the wear ring and the pump all the way around to separate them.

12.) Clean all the white corrosion off the pump where you will be putting the new wear ring

13.) After tackling this task go to the freezer and grab that wear ring. (don’t dilly dally with it) get it to the garage and slide it in the pump. you may have to tap lightly with a rubber mallet. If it doesn’t slide in then you didn’t clean the pump good enough. Repeat steps 9 and 12.....

14.) Reinstall the impeller in the reverse order.

Note: it is very important not to pinch the thrust washer when re-installing the impeller shaft. That’s why it’s a good idea to do it in a vice rather than on the ground sideways.

Once the impeller is tight you should have 1/8 - 1/4 inch play in the shaft back and fourth. if you don’t start over and inspect your thrust washer you probably pinched it..

15) Inspect the rubber o ring and if it is good apply silicon and reinstall the cone. Make sure the allen fill plug is on top.

16) Lower the front of the ski and add oil to the cone. When it is full, take a brake and have a drink. There is air in the cone and when you go back you will see that it is low. Top it off and take another brake... do this until the fluid does not lower again. I often start the ski for a few seconds to make sure oil is all the way worked into the bearings and all the air is out.

17) wipe silicon on the set screw and screw it in (be sure not to run it all the way into the cone. just deeper than flush is fine. let it sit 24 hours to cure the silicon and put the nozzle back on.

18) Use Sea Doo 75w90 GL5 Synthetic Polyester Oil

As a premium member you will get quick responses too, from knowledgeable techs here on the form as well.

Karl
 
That looks like the baby... cheap too. You don't need to get seadoo oil for the end cone, you can use any synthetic oil of that wt. I would go to Auto Zone. I only use seadoo oil in my engine...

Karl
 
first, don't write off the wear rings yet. you were trying to get up on plane with one engine at a time? ain't gonna happen. use them both. push them to 3500 or 4000 together and it should climb out slowly but smoothly. firewall them from just above idle and it should cav for about 2 seconds then fly.
 
derek,I assumed it also needed wear rings cause it would get to about 5-5200 and goes from pumping water, to a high rev and stops pumping water and picks back up if you bring it back down to 5-5200 or below.

UPDATE..... I just pulled the plugs on the S-side and the plugs seemed to be a little wet either from gas or oil. NOT SURE (YET)
 
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Here is some info on the wear ring clearances;
Wear Ring clearance for your seadoo 1.0 mm or (.040in) Measure the clearance at the center of the impeller blades, with a 12” long gauge. Measure the clearance from the venturi side of the jet pump.

Give it a check before you think about replacing them.

Karl
 
Here is an update guy's.... First I did a compression check on both engines. On the P-side it was 148for front and 147 for the rear. On to the side with the issues S-side 148 for the font and 148 for the rear, did a test 3 times like advised. Next I removed the rear motor cover, much easier to access the motors. I then removed the carb on the S-side the side with the issues as described above. So I started to take the carb apartand when I got to the internal filter it was a little over 3/4 full of junk, and then I think I may have found another part of my issues. The choke flapper was stuck ON and the shaft was bent so it would not turn off. I did notice that the choke cable on the dash for that side was always stuck in the air and would not return down. Do you guy's think that the little things I found so far would cause the motor to do that. It would idle but when reved. up to around 3500 it would fall on its face and I guess kinda act like the choke was on, then when brought back top idle it would take about 20 seconds before it acted correct again but shake pretty good. Let me know what you guy's think. Thanks
 
Gonna check that out here in a few min. Hopefully it may just be loose, it is the one that is behind the exhaust, so just a 18in. extension will get me right to it...
 
Went ahead and purchased the 2 wear rings and the impeller removal tool, I though it was pretty darn cheap $96.97 and that is with shipping included...
 
hey speed,....one issue that keeps stick'n out, is...if the boat is cavitating, then it should, really rev, considering theres no load, but you mentioned its only get'n around 5-5200rpm...? Internal filters with junk is no good, but also, remove the lever assy's, and check to see if the switch/s aint stick'n...:cheers:
 
timmyboy76 said:
hey speed,....one issue that keeps stick'n out, is...if the boat is cavitating, then it should, really rev, considering theres no load, but you mentioned its only get'n around 5-5200rpm...? Internal filters with junk is no good, but also, remove the lever assy's, and check to see if the switch/s aint stick'n...:cheers:
Click to expand...
post#11 derek,I assumed it also needed wear rings cause it would get to about 5-5200 and goes from pumping water, to a high rev and stops pumping water and picks back up if you bring it back down to 5-5200 or below.

UPDATE..... I just pulled the plugs on the S-side and the plugs seemed to be a little wet either from gas or oil. NOT SURE (YET) :cheers:
 
Problems Fixed

Alright guys first off I appreciate everything you guy's have helped me with so far. Well I went ahead and finished the carb up last night and installed it. Everything was going smooth for 1am in the morning and a few drinks(LOL). Ended up having a problem with the butterfly NOT returning when the throttle was back to idle.So after fighting and removing 2 mor times to inspect I decided to give up for the morning. So I got back on it this morning and again could NOT find any problems with the carb, cables , linkages. Untill I noticed the spring on the oil pump lever was undone and not returning thinking that the extra force of pulling down would help the throttle return, but NO it does not. So I went ahead and fixed the spring. Well to make a long story short one of the bolts to the carb, that holds it down was over torquerd and binding the butterfly(how I do not know why) but it was. Put it back together and took it down to the river and burned 6 Gallons on gas. The boat is running AWESOME and did 54 on my hand held GPS (which happens to NOT float) found that out on a fast 180 spin. Well I come hope to let you guy's know how it was going and to grab the family and tube to head back dow to the river... O also forgot not to sure about needing wear rings, with bot engines running properly it jumps out of the water nicely and tops out quickly, but it can never hurt to have them so they are still on there way. (nice winter project, along with a full custom paint job) Also the RPM's tack oput to about 6600-6700 is that about right....Thanks again
 
Everything is running good and NO cavitation ev with my family of four in it. I did also regap my plugs, I thought I read somewheres on here they needed to be gaped at .050 so when I put the new ones it that is waht I gaped them at. Ran fine, matter afact whenI regaped them to .020 it ran the same. Also is there pics somewheres that shows the difference between a non good burning plug and a good one. They are dry and a light brownish color seems to right good though. I went through about 22 gallons today...Sweet Lil Boat
 
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