Engine Adaptor Gasket leaking!!

[don't sink]

Noticed water coming in where motor meets jet housing inside boat- parts diagram says engine adaptor gasket

Tell me I don't need to pull motor for this one! Have not had this boat in the water for more than 10 minutes this summer! Just a mess.

 

[Dr Honda]

If it's coming in around the rubber gasket.... yes... the engine comes out, and then the pump. Once it's all out, then you can replce the seal.


It's really not to bad to do. Since the engine is basically an outboard powerhead.... it's self contained. So... throttle cable(s), power cable, fuel line, unplug the umbilical cord... and it's ready. (11 nuts hold it to the pump)

When I pulled my Islandia engine... I think it was out in 30 min. Honestly... it took longer to get the tools out, and cleaned up after.

 

[don't sink]

What about weight? How did you remove?

 

[Dr Honda]

What about weight? How did you remove?

About 360 Lbs. So... an engine hoist.

 

[don't sink]

I looked at specs and mine is 210 lbs- thank God! I will attempt this removal with a friend and I am thinking it might not be that bad based on your replies- $27 part and a whole lot of labor! Well, the way I look at it I saved a grand in gas this summer by not having it running!

 

[Dr Honda]

I think 210 is just for the power head. (not dressed) Once you add all the electronics, and exhaust...it's heavier.


But you still want to use a hoist. If you let it tip... you could bend, break the drive coupler in the pump. You need it to lift straight up.

 

[don't sink]

Good point on the weight issue! I am going to start looking at lifts and see if they can make the height and reach to get it out. If not I'll need to rig a chain lift between 2 trees acting as I beams.

The lifting eye- where did you get it? Once I lift it out is it basically replace gasket and lower back on or am I looking at linkage and other internal parts?

And, if you had to do it again would you have a shop do it or yourself?

 

[Dr Honda]

You can get the lifting eye for about $35. The one I have is a combo tool. The "Eye" will un-thread, and then a second bolt goes in, and acts as a flywheel puller.

You can normally rent an engine hoist for a few $$$.... but some auto parts stores will loan them out. I bought mine for about $120... and I use it all the time, for heavy lifting around the shop.


As far as "Letting a shop do it".... I don't trust other people. They charge +$100/hr to work on boats... and they do it half a$$'ed. Also... look at it this way.... if you do it yourself.... it will cost $15, and a weekend. (or a day, depending on how long you want to work at one time) If you let a shop do it... you will be looking at $300 to $500 to cover the 4 hours labor, parts, and whatever else they break.

 

[don't sink]

I put the boat in the water to see how bad the leak is and basically the gasket below the expansion chamber is blowing out- its the fiber one above the rubber seal at the hull.


The gasket is clearly pushing out from the inside/

 

[Dr Honda]

On the Merc's.... the hose can be on, with the engine off... and nothing bad will happen.

If the paper gasket failed.... then either there is a warp in the housing.... the housing is corroded... or something got loose.


Is it the gasket in the adapter plate... or the gasket under the expansion chamber?


There are basically 4 gaskets there.

1) Between the pump and the adapter plate (can't really see it)
2) Between the adapter and the "power head"
3) (there are 2 at this level) Between the exhaust plate and A) the expansion chamber; B) the engine.


At first... I thought you meant the leak was around the rubber hull gasket. Well... at least you don't have to pull the pump.

 

[don't sink]

it is gasket #21 that is leaking. It is squirting water around # 18 and #20 on the diagram so basically towards the stern of the boat- I have found several pieces of the gasket in my bilge so it seems to be breaking apart from the internal water pressure. don't see any signs of warping or corrosion or loose bolts- it looks like the gasket just failed.

 

[don't sink]

don't know how to make pic bigger but here is link:

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/M...pansion Chamber And Adaptor Plates/parts.html

it is not the rubber seal and it is not the expansion gasket- it is the gasket below the expansion tank and above the rubber seal.

 

[Dr Honda]

I don't think there is supposed to be water there. The water passage is the 2 openings on the sides.

I guess at this point... you just have to pull it, and take a closer look.

 

[don't sink]

I can't tell from the picture where the water is and where it is not to go- are you referring to #15 and 23 when you say "sides"? Is the expansion chamber cooled and what is its function? I was thinking there is water circulating around the adaptor plate

 

[Dr Honda]

When I pulled my engine... there wasn't any water in that section. Also... Merc is very good with having an in and out for the water. And, in the adapter, there isn't any opening. (other than the feed and suction ports)

Let me dig up a few pics.

 

[don't sink]

Take a look at the picture- I see a coolant line on the upper left so it looks like the plate is cooled- the gasket in question sits directly below this plate- so above the jet pump cover assembly [#19] and below the adaptor plate.

 

[Dr Honda]

Here's a pic from when I had my engine out. I tried to label things to help visualize.

As far as I know.... the water for the exhaust is contained in the lower power head plate. (i'll see if I have a pic of that) If there is pressure and water in that edge.... then the lower engine plate may be corroded, and have a hole.

 

[Dr Honda]

Take a look at the picture- I see a coolant line on the upper left so it looks like the plate is cooled- the gasket in question sits directly below this plate- so above the jet pump cover assembly [#19] and below the adaptor plate.

View attachment 21191

Yes... that plate has cooling in it.


AND...


The exhust ports from the engine (2 square openings) have a solid passage to the 2 square "Stacks" in where the expantion chamber will mount.


So... if you have water coming out that lower gasket.... it's not good. If the water is coming out the expansion chamber gasket.... that could be expected, and can be changed without pulling the engine.

 

[don't sink]

Great..... lets hope the Doctor has misdiagnosed! LOL! Its at my techs shop- I couldn't find a lift to rent and $200 for a one tine deal was not worth it.

Now I really don't see how water is getting to that gasket! Hopefully today I'll have some answers and get back to you.

 

[Dr Honda]

Great..... lets hope the Doctor has misdiagnosed!.................

Actually.... I think I did. (you may be in luck with the corrosion/damaged)



OK... so... I'm not feeling very good today, and finding motivation at the shop is a hard thing. So.... I pulled up some old pictures, along with the flow diagram.


While my labels above are correct.... I think I looked at the flow chart wrong. Actually... it's poorly drawn in the manual.

If you look at it.... the flow arrows make it look as is the cooling water is coming in though the exhaust ports. It's a reasonable assumption since we run wet exhausts. But now... I think the exhust water doesn't com in, until after the expansion chamber.

BUT... after looking at physical pictures... and looking more closely at the flow diagram.... I think the water is actually going outside the exhaust at that stage. and the part I listed as "Should be dry", is actually the outer water jacket for the exhaust ports in the lower plate.



So... my conclusion is.... YES... there is cooling water there. (so it could leak)



BUT.... there should be very little water pressure in the block. (17 psi at full throttle) So... that gasket shouldn't have failed. I guess there could still be a small amount of corrosion, keeping it from sealing, or the nuts holding the engine were loose.

 

[Dr Honda]

OK... I'm not getting any work done today... but at least I'm getting smarter.



My above comments are correct.



Now, in your very first post.... you ask about "Self draining" and "Can there be damage from bad winterizing".


The answer to that is still no. But, after coming to my new conclusions on the water paths.... for the life of me, I couldn't figure out how the system was "Self draining." So, I ate my lunch... and looked at every picture I could find... and it dawned on me...........


If you look at my labeled picture above... you can see a small hole right above the word "SHOULD". (had to enlarge the picture to really look to see if it was a hole) Well.... after looking at a dissembled pump unit.... the "Expansion drain" and that hole both dump into the top of the pump housing, and drain out the side of it.



So.... when the mechanic has your engine off.... ask him to PLEASE DOUBLE CHECK THE SMALL DRAIN HOLE IN THE PUMP COVER.


If that hole is plugged (from sand or other debris) the engine won't drain, and trapped water can freeze and cause damage.

As a final word... yes the damage could be from winter issues... but it's not from a mechanic not doing a proper winterazation.

 

[don't sink]

I like your 1st post better! At least it gave me hope since you now know water goes through it. You are correct on the diagrams, they don't show how all the chambers work and where they go! Confusing at the least.

i'll ask my tech to check that hole- I hope the plate isn't cracked, I don't think it is since water was coming out where the 2 parts meet so I am still going with the failed gasket theory.

Hope you feel better!

 

[don't sink]

So after another week at the shop I got the call it was fixed- everything looked good, no corrosion [just paint missing] and gasket was replaced.

water tested this morning......still leaks!! Not in the same spots [meaning right side now leaks but original left does not]

So this got me thinking, how and where does the water exit this chamber? Blocked perhaps? My repair shop was not happy to see me dragging the boat back but they need to make it right-

 

[don't sink]

Shop was basically doing nothing to try to fix this- said they did what I paid them to and replacing the Gasket again would not solve issue....yeah, thanks for the support.

Pulled boat out of shop after 2 weeks and going at it myself- I keep looking at that pic of the expansion drain and am wondering if that might be clogged thus causing the blowout.

Anyways, will update as the season passes me by and I spend countless hours still trying to fix this!

 

[Dr Honda]

Wow.... that sux.


The drain hole, on it's own, wouldn't have cause the issue. (the second time) If it was plugged, and held water... and that water froze... then that could have pushed out the gasket.

Regardless... if you paid with a credit card... I would dispute it. Yes... they did the work... but they didn't "Fix the problem".

When they had the engine out (or at least up) they should have checked for damage, or signs of warpage. They obviously didn't.

Honestly... if the leak isn't bad... I would use the boat until the end of the normal boating season. Then... once it gets cold... pull the engine.