clarification on Boat Title process in Florida

[Spimothy Leary]

ok my brother was in negotiation on a deal to buy a beat up old Challenger boat, in the end, the owner settled on a low price but after not being able to locate the title, he basically said "haul it away" so we're hauling it away this weekend.

but it will be stripped of all usable parts and taken to the dump unless he can clear up the title issues.

so two generic questions.

assuming the owner just "lost" the title, isn't it really just as simple as the owner going down to the tax collector and paying like $20 for a new one ? signing the new one over to the buyer and all is done.

assuming the owner doesn't have one, lets say maybe its owned by a 3rd unknown party right now, how can my bro, the buyer track down the owner to possibly get a title on this ?

i thought it was a relatively simple but tedious process, where the county can send a certified letter to the last owner of record or something like that, and go from there, but i thought maybe somebody that has jumped thru the hoops of Florida title and reg's can help fill me in on the step by step process and how to best go about it, since without a title there is really no point in digging too deep into the project since the title issue will have to be resolved before you spend any time trying to pretty it up.

If not then he really just has a hull that he can strip out electronics, cables, core engine, and misc, sell them and dump the hull off in the landfill.

 

[nammer]

i'm pretty sure you're right about the owner "losing" the title, I think replacement can be obtained quite easily

as for the "owner" not having the title, I haven't really dug too deep, but i have called the tax collector about boats without titles, and the lady (may vary from person to person) said they would do absolutely nothing in helping you track down the owner. She said if it has been left abandoned on your land, you might want to file a report with the police, and they may contact the owner. I think everybody's experiences may be different, that was just my own. I did see an ad on CL for a business that can title boats that have been abandoned and don't have titles, they said it takes like 3 months or so to get one and I think was $200, but I can't find that ad anymore, so I'm thinking it prob wasn't very legitimate

 

[nammer]

also perhaps a bill of sale may help? my other experience with bill of sales even notorized doesn't carry much weight, because when i bought a car, even though the registration was in the owner's name and was notorized from the bank that the loan was paid off, the tax collector said he had no right to sell the car, because the title was held by the bank.

 

[nammer]

this is prettty much the opposite of what i said, and the same as what you said, taken from florida highway and safety

http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/faqboat.html#8

When a vessel has been sold and the owner is no longer available to provide proof of ownership, how do I, as the purchaser, get information to contact the titled owner in order to obtain the certificate of title?

Notify your local tax collector or license plate agency in writing stating the problem and provide the vessel's Florida registration number. The local tax collector or license plate agency may provide the name and address of the titled owner with the necessary instructions for transferring the ownership of the vessel into your name. However, some agencies do not provide ownership information for vessels to the public. Instead, as stated in DMV Procedure TL-07, they may provide the titled owner (by writing directly to the owner of record) with the purchaser's released contact information (name and address) and any necessary instructions. The owner then has the option to contact the purchaser to assist them. You may also contact the department to obtain ownership information for the vessel owner by completing a form HSMV 85054, Motor Vehicle/Vessel Records Request. The department's mailing address is shown at the top of this form.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

yes, option A is the easiest, i know I sold a ski last year and about 30 days later the buyer called me and said he had misplaced the paperwork, and it was still in my name, so he offered me lunch to meet me down there and sit for 20 minutes, i provided ID for the lost title, they printed it right there and I signed it over on the spot, took less than an hour all total. IMO if its his boat then $100-$150 should be enough incentive to get somebody to drive down there and wait in line for a bit.

Option B is a whole new ball game, but I know i've seen posts about how guys went about it in the past, just don't seem to be finding them now, so I was hoping there was a step by step process that has a reasonable assurance of success.

edit: we were typing at the same time, ok, that's a good start, we'll go from there !

Thanks Nam !

 

[nammer]

it says on their website that it's possible and sounds very reasonable, so i really think it depends on who you talk to at the tax collector. The downside is it really is completely up to the registered owner. He could have legitimately sold it, but ignore your request completely. I find it very hard to believe the tax collector would give the owner's information to you as they stated was a possibility. The more likely is they will try to contact the owner for you, if they're not being lazy

 

[nammer]

edit: we were typing at the same time, ok, that's a good start, we'll go from there !

Thanks Nam !

yea best of luck!

sounds very possible, and they really should do something about getting titles, there are too many boats and pwc without titles

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Titles for anything under $10k is stupid.

My last TV cost more than the last ski I bought.. it didn't have or need a title.

 

[nammer]

Titles for anything under $10k is stupid.

My last TV cost more than the last ski I bought.. it didn't have or need a title.

then how would we identify ownership? finders keepers?

 

[Spimothy Leary]

lol i agree, titles and reg's imo are necessary evils. a ski and a TV are not the same but yes, TV's work on the finder's keeper's rule

i'm not going to do any more mental masturbation on this until he tells me if the owner is the owner and is just missing the title, or if he has a bigger problem on his hands.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

I'm just saying that when the value of something drops to a point, if it's not claimed missing or stolen, the process of titling it should be simpler.

ie, you have it, call them up, say "hey is VIN: XYZ123" stolen or legit, and who owns it? OK, thanks, I'd like to title it.

not 200 pages of gov't BS and paper work that doesn't apply anyway, and $200 later to find out it's stolen or someone had a lien on it by a bank that longer exists...

but, that's right, the gov't isnt here to serve YOU lol, just stop by your local SS office to see that in effect.

McDonalds, quick in, order, food, pay, quick out.

SS office, 2 hour wait to check in, wait another hour, 20 pages of paper work to make sure your name is spelled correctly on a SS card.

Social Security, not the "SS".

see the difference? one values a customer, the other is our gov't.

 

[Strizzo]

at least in texas, if the guy is the registered owner, and just lost the title, it is simple enough for them to go and order a duplicate or replacement title. what usually happens though, is this:

ski breaks down, owner takes it to a shop, who says X is wrong with it.
owner decides to sell instead of fix, so lists if for way too much money and finds a sucker, saying "it's a $50 fix, just need to put the X back in"
new owner buys it, but doesn't go down to register it yet because he doesn't want to pay the taxes unless he can get it running.
new owner is in way over his head, has no idea what he's doing and the ski never gets fixed, or he takes it to a shop where he spends more than he paid for the ski in the first place to get it running.
then he realizes his wife threw away the title and all related paperwork along with all of his back issues of low rider during a feng shui phase six months ago.

then he decides he doesn't want the ski any more because he can't get it titled so he lists it on CL for, again, way too much money and simply says "no title, not hard at all to get one from fish & game"

then the next sucker restarts the cycle. good luck on your journey.

 

[nammer]

I'm just saying that when the value of something drops to a point, if it's not claimed missing or stolen, the process of titling it should be simpler.

i think the value is less imp, because just using the example of 10K you used earlier, it may be worth 10K, but if we "paid" 9500 for it, then different story, but I COMPLETELY agree about the if it's not missing or stolen in a certain amount of time from the time we start the process (it can't be in however long because sometimes things are at vacation homes and the owner doesn't know), ie a few months, then it should be able to be easily titled.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

at least in texas, if the guy is the registered owner, and just lost the title, it is simple enough for them to go and order a duplicate or replacement title. what usually happens though, is this:

ski breaks down, owner takes it to a shop, who says X is wrong with it.
owner decides to sell instead of fix, so lists if for way too much money and finds a sucker, saying "it's a $50 fix, just need to put the X back in"
new owner buys it, but doesn't go down to register it yet because he doesn't want to pay the taxes unless he can get it running.
new owner is in way over his head, has no idea what he's doing and the ski never gets fixed, or he takes it to a shop where he spends more than he paid for the ski in the first place to get it running.
then he realizes his wife threw away the title and all related paperwork along with all of his back issues of low rider during a feng shui phase six months ago.

then he decides he doesn't want the ski any more because he can't get it titled so he lists it on CL for, again, way too much money and simply says "no title, not hard at all to get one from fish & game"

then the next sucker restarts the cycle. good luck on your journey.

Yep! lol....

 

[nammer]

hey spim, just curious if you had any updates about titling process

 

[RodInEscondido]

This applies to my experiences in California, but somewhere in the following drivel there might be some useful information ... maybe.

The first ski I acquired was last registered in AZ several years back. No CA registration so a little simpler; I just went to one of the commercial entities here that deals with these messes and they applied the proper verbage to have title/reg issued in my name. Just a bit more costly, but no physical trips to DMV (or revisits for various details).

The second ski I acquired was from someone who purchased it with trailer from an "estate sale". This setup had been previously registered in CA so I went thru the honest approach with the commercial agency. I needed to get the last registered owners' names and addresses (2 different people), send registered letters to both with request to sign over the ski and trailer. The letter to the last owner of the ski came back undelivered so that was used to prove to DMV "due diligence" in finding the owner and title and registration was issued, but I needed to pay back-registration fees because a non-operation registration had not been done. I tried the same process with the last known owner of the trailer; she called me back, recalled selling the trailer to someone, would not sign the paper for me. I told her I would be sending another letter and for her to just not sign for it ... this worked. Of course I did not want to put in a lot of work or money on the ski while it took about 6 months to get it all straightened out. Good thing I have a bit of room to store things.

I think it better, once finding out that the ski is not stolen, to just deal with HIN on any registration as if it were a new or new to state ski. I will try this on the remaining 2 unregistered ones.

Because a lot of sellers do not want to make the trip to get a replacement title, I would like to suggest that in additon to bill of sale that you prepare a power of attorney form where the seller gives you full authorization to deal with the property (again, I would only use HIN for identification). No title or current registration of course means the price goes down.

Like I said ... among the drivel I hope there is something helpful here.

Rod