carbon ring revelation!

[Duane72]

Ok, going to throw myself on the block here. When I started working on seadoos I had little knowledge of some of their systems. One thing I never could picture was how the carbon ring sealed the hull. From everything I read and such it seemed the ring fit tight on the drive shaft and prevented water from entering the hull. You could "tighten" the ring by tightening the clamp on the boot it was installed in. I just finished rebuilding the pump and driveline on an 02 GTX. It was the first time I ever had to pull a drive shaft on these. Putting it back together I'm like "man the carbon ring doesn't fit on the shaft tight??", then it dawned on me the pressure of the stainless ring against the carbon ring is all that keeps the water out. This honestly blew my mind! The engineering looks right, and the concept makes sense, it just blows my mind that it is all that keeps water from backing into the hull. And that the boot compression is all that keeps that tension. Serious "DUH!" moment, but hey, that's the best way to learn is from experience. I could not picture that concept (from just reading about it, unless someone had explained it to me) until I assembled it myself piece by piece.

Learn something new every day. And one more system learned on these machines. I find I like them more and more every time.

 

[Michael211_2000]

then it dawned on me the pressure of the stainless ring against the carbon ring is all that keeps the water out.

Yup, you learn something new everyday... wonder what you'll learn tomorrow? LOL!

Additionally, the carbon ring acts as it's own lubricant and sealant as it slowly wears down (should be VERY slow though... eventually they all have to be replaced)... though this seal does leak just a little by design, it should never leak very much just a slow drip.

I recently had to replace the water seal on my spa's waterpump, guess what... it was just like the Seadoo carbon ring seal, but with a metal coil spring holding the pressure on the 2 halves of the seal and much smaller of course. My big jetboat with it's Berkely jetpump does it a different way, with a seal "packing" of marine grease impregnated lead/cotten strips which are packed in tightly around the driveshaft sealing it but letting it turn as well. Also drips just a trace of water when running, by design.

Regards!

- Michael

 

[Duane72]

Well, I have to learn something apparently. LOL We put it in the water this afternoon and the hull takes on water still. Not from anything I rebuilt thankfully. I think there is a hose leaking somewhere. When you tilt the ski you can here water trickling back towards the rear of the hull. It isn't enough to prevent us from riding it since the sumps take care of what little comes in. Would fill the hull if left in overnight though I think. We put it up on a dry dock, will fill the hull part way with water at some point and see where it comes out. I'm just thankful the thing runs again and goes well in the water!

Would have never guessed they use the same seal config on a spa waterpump Michael. Especially since they can leak by design. Wild. The carbon ring acting as it's own lubricant is pretty ingenious actually.

 

[Michael211_2000]

Try putting your hull in the water with the seats off and a flashlight, with the engine not running take a good look around inside the hull and see if you see any water seeping in. If not, then get somebody to steer for you and start it and you keep looking inside the hull with flashlight for any signs of water coming in.

Also, get yourself an electric automatic bilge pump and install it in your hull man! Wire the auto wire directly to the battery hot post so the pump is in auto mode ALL the time, put a rocker switch in the glove box (I put mine in the front of the glovebox) so you can turn it on manually to check for operation on occassion, get a 90 degree thru-hull fitting and put it in the hull right behind the rear seat under the grab handle and plumb it to the pump... the peace of mind is priceless!!!

In the case of my spa's pump, a little leak hurts nothing the motor is seperate from the pump there is a shaft between them any minor seeping while running just drops down to the slab below and evaporates. The design was definitely the same kind of seal as our SeaDoo's though.

- Michael

 

[Duane72]

Did the open seat first thing when we slid it off the trailer. We had to "walk it" several dozen yards to get out of all the weeds and junk that moved in on the ramp. We looked while it was sitting there. I could hear it just couldn't see it for anything. Sounded way back int he back maybe under the exhaust or something.

I'm wondering if one of the boots the OPAS paddle rods slide back and forth in got torn somehow.

Like the bilge pump idea. If it were my ski I would probably do it immediately. Not sure the owner is up for dropping any more money into this one yet. He still has two that won't run. lol

 

[Michael211_2000]

I'm wondering if one of the boots the OPAS paddle rods slide back and forth in got torn somehow.

That's a very real possibility... they have a rubber bellows inside the stern of the hull that the linkage rods go thru, rubber can crack with age.

Like the bilge pump idea. If it were my ski I would probably do it immediately. Not sure the owner is up for dropping any more money into this one yet. He still has two that won't run. lol

And if this one sinks, then he'll have 3 that won't run! What a plan! LOL! ROF!

Seriously though, the 600 gph SeaSense auto bilge pump I bought from Academy Sports and Outdoors was only like $29, a 90 degree chromed thru-hull another $12, I had a spare lighted rocker switch and picked up an inline 25 amp fuse and it took all of 3 hours to install and plumb and wire. Much cheaper than getting water in the engine even 1 time due to it sinking at anchor or docked.

It's far too often that people come on here posting that they simply left their drain plugs open and their SeaDoo sunk at the launch and what do they do now....

- Michael

 

[Duane72]

Cant argue the logic, that's for sure. If I can't get the other two running I'm pretty sure he's going to just sell them as is. If I can he may still sell I'm not sure. So I don't know what's going to happen with this one either at this point. I've gotten to ride them a decent bit so the labor return is ok. But it has made me want one of my own pretty bad. Just can't put out the $$ for one right now. I've learned a LOT working on them though and like it because now I know what to look for if I ever go to get my own. But they can be addicting for sure!

 

[Duane72]

Still haven't gotten this sea doo in the water. I haven't gotten back to the owners house to get it since he doesn't seem too concerned about getting it running. I'm about to make the move because I want to ride it! lol I am thinking I will just pull the opas paddles and make covers to seal them off with before I put it in the water and see if that cures it. They are broken anyway and should be removed if not replaced.

 

[Michael211_2000]

I see good used OPAS paddles and linkages/lines listed on Ebay all the time, they're pretty inexpensive. Remember it's not just the paddles but there are linkages and water lines inside the hull that go to them to operate them!

Good luck! Why haven't you saved up some money over the winter and just offered to buy one from the guy, or ask him if he'd do some owner financing for you since he knows you well from the sound of it?

- Michael

 

[Duane72]

I see good used OPAS paddles and linkages/lines listed on Ebay all the time, they're pretty inexpensive. Remember it's not just the paddles but there are linkages and water lines inside the hull that go to them to operate them!

Good luck! Why haven't you saved up some money over the winter and just offered to buy one from the guy, or ask him if he'd do some owner financing for you since he knows you well from the sound of it?

- Michael

Hey Michael, if the hull doesn't leak after sealing off the paddles and hoses, etc. I might look at getting a used set for it. I just want to be sure that's it before even considering putting any $$ into it.

I thought about buying one from the owner, but just don't have the $$ for it right now, much less to put into the motor work I know they need. I can do the labor, but if I pull one apart I might as well rebuild the whole thing and can't afford the parts right now.

However, he did give me the go ahead to sell the two of them with trailer and I get anything over what he wants for them, which isn't much. I just am not sure the best place to pursue selling them or what to ask for them. Any ideas what skis usually go for with bad motors these days or where I can find out?

 

[Michael211_2000]

I just am not sure the best place to pursue selling them or what to ask for them. Any ideas what skis usually go for with bad motors these days or where I can find out?

Your local area CraigsList's are a good place to start, go to all the one in your state and search under Boats for SeaDoo (RXT, RXP, GTX, whatever model they are you have there) and see what listings come up what shape they're in and how much is being asked.... then take 15% or so off the asking price and that's likely what they'll sale for (everybody asks a little more than what they'll take generally in my observations). Now, conditon matters if the hulls are in really nice shape and have been kept clean and stored out of the sun that helps and it depends on why the motor's are bad if the motors need complete overhauls or are ruined then they're worth nothing more than the hull and trailer but if there's only 1 main problem in each motor and the jetpumps are in ok condition they might be worth a little more.... I bought my RXT off the Houston Craigslist with the motor already in pieces (taken apart for diagnosis at a SeaDoo dealership). The repair estimate to replace a bent connecting rod and reassemble and reinstall everything was so much the owner decided to just sell the thing as it sat for whatever he could get. His 1st price was $3200, a week later he relisted it for $2500, and at that point in late Fall I figured he wasn't getting any offers at all and the dealership wanted him to either let them fix it or come and get it out of their hair, so I offered him $2000 and we settled at $2100 on the trailer with the engine in plastic crates. I loaded the engine up and towed it home and went to town on it getting the service manual on CD and the few parts needed off Ebay (good used straight connecting rod) and SeaDooWarehouse (gaskets and new stretch bolts) as I recall. I've put 12 hours on it since then (we had the drought of 2011 drop the lake level so low so fast I barely got to use it that 1st summer I had it).

You could also take some pics of them and list them on here with best description you can as to what may be wrong with the motors and people here may make you offers on them! IDK.

Good luck!

- Michael

 

[Duane72]

Sounds good. Not to much listed in this area on Craigslist right now. I'll try some other sell sites too and see what they are going for. Appreciate it Michael!

 

[Michael211_2000]

I'm going to guess that if the watercraft are functional right now, then people will use what they have thru the summer months and then list for sale next Fall... unless they upgrade to a brand new watercraft, but then they may trade-in their old one and some dealers list their used inventory on CraigsList and some have their own websites they list them at. Try area dealerships, see if they have websites where you can search their inventory.

- Michael

 

[Duane72]

I'm going to guess that if the watercraft are functional right now, then people will use what they have thru the summer months and then list for sale next Fall... unless they upgrade to a brand new watercraft, but then they may trade-in their old one and some dealers list their used inventory on CraigsList and some have their own websites they list them at. Try area dealerships, see if they have websites where you can search their inventory.

- Michael

Checked that out initially. Unfortunately we have no "local" dealerships. We'll see what getting some pictures of them up brings.