Bought by first Seadoo 4 stoke, need information

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I wouldn't use Amsoil either, I like NAPA branded oil. NAPA oil is used by many fleet operators.

 

[sselzer]

What lock nut? There is an adjustment nob on the bottum of the handlebars but I loosen that all the way and it still tight.

 

[lamajama]

Again I am no expert on seadoos, but I know how to read and research. AMSoil put up a pretty evidence that their Synthetic is approved for our application SC or not. Seems Legit. I downloaded the bulletin somewhere if you want to see it. Its AMSoil wcf 10w 40. According to AMSoil's Lab work, Seadoo employs the common technique of blanket "only use our oil or your engine will explode" statements.

I see another manual for this year that says "2004 GTX Special Supercharged" Model 6159/6160". What makes a particular machine "Special" isn't indicated... Although mine appears to be the Model 6141/6142 (I would assume just a color difference) this manual states that "4-stroke engine oil SAE 10W40 (API service classification SG, SH or SJ)" is the correct oil. So it appears that I'm off the hook for the $16.99 per quart/litre. I did send a message to Seadoo itself asking for a "clarification" as I was interested in just what they will say. I will post the answer...fully anticipating it will be bafflegarb.

 

[lamajama]

Googling around I came across a "2004 technical update". It's a document sent to BRP dealers it looks like..

http://www.sea-doo.net/SHOPMANUALS/PWC/2004/sdd2004_013_techn update_a.pdf

On Page 3-21 it clearly states that you CANNOT use any synthetic oil on these engines and recommends Bombardier
Oil 219700346 part number.

Searching this number sent me to more info - from this site!

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?25337-OIL-answered-once-and-for-all!!!!!

And for that thread

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?19184-Oil-Change&highlight=tec synthetic oils

Where they say that #219700346 is now replaced by the semi-synthetic oil that my local dealer is using. Yeesh.

I guess the key phrase is "equivalent". :facepalm:

 

[red2blue]

What lock nut? There is an adjustment nob on the bottum of the handlebars but I loosen that all the way and it still tight.

sigh...."linkage at the nozzle"

You found the handle bar's end of the steering cable. There is another end.

 

[red2blue]

re oils...synthetic...amsoil...brp.....fred-n-barney's...

As long as it's wet clutch applicable...all will be well...hence the save yourself a few bucks advice towards the valvoline 10w40 4stroke motorcycle oil. Buy it on sale at crack-auto in the spring for $2.99-$3.99 a quart...otherwise it's $5-$6 regularly. Toss in an over priced filter and set of o-rings and an oil change will cost the do-it-your selfer...$30-$35.

1/3 the cost of the stealership.

 

[lamajama]

re oils...synthetic...amsoil...brp.....fred-n-barney's...

As long as it's wet clutch applicable...all will be well...hence the save yourself a few bucks advice towards the valvoline 10w40 4stroke motorcycle oil. Buy it on sale at crack-auto in the spring for $2.99-$3.99 a quart...otherwise it's $5-$6 regularly. Toss in an over priced filter and set of o-rings and an oil change will cost the do-it-your selfer...$30-$35.

1/3 the cost of the stealership.

It's interesting reading that old "update" from Bombardier and their actual discussion on the oils - that the specific oils are
related to the ceramic washers that are helping the supercharger work so well. I wonder when they sent out an update
to change those washers after they realized how bad they were..

 

[sselzer]

I already bought 4 quarts of Amsoil 4 stroke marine, for $8 each. Their website site bulletin report states it's safe in use in Seadoo's with superchargers and if the oil causes failure they'll pay the damages.

 

[lamajama]

Not saying anything at all against you sselzer - you do what makes you feel comfortable but I have always
thought those "warranties" are useless. I would imagine the exclusion list is so long and wide it would be virtually
impossible to prove that oil caused any harm whatsoever. I see those statements in many products and have never
heard of any actually paying out. (I'm in the insurance industry and love reading exclusions and exceptions. The language
is so encompassing it's laughable sometimes).

Amsoil up here in Canada is about $14-15 litre. I can actually have XPS semi-synthetic SHIPPED all the way to the from the
US to the border for $8.99 a quart and no sales tax. That's likely what I'll end up doing...

 

[KK40384]

I already bought 4 quarts of Amsoil 4 stroke marine, for $8 each. Their website site bulletin report states it's safe in use in Seadoo's with superchargers and if the oil causes failure they'll pay the damages.

You willing to test out that theory? Let us know how that turns out for you. They'll take the failure and blame it on the SC washer by design and you're left with a blown SC and motor and a good story to tell.

 

[lamajama]

You willing to test out that theory? Let us know how that turns out for you. They'll take the failure and blame it on the SC washer by design and you're left with a blown SC and motor and a good story to tell.

a...n....d therein lies the "fine print" I was mentioning.

 

[lamajama]

Just thought I'd check out the fine print..

WHAT THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER:
• AMSOIL lubricants used in mechanically deficient equipment. Examples of mechanically deficient equipment include
flawed or defective equipment due to abnormal operation, negligence, abuse, previous damage, or improper modification,
including use of components other than those from AMSOIL or AMSOIL aftermarket partners.
• Failure of equipment due to a pre-existing condition that is unrelated to the use of AMSOIL.
• Repair or replacement of equipment because of normal wear.
• Failure of equipment when AMSOIL lubricants are not used in strict accordance with either the written recommendations of AMSOIL INC. or the OEM for warranty coverage. The customer or user is solely responsible for
determining a product’s merchantability or fitness (“suitability”) for a particular purpose and assumes all risks
and liabilities when used other than in strict accordance with either the written recommendations of AMSOIL
or the OEM for warranty coverage.
• AMSOIL lubricants used in any manned aircraft or aviation application.
• AMSOIL lubricants that have been used for the purposes of racing.
• AMSOIL lubricants that have been used without the written approval of AMSOIL INC. in applications where the
OEM-required lubricant specifications do not match those stated by AMSOIL.
• AMSOIL lubricants contaminated after leaving the AMSOIL premises. Examples include contamination due to improper
handling, re-packaging, storage or filtration and contamination from dirty dispensing equipment.
• Any allegedly defective AMSOIL lubricant for which a reasonable sample has not been preserved.
• AMSOIL lubricants that have been used in conjunction with any other product or additive that has not been authorized
for use by AMSOIL INC.

Any of the bolded lines are open to "interpretation" by Amsoil. To me the hardest one will be conclusive proof that the oil was used in "strict accordance" of Amsoil's guidelines. Do you have proof of purchase for every specific quart? Do you have proof that you changed the oil at Seadoo's stated intervals? How do you prove this? Digital photo of hr's? Those dates of photo's can be manipulated. It can go on and on.

Again not criticizing using Amsoil, just taking a company (any company) to task for such "warranties".

My son's friend had his new Camero engine crap out and they would not cover it under warranty as, since he did the oil changes himself (he loves doing that stuff himself), he could not PROVE when he did them, and what product was used
especially in PRIOR oil changes (as the "current" oil was , of course just fine...)

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I simply ask myself if AmsOil is certified to meet the oil spec'd for the engine in the manufacturer's product.

Just as I can understand that synthetic oils may not have the proper friction modifiers in the additive package for the wet clutch on the SC'ers. Many superchargers have their own reservoir, which is independent of the engine oil.

 

[lamajama]

I simply ask myself if AmsOil is certified to meet the oil spec'd for the engine in the manufacturer's product.

Just as I can understand that synthetic oils may not have the proper friction modifiers in the additive package for the wet clutch on the SC'ers. Many superchargers have their own reservoir, which is independent of the engine oil.

I'm sure I read in that "update" that in Seadoo's case (at least the 2004), the SC oil is from the engine oil reservoir. Not sure about
other years or makes. I just find it a bit WTF that they make it so ambiguous really - and most of the issues centered on Seadoo
screwing up with the ceramic washers...

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I'm sure I read in that "update" that in Seadoo's case (at least the 2004), the SC oil is from the engine oil reservoir. Not sure about
other years or makes. I just find it a bit WTF that they make it so ambiguous really - and most of the issues centered on Seadoo
screwing up with the ceramic washers...

Right. As far as I know, all seadoo SC engines rely on engine oil. So whatever is in the crankcase has to have an additive package balanced the SC's requirements in mind, assuming the SC is sensitve and needs some special friction modifiers or some such additive. I simply think of synthetic oil as a highly refined product that uses a cleaner (more pure) base stock and thus can handle more heat due to the molecule arrangement.

Maybe this explains how a Cadillac can go an additional 50miles with no water in the radiator before it totally seizes, and thus Cadillac recommends synthetic oil primarily for this reason? Or maybe Cadillac knows their customers aren't going to change their oil like they should and besides, it makes the EPA happier if oil changes are extended beyond any distance I would consider reasonable.

As far as ceramic clutch friction surfaces are concerned, it doesn't sound like a material I would choose for that application.

 

[mnehrkorn]

It's better to ask questions that to find out something the hard way. I've personally used both the BRP filter and k&n filter with good results. I mainly use the BRP due to cost. My local dealer here that's a mile away charges $12.xx for one.

Sorry to butt in on this thread, but can someone give me a part number for the filter? In case it differs between models, I have a 2011 GTS 130.

Thanks.

EDIT: I found the info I was looking for, no need to reply.