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99 SPX Voltage Issues?

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CReynoldsMIZ

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Can't get my 99 to run right. I'll run it down for you.

142 compression each lung.
Rebuilt carbs, have cleaned them 3 times now, new needles and seats on each one. 36 pop off pressure.
Good battery.
Plug wires trimmed.
New fuel selector, it is 1/4" barbs and the spx uses 5/16"(doubt it makes a difference but thought I would mention)
Accelerator pump squirts and works fine.
Brand new plugs.

Took it out a few weeks ago, it doesn't like to idle at all. Ski is stock and carbs are at 100% stock settings 1-1/2 turns on the lows, 0 on the highs. Won't idle at all, had to keep on the throttle. I have now installed a TTO so will monitor it and I set it on the trailer at 3350 rpms at this moment.

It has a little big if you idle and the full throttle it, but it runs fine after it clears out. Reaches max rpms I am sure. Will check with the TTO next weekend.

But it is a bear to get started in the water, rode it two hours last weekend and never shut it down for fear of getting stranded. It starts not all that easily on the trailer as well, and it seems very cold blooded, meaning it takes some throttling to get it to where it idles nice, meaning if I just started it up it would probably idle around 2400 and die unless I coax it for a little. Once it gets warm for about 30 sec or so it will idle pretty nice a 3350. Reaches full rev on the trailer, got it up to 6950 confirmed with the TTO.

I tested the voltage thinkin it might be rectifier, and it started at 12.6 on the battery when not running and jumped to 13.16 when running. It would not change, not even .01V on the trailer varying rpms all the way to max WOT. Steady at 13.16.

Anybody got any ideas? I'm pretty much stumped. I haven't done the rectifier red wire thing, because that I believe wouldn't allow me to get max rpms on the water which I am capable of, but the 13.16 seems low to me and the fact that it doesn't vary at all has me wondering as well.

Gurus, please share the wealth. I hate electronics, although I'm wondering if excessive rotary clearance might be happening as well.
 
Cmon guys i need some help here. Can anyone tell me what their 787 is supposed to read voltage wise or if Im barking up the wrong tree?

[MENTION=31048]LouDoo[/MENTION] [MENTION=51824]Matt Braley[/MENTION] [MENTION=41828]Minnetonka4me[/MENTION] [MENTION=57696]68ragtop[/MENTION]
 
When did the problem start, & do you remember what happened first? Is there any chance the R valve timing was accidentally changed at some point? Sure sounds like your voltages are perfect.

Did you adjust the carb sync linkage rod? Set them the same with the idle screw backed all the way out? I think that would have too be waaaay off to cause the issues your describing though.....
 
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68ragtop said:
When did the problem start, & do you remember what happened first? Is there any chance the R valve timing was accidentally changed at some point? Sure sounds like your voltages are perfect.

Did you adjust the carb sync linkage rod? Set them the same with the idle screw backed all the way out? I think that would have too be waaaay off to cause the issues your describing though.....
Click to expand...

Well I traded A member here on the forum for it last year, and he said it had trouble idling and starting so figured it was the N/S since they leaked bad an had two different pop off springs so I was suprised when that didn't fix it. I have cleaned the carbs twice, went through three cans of carb cleaner and checked every orfice, they all spray crystal clear. I've done carbs before and never had a problem getting them to run right.

The engine at one point has had a new counterbalance shaft from what I was told, so I don't know the timing, but I would suspect with bad timing it wouldn't run well at full throttle or even anything more than 1/3 throttle, which it does right now. It is just keeping it idling and low speeds. I have set the carbs to stock settings and verified it about a dozen times. Frustrating to say the least
 
My first skis were 92 580's I ended up using several engines to make one of them run. One of them idled bad & had a bad hesitation off idle that was making me crazy. It turned out that I had the wrong rotary valve in it. the valve was for a single carb 1990 & I had it in a 1992 dual carb setup. I bought a used one that was correct for the ski & timed it. Made a huge difference. If you feel confident about the carbs, I would go through the steps to inspect the valve, & verify its timing position. really shouldn't take that llong & you can print out a timing wheel from a .pdf that is floating around here somewhere on the site.

Hopefully we get some more opinions here as I don't want to put you through unnecessary work, but I could see that being a suspect with your symptoms.

BTW, what did you ever do with your 97xp? still have it?
 
I feel super good about the carbs, I quadruple checked them pretty much and have never had an issue rebuilding them. So you were saying that a wrong rotary valve can make it run and idle bad? I guess I was under the understanding with the wrong rotary valve it wouldn't run at all. I talked to kicker and he said his 99spx voltage stays between 13.1 and 13.2 when running, so maybe I am barking up the wrong tree looking at the electrical. I was just thinkin it should be at like 13.6 or .7 but what do I know. Hmm.

Nope don't have the 97 XP anymore, sold it last summer, when my 96 XP restoration was complete and then traded that one to BNelson for this one. I will love this ski when I get it fine tuned. It does have the wrong rotary cover on it as this one is white, with a gray motor. So maybe I need to investigate. I got 9 days before we else for the 4th to the lake for a Long weekend and need this 100%
 
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Did you by chance change out the line on the accel pump while you were in there? Reason I ask is because dr Honda changed out one on my 97s carbs and it happened to have the little restrictor in it that slows down the recharge, so every time I feathered the throttle it was getting a full shot of fuel. It reaaaaaaly didn't like that. Also correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the carbs with the accel pump get the LS needle set at 1 turn (yep, just checked my shop manual, my 97 with accel pump gets set at 1 turn on the low with a 142.5 main and a 70 low jet)

Your low being 1/2 a turn too far out could cause your junky idle and poor low end, what do the plugs look like after idling (and presumably dying)?
 
[MENTION=51493]Strizzo[/MENTION] THANK YOU! I totally forgot something, a month or two ago I PM'D [MENTION=41828]Minnetonka4me[/MENTION] or posted something about a fuel restrictor in one of those lines on an accelerator pump. Here is what happened, was putting together my carb on a 99 GTI single carb, i pulled off one of those accel pump lines and the hose snapped after the barb. I tried to push the line back on, but there was something lodged in there. So i tried to drill the line to see what was clogging it and to my suprise brass shavings came out. I somehow lost the piece, but OBVIOUSLY there is some kind of jet in the line of the accelerator pump that limits how much fuel it puts out. I didnt even think about it really, but i changed those accelerator pump lines out with tygon lines on my GTI and it feels a little rich on the low end and floods pretty easily and its probably because that restrictor isnt in there.
 
Now onto this 99 SPX, it does have the original lines on the accelerator pump, but i dont think they have been cut or anything to make them lose that restrictor but I am not 100% positive.

Was really hoping someone who had some spare ones of these accelerator pump lines could cut one open and see what in fact is in the line. Let me ask [MENTION=57696]68ragtop[/MENTION] this, when you had your problems starting your 97 XP last summer, had you replaced the accelerator pump lines?

Also Strizz, are you sure you are correct on the turns for the low speed? Seadoosource says that a 97 XP should be @ 1.75 turns out on a 97 XP and @ 1.5 turns out for a 99 SPX. I know for a fact mine is at 1.5 turns out
 
I didn't replace the accelerator lines on my xp. It idled ok, & even ran decent. The problem I had was the restarts were terrible. I don't remember exactly where I ended up, but it was somewhere around 2 full turns out & it started running much, much better. restarts were nearly instant & it would idle through no wake zones for long distances no problem. So on my ski, the stock low speed setting was too lean. in 98 I believe they changed the low speed jet size.
 
Hmm, well I know the manual says +/- 1/4 turn, but here is the thing, i cant tell if it is rich or lean when i am idling. I know to get it started i have to hold it wide open throttle and feather it to get it going. I found the restrictor jet for the 99 GTI. I am going to order it from OSD Parts i think.
 
CReynoldsMIZ said:
Now onto this 99 SPX, it does have the original lines on the accelerator pump, but i dont think they have been cut or anything to make them lose that restrictor but I am not 100% positive.

Was really hoping someone who had some spare ones of these accelerator pump lines could cut one open and see what in fact is in the line. Let me ask [MENTION=57696]68ragtop[/MENTION] this, when you had your problems starting your 97 XP last summer, had you replaced the accelerator pump lines?

Also Strizz, are you sure you are correct on the turns for the low speed? Seadoosource says that a 97 XP should be @ 1.75 turns out on a 97 XP and @ 1.5 turns out for a 99 SPX. I know for a fact mine is at 1.5 turns out
Click to expand...

I was having a hard time starting and running in the water,and it took a long time to clear out once it finally fired. It turned out that the issue was combined with the accel pump restrictor and the needle seat o-rings, while they worked fine when dr Honda had them, in between shrank and started leaking like mofos. The result was it loaded up pretty bad at idle and I had to ease into the throttle or the accel pump squirt would bog it down.

Dr Honda remembered that he had replaced the line and that it would have the restrictor in it, so he mailed it to me, and I replaced the o rings on the seats. It finally wants to start on first crank after stopping for a few minutes. For the ls setting, that's what I've got in my copy of the 97 factory service manual, I downloaded a 96 and it's the same, but the 99 manual does say 1.5 turns, but uses different jetting: mains are 140mag and 142.5 pto and a 67.5 pilot and a 36-40 psi pop off.
 
Yeah. Well I know the N/S is fine, I just replaced them and they popped at 36psi and no leaking whatsoever. I will have to double check and make sure the restrictor is still on there. Yes I did verify that my jetting was all the same and exactly what you listed.

Im going to check the rotary timing next and the restrictor while i am at it if i can.
 
No question it can be tricky to figure out. (carbs I mean) But factory setting on mine, was too lean at idle.

Here's what I found. I screwed around with pop off pressures & carb syncing. replaced needles & seats thinking I was getting nozzle drip after the engine was off. It turned out to be none of that.

After running out of ideas, I decided to go out further than spec'd on the low speeds. While on the trailer, I turned them out 1/4 turn. no change..... Turned them out another 1/4 & the idle started to drop. I believe I went another 1/4 & it dropped a little more. Then I raised the idle stop screws & brought it back up to 3K. After that, it was night & day. I think a 2 stroke ski will run better if its a little rich vs a little lean.

I need to find the thread I made last year to confirm the details as its a little sketchy.
 
If you have a tinytach or something similar the easiest way is basically just as Ragtop said. Set the idle to spec then start turning the low speed screw either in or out until you can get the highest rpm from just adjusting the low screw once there a a small turn either direction should cause a drop in rpm, at this point set the idle back to spec with the idle screw and the low speed is good to go.
 
mikidymac said:
If you have a tinytach or something similar the easiest way is basically just as Ragtop said. Set the idle to spec then start turning the low speed screw either in or out until you can get the highest rpm from just adjusting the low screw once there a a small turn either direction should cause a drop in rpm, at this point set the idle back to spec with the idle screw and the low speed is good to go.
Click to expand...

What do you mean the highest rpm? So you mean I can't really set it on the trailer? I've always been in the camp of if you set it to stock it will run perfect.
 
Stock doesn't always work and the setting given is just a starting point. There are too many variables for just one setting and forget it that is why they have a plus or minus number. You could have an air leak, different water elevation or even humidity, and temperature can cause changes. Strap the ski to the trailer in the water and that is where you will do the adjusting.

Step:
1. Start the ski on the trailer in the water and warm it up.
2. Set the idle rpm with the tach to factory setting using idle screw.
3. Turn the low speed screw in or out until you see the tach start to go up, slowly keep turning it the same direction that made it go up until you see it start to drop, then turn back the other way until it comes up to the high reading again. This is the deal setting for "Your" ski's low speed screw.
4. Set the idle back to factory setting with idle screw.

If you have two carbs you need to be doing this to each at the same time and settings need to be the same. Ain't you glad you just grew that third arm.
 
mikidymac said:
Stock doesn't always work and the setting given is just a starting point. There are too many variables for just one setting and forget it that is why they have a plus or minus number. You could have an air leak, different water elevation or even humidity, and temperature can cause changes. Strap the ski to the trailer in the water and that is where you will do the adjusting.

Step:
1. Start the ski on the trailer in the water and warm it up.
2. Set the idle rpm with the tach to factory setting using idle screw.
3. Turn the low speed screw in or out until you see the tach start to go up, slowly keep turning it the same direction that made it go up until you see it start to drop, then turn back the other way until it comes up to the high reading again. This is the deal setting for "Your" ski's low speed screw.
4. Set the idle back to factory setting with idle screw.

If you have two carbs you need to be doing this to each at the same time and settings need to be the same. Ain't you glad you just grew that third arm.
Click to expand...

Haha. I was wondering how you do this with two carbs. I think I might make a screwdriver type device with some notches that will fit over the t handle of the screws on the adjuster. Might take it down to the river on Thursday and try It out.
 
When I was messing with mine, I didn't get that precise at first. way too hard to do while its running. I could turn them with my fingers using the built in T on the screw & do approx 1/4 turns by feel. as soon as I new I was close. I then shut it down & checked to see how far out I was with each screw. Then, backed them both out so they were exactly the same.

If your problems are from being lean, you would know it from the idle speed dropping as you backed the screws out, but the idle would still be smooth & not stumbling. Do you have access to a good automotive timing light? I have a timing light that has a built in tach reading. That's another easy way you could monitor it.
 
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could you pinch off the feed to the accel pump to get an idea of the mixture at idle? then you could know for sure if it was lean or rich.
 
Does the fact that I have to start it in the water at WOT mean anything even tho the N/S are brand new mean anything? Oh btw it has new diaphragms on the carbs as well.
 
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