I have a 98 seadoo speedster that the drivers side engine will just all of a sudden die on me. I recently rebuilt the top end and the carbs. it idles great and has great throttle response, perfect compression (150psi both cyl.) the rave valves are clean and it will turn over freely by hand with the spark plugs out. but when out on the lake it will just bog and die out almost like it is picking up a rope or something in the jet pump. Then it will start right back up run fine then do it again. I was thinking maybe it is partially siezing due to lack of oil but the oil pump seems to be pumping and I have extra oil in the gas due to rebuilding both engines. I am lost. Any Ideas?
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98 speedster 787 twin dying..help!!!
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timmyboy76
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swap carbs from other motor, see if then, it acts up..
I had that happen to me a few times. Try giving it gas and pulling the choke out a little. If that gets you up on plane, you know there's something up with either your carbs or your gas or a combination of the two. For me, it would bog out and cut off, but run great at idle-2500rpm. When giving it gas it would bog right around 3000 and die. Pulled the choke out a little to see if there was a gas issue and it seemed to kick it into gear and work properly. Once above the 3000rpm mark, it ran great, just that initial bump over was causing issues.
From what I understand, there's 2 carbs on each motor and the second one is like a booster for higher RPM's, which sounds like that's where you're having trouble. I haven't taken mine apart yet, but I know I need to.
From what I understand, there's 2 carbs on each motor and the second one is like a booster for higher RPM's, which sounds like that's where you're having trouble. I haven't taken mine apart yet, but I know I need to.
mine runs great and has great throttle response I can pin it all the way from a dead stop and it doesn't bog or anything. but after a minute or two of mid to full throttle it just all of a sudden stops. then it will start right back up idle kind of funky then run great again for a minute and then stop again. like I said before it seems alomost like something is almost grabing the drive shaft and stoppping the motor. I can turn the motor over with the spark plugs out by hand all day long easily and the compression is good. I am lost
timmyboy76
New Member
leave it alone...
it runs, go have fun....might've just been something dumb...throttle cable, stuck plate..etc, whatever, your boat runs bit*** now...:cheers:
I swapped the carbs today and took it to the lake. I was expecting one of the motors to act up but it ran great. I drove it around for about a half of an hour and like I said it ran great. why would it run so good now? that it odd to me. I didn't do anything differently.
it runs, go have fun....might've just been something dumb...throttle cable, stuck plate..etc, whatever, your boat runs bit*** now...:cheers:
Wish this problem could be resolved, then I'd know where to look on mine. See, problem is, both times on the lake when mine did this, the starter bit the dust and I couldn't restart the engine. And I have a sportster, so I had to get towed. I have been entertaining the idea of pulling the carb(s) off and taking them to a friend who knows carbs, having him take a look at them with me. Maybe it is something goofy, that disconnecting and reconnecting would fix, but it's getting a little late in the year to be stranded on the lake while trying to troubleshoot.
Wish this problem could be resolved, then I'd know where to look on mine. See, problem is, both times on the lake when mine did this, the starter bit the dust and I couldn't restart the engine. And I have a sportster, so I had to get towed. I have been entertaining the idea of pulling the carb(s) off and taking them to a friend who knows carbs, having him take a look at them with me. Maybe it is something goofy, that disconnecting and reconnecting would fix, but it's getting a little late in the year to be stranded on the lake while trying to troubleshoot.
what exactly is happening to yours? when it dies does it cut out fast or bog down then die. when you try to restart it are you sure its the starter and not the engine locked up? check to make sure the oil pump is pumping, check compression and right after it cuts out take the spark plugs out and try to turn it over by hand. both times your starter had to be replaced? where they used? was this boat sunk at any time or have a lot of water in engine compartment?
what exactly is happening to yours? when it dies does it cut out fast or bog down then die. when you try to restart it are you sure its the starter and not the engine locked up? check to make sure the oil pump is pumping, check compression and right after it cuts out take the spark plugs out and try to turn it over by hand. both times your starter had to be replaced? where they used? was this boat sunk at any time or have a lot of water in engine compartment?
It will be running, bog a little bit, and cut completely out. When I tried to restart it the first time the hot brush lead came off, but it did turn the engine over and restart it once. After it died the second time it was tow time. Then after soldering the lead back to the bolt and cleaning the starter (last person to open it only replaced 1 brush instead of 2, and GREASED the inside) and reinstalling, got it started, ran great about 10 minutes, then bog a bit, and died again. This time when I hit the starter, same thing as last time, just a click after turning the engine over once. This time the middle of the brush lead broke in half, so now I just got a new starter and might be putting it in tomorrow. There's an oil pump in these? I am curious, my plugs came out uneven http://i35.tinypic.com/2e51p2r.jpg That should be a picture of them. My oil line coming off the tank has had an air bubble at the top, it's not completely full of oil, and I don't know if it's sucking any in. But aside from that, I can't get the boat out anymore this year, because if it dies I'm on my own out there, and I'm tired of rowing it. But to my knowledge, it's never been flooded or sunk, I work with the guy I bought it from and he never sank it, barely ever used it. So yeah, I'm kind of confused, this is my first boat, and I'm having a dog of a time with it.
this is a 2 stroke older sportster right? If so then yes there is an oil pump (unless someone switched it to pre-mix). it mixes the oil with the gas for you so that you don't have to premix it. Not sure what engine is in the boat but the oil pump is either in the front of the engine where the magneto/stator housing is, or underneath where the carburetors are. either way you should bleed the oil pump by loosening the bleeder bolt on the front of the oil pump. Then the best way to make sure it is pumping is to hold the oil pump lever wide open (the lever has a cable attached to it) and watch the small oil lines that go to the manifold and make sure you see oil pumping through the lines to the manifold. I would even get new 1/8th inch clear oil line and replace the old stuff because sometimes the old stuff cracks and that could cause you to not get enough oil to the cylinders. as far as your spark plugs go it is hard to read them when not sure how long they have been ran in the engine and what rpm the engine was last ran. but the way it looks the white one is lean. after you make sure your oild pump is working you might want to pull the carbs and make sure they are clean and your fuel has no water in it and your fuel lines are clean. also check compression of each cylinder
timmyboy76
New Member
It will be running, bog a little bit, and cut completely out. When I tried to restart it the first time the hot brush lead came off, but it did turn the engine over and restart it once. After it died the second time it was tow time. Then after soldering the lead back to the bolt and cleaning the starter (last person to open it only replaced 1 brush instead of 2, and GREASED the inside) and reinstalling, got it started, ran great about 10 minutes, then bog a bit, and died again. This time when I hit the starter, same thing as last time, just a click after turning the engine over once. This time the middle of the brush lead broke in half, so now I just got a new starter and might be putting it in tomorrow. There's an oil pump in these? I am curious, my plugs came out uneven http://i35.tinypic.com/2e51p2r.jpg That should be a picture of them. My oil line coming off the tank has had an air bubble at the top, it's not completely full of oil, and I don't know if it's sucking any in. But aside from that, I can't get the boat out anymore this year, because if it dies I'm on my own out there, and I'm tired of rowing it. But to my knowledge, it's never been flooded or sunk, I work with the guy I bought it from and he never sank it, barely ever used it. So yeah, I'm kind of confused, this is my first boat, and I'm having a dog of a time with it.
jake, i'd pull the carbs, clean them out (internally)..no need for rebuild kit, and replace the inline filter, with auto store one/motorcycle one.
Are yuo referring to the oil line, going to top of tank, if so, mine has air pocket too, but cant see how the bottom line will have one, since gravity plays a role.
Interesting...
Ok, got out there and did some work today, installed the new starter and compression tested it. The front cylinder has 165psi in it, and the rear has 15. That's right, 15. Being that this is my first ever boat it never occurred to me that it might be a problem that when it ran it sounded like my old 1 cylinder snowmobile. I thought that was normal. So I have an obvious compression problem to start with. I'll pull the carbs off this winter and clean them (with help of my friend who knows carbs) and check the oil pump then too. The air pocket is right off the oil tank, so I just wasn't sure on that if that was supposed to be there. It is the highest point, so I can see why there'd be air there.
The plugs were installed a few months ago, and have probably 5 hours total on them.
As for the engine, it's been run a bit on 1 cylinder it appears, how much damage do you think is done? Should I be looking for another engine and rebuild that this winter? Or can I keep this one and just fix the compression and have it be ok?
Ok, got out there and did some work today, installed the new starter and compression tested it. The front cylinder has 165psi in it, and the rear has 15. That's right, 15. Being that this is my first ever boat it never occurred to me that it might be a problem that when it ran it sounded like my old 1 cylinder snowmobile. I thought that was normal. So I have an obvious compression problem to start with. I'll pull the carbs off this winter and clean them (with help of my friend who knows carbs) and check the oil pump then too. The air pocket is right off the oil tank, so I just wasn't sure on that if that was supposed to be there. It is the highest point, so I can see why there'd be air there.
The plugs were installed a few months ago, and have probably 5 hours total on them.
As for the engine, it's been run a bit on 1 cylinder it appears, how much damage do you think is done? Should I be looking for another engine and rebuild that this winter? Or can I keep this one and just fix the compression and have it be ok?
http://i35.tinypic.com/2e51p2r.jpg
That's a pic of the plugs, someone said it looks like there's metal shavings on the 1 plug, but it seems as though the plug with the shavings is the one that was working. Pretty sure that was on the good cylinder.
I have another pic here
http://i26.tinypic.com/bjtag.jpg
I can get better or more pics if needed, to the naked eye it doesn't look like much more than a used plug, but the camera gets closer and larger than I can.
That's a pic of the plugs, someone said it looks like there's metal shavings on the 1 plug, but it seems as though the plug with the shavings is the one that was working. Pretty sure that was on the good cylinder.
I have another pic here
http://i26.tinypic.com/bjtag.jpg
I can get better or more pics if needed, to the naked eye it doesn't look like much more than a used plug, but the camera gets closer and larger than I can.
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The only hangup I have right now is that I have no hex tools, and the air filter or flame thingy whatever it's called is mounted to the top plate. I'll try and pick up some tools today or tomorrow and will post what I find as soon as I pull it. I'll try and get pics too. Thanks so much for the help so far, didn't know it was o-rings, thought I needed a gasket set!
Ok, pulled the head off today. What I saw wasn't pretty, and I'm hoping for a good outcome from this. This is what the impeller side cylinder looked like...
http://i34.tinypic.com/2nqcn5i.jpg
The front cylinder walls are nice and smooth, but when at top dead center the piston has some play, making me think the rings are froze on it. There's no play on the rear piston, obviously, if you look at the pic. Also when I pulled the head off, there's a bunch of like white boogery things on it.
http://i33.tinypic.com/xpy49e.jpg
Then finally, the top of the head looked like this. The dark side was the front side, so it looks like that cylinder was a bunch of problems, no compression, and it blackened the top of the piston, as well as what you see here.
http://i38.tinypic.com/w18vq1.jpg
http://i34.tinypic.com/2nqcn5i.jpg
The front cylinder walls are nice and smooth, but when at top dead center the piston has some play, making me think the rings are froze on it. There's no play on the rear piston, obviously, if you look at the pic. Also when I pulled the head off, there's a bunch of like white boogery things on it.
http://i33.tinypic.com/xpy49e.jpg
Then finally, the top of the head looked like this. The dark side was the front side, so it looks like that cylinder was a bunch of problems, no compression, and it blackened the top of the piston, as well as what you see here.
http://i38.tinypic.com/w18vq1.jpg
looke like a hone worst case, is there a shop anywhere around you like a motorcycle or boat anything like that? there are tools to measure for out of round and bore. if it is in specs a hone will clean it up and thats like $15 at most. pull the front jug off now its like 4 bolts down in there to see what the pistion looks like and take a pic. may need a piston and ring set and hone it out and put it back together.
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That would be oversized pistons then right? I'd do both cylinders right away, as the scratched walls have the rings that work, and the frozen rings haven't touched the walls, so they're smooth. So when I pull those bolts and pull the whole cylinder up, is that a gasket under that, or an o-ring also? And how hard is it to get the rings in when I replace rings, pistons, and try to put them in the cylinder? At least if the pistons and rings can be gotten for a reasonable price I can go that route.
That would be oversized pistons then right? I'd do both cylinders right away, as the scratched walls have the rings that work, and the frozen rings haven't touched the walls, so they're smooth. So when I pull those bolts and pull the whole cylinder up, is that a gasket under that, or an o-ring also? And how hard is it to get the rings in when I replace rings, pistons, and try to put them in the cylinder? At least if the pistons and rings can be gotten for a reasonable price I can go that route.
The one with compression is fine and it looks like the clyinder in the picture can just be honed you dont have to touch the other one with 165 psi
That's just the problem, the one with 165 psi is the one that's scratched. The other the ring is froze up, and it has 15psi compression. It also has a little play when at top dead center, i can wobble it a bit. Would honing the 1 cylinder change the size at all? Like would I need to get an oversized piston and rings?
Ok, it's possible I totally screwed up which cylinder had which compression. Upon pulling the cylinders today, I found the front piston rings are nice and moving, and the rear piston (one with the scratched cylinder) looks like this http://i36.tinypic.com/iz6b9v.jpg
Methinks it be time for a piston, 2 piston rigns, a cylinder, and a snap ring to hold the piston pin in as the one that was in there shot across the garage and is un-findable now. So, if I replace just that stuff, that shouldn't harm the engine right? If I get a replacement all that stuff? Money is an issue, so the least expensive route is the best. Unfortunately, going the route of the parts link listed at the top of the page is a last resort due to price, and bad experience.
Methinks it be time for a piston, 2 piston rigns, a cylinder, and a snap ring to hold the piston pin in as the one that was in there shot across the garage and is un-findable now. So, if I replace just that stuff, that shouldn't harm the engine right? If I get a replacement all that stuff? Money is an issue, so the least expensive route is the best. Unfortunately, going the route of the parts link listed at the top of the page is a last resort due to price, and bad experience.
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