96 GTX No Start

[etemplet]

I've had issues with this ski since I got it but it has gotten worse lately. I did much troubleshooting of the electrical about a year ago so I've been around this thing before. I am not getting power to the Yellow/Red wire that goes to the ignition coil. When I put 12 volts on it, the stater turns over. When I test the yellow/red wire for resistance to ground I get around 5.3 Ohms. I traced this down and found that on the solenoid I have 5.3 ohms resistance where the yellow/red wire connects. I am wondering of the solenoid is causing problems. It's either that or the MPEM. I've tried everything else... I think. LOL
Rectifier, CDI (replaced with spare, no change), Holder Relay (checked operation) Start/Stop switch is functioning. I have a spare MPEM but I'll have trouble identifying the key. LOL I'm actually just starting to get to the nitty gritty on this thing....

Previously I'd have to remove and reinsert the DESS Key and try it a few times. lately it has gotten a little ornery but always started and ran well. Sunday It started and quit.... No Fire I suppose so I reinserted the DESS Key and it started right up. We rode for about 40 minutes. Today... it started for a second and quit. I've been working on it... the starter will not turn over.

I have learned to listen to the Holder Relay pull in when I insert the DESS Key. When that happens I know the ski is gonna start up. Today I verified the Holder clicking but the ski will not turn over. That is all the info I have. I think the problem is in the MPEM. Help or input is appreciated

Note: I recently sent the MPEM off to have the keys set up and got a new key as well. I paid to have the MPEM checked out but there is only so much they can do to check things.

 

[mwat65]

It sounds like a dess post issue. They are known to make intermittent connection after they get worn.

 

[GGuillot]

The solenoid wouldn't cause it to quit, sounds like you've tried everything else except replacing the DESS post, that'd be my next move.

 

[etemplet]

Ah.... Intermittent contact. I was wondering about that when I did my testing. I noticed that the wires from the holder relay lose continuity after a second or two. I was trying to figure that out and it was consistent. It pulls in but it lets go quickly. I've been shopping on Ebay but not sure if I need an OEM, Used OEM, or if aftermarket will suffice. I'd rather have a new DESS post. Don't want any more trouble out of this bad boy.

When I get this solved I will have to pay attention to the holder relay. Right now it clicks 2 times. I've have heard so people say the holder relay doesn't do anything but save the battery from discharge but I have noticed that when the holder relay doesn't pull in, the ski doesn't start.

Thanks so much for the inp;ut

 

[jjsinaz]

The only thing the holder relay does is supply power to the CDI unit. That's it. Usually when they fail, you'll get 4 long beeps because the MPEM cannot communicate with the CDI since it has no power.

It does sound like a DESS post issue. Did you clean the contacts on the DESS post and key?

 

[etemplet]

The only thing the holder relay does is supply power to the CDI unit. That's it. Usually when they fail, you'll get 4 long beeps because the MPEM cannot communicate with the CDI since it has no power.

It does sound like a DESS post issue. Did you clean the contacts on the DESS post and key?

I don't get beeps on this thing except every now and again when it is feeling generous. So... no beep codes to help me out. I've cleaned the Post and also tried a different key. Post looks good and shiny.

 

[jjsinaz]

DESS post part number 278002773 . It's item 37 on the electrical accessories parts diagram

 

[Tony dee]

U can't use another key. The keys r programmed.

 

[etemplet]

DESS post part number 278002773 . It's item 37 on the electrical accessories parts diagram

Yes, I finally found it by doing a part number search and figuring out where the hide the part. Thanks for the help !!

I have a few skis and parts. I'm pretty sure I have the key but I'd rather keep this MPEM and hopefully it is working properly and well remain that way. I will change the DESS out today and post back.

 

[etemplet]

Changed out the DESS Post and "no joy" Same issue. I'm thinking it has to be the MPEM. I just wish I could be certain. I don't like changing parts for no reason.

 

[GGuillot]

Changed out the DESS Post and "no joy" Same issue. I'm thinking it has to be the MPEM. I just wish I could be certain. I don't like changing parts for no reason.

Is it not engaging the starter or sending 12 v to the solenoid? you're getting 2 beeps? gauges come on? Swap MPEMs from your 97' and try that, or is that one set up different from the 96'?

 

[GGuillot]

I see now, you're not getting beeps or 12 volts on the yel/red wire, which could mean your lanyard key is no longer handshaking and communicating with the MPEM. If you had a CANDOO Pro, I say hook that up, I couldn't get mine to do anything until I went in erased old keys and programmed the new one in. But you had it programmed with a new key so I don't know, definitely might be a bad MPEM.

 

[etemplet]

But you had it programmed with a new key so I don't know, definitely might be a bad MPEM.

I've only had this ski for a year and just began riding it in May. It has been temperamental especially after it sits for a few days. Gotta play with the key and then it runs. I thought I had it figured out last week when I jiggled the DESS Post and it started. But as mentioned I replaced the DESS Post and still nothing. Note: Once started this ski ran very well. Sunday I had to put the key in twice. It turned over but no start. I've had it do this... "turn over but no fire." Pull and reinsert the key and starts right up.

At present, when I hit the start button key out I get the gauges coming on and the red lights on the gauges lit. Put in the Key, holder relay clicks. Press the start button and the holder relay clicks again and nothing happens. Previously, when the holder relay clicked at key insertion the ski would start every time. it was always an issue to get the holder relay to click. Something funny about that, that I don't understand. I read comments concerning "the holder relay's job" and then listen and watch what happens as the ski responds to inputs and that doesn't jive with what people write.

Seems to me that the MPEM is not supplying power to the starter solenoid (yellow/red wire) I don't know which wire tells the MPEM to fire the starter so that part prevents me from verifying further. At present, I am going to send another Gray box with MPEM to a friend and have him program a couple of keys. I'd try that box but I don't know which key will work.

I am trying to separate this failure from just general issues. The last few times, the ski has gotten more difficult to get to turn over. Whatever is/was failing "has failed" which is good I just need to figure out what it is. As much as this annoys me I am learning a whole lot about the electrical system. I'd love to go to classes on this crap. I want to know exactly how it all works together. I have eliminated the rear box as the cause of any problem and I think I have eliminated the CDI by replacing it with another box and no change. DESS Post replaced... all I can see now is I need to move to the MPEM.

 

[etemplet]

Hmmmm.... so I'm thinkin..... Could a problem with the generating coil cause a "no start" on the ski? As in, "engine won't turn over" If I have a problem in the mag housing that might be the root cause here. Last year I took the housing cover off to repair the "no fire" due to the pick up coil being full of metal. I took care of that and thought this would not be a problem so soon. I'm just looking at the whole system.

The pictures are before I reassembled the flywheel cover. I didn't play around with it. LOL

 

[GGuillot]

Hmmmm.... so I'm thinkin..... Could a problem with the generating coil cause a "no start" on the ski? As in, "engine won't turn over" If I have a problem in the mag housing that might be the root cause here. Last year I took the housing cover off to repair the "no fire" due to the pick up coil being full of metal. I took care of that and thought this would not be a problem so soon. I'm just looking at the whole system.

The pictures are before I reassembled the flywheel cover. I didn't play around with it. LOLView attachment 37233View attachment 37235View attachment 37234

Like that prior to you owning? or did you paint the flywheel and mag pickup wheel? I'd remove the paint on the little pickup magnet or the entire wheel, there has to be a reason seadoo choose not to paint this area.

 

[etemplet]

The coating is Glyptol. Good stuff, made for the job.

 

[GGuillot]

The coating is Glyptol. Good stuff, made for the job.

But you applied it to the mageto magnetic trigger wheel, which triggers the little pickup sensor that signals the coil, and you're having starting/ignition issues. I'm not saying that's causing it, but did you have issues before you applied it? As unlikely as it may seem, and I think we've all been surprised at times, I'd rule it out.

 

[GGuillot]

Come to think of it, since I'm a 2 stroke lawnboy fan, still am, I used to go on a forum many years ago (they actually have one) where someone painted the flywheel and painted over the embedded magnetic trigger. They had weird issues later and someone caught it and said strip it off see what happens, I don't remember the outcome, but I remember a couple thought that was causing the problem.

 

[etemplet]

I polished the magnets after coating. everything that was suppose to be shiny.... was. Ski ran fine. This isn't the no start issue. Actually if I would not have applied the coating corrosion would have been a continuing issue on the ski. I didn't want to coat it but I had to and I am not currently concerned with it breaking down.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Look for the trigger signal voltage, I don't recall the value off hand but it's in one of the manuals.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I'm a 2 stroke lawnboy fan

I always wanted a 2-stroke lawn mower, still do and some day I'll get around to it, LOL..

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I am not getting power to the Yellow/Red wire that goes to the ignition coil. When I put 12 volts on it, the stater turns over. When I test the yellow/red wire for resistance to ground I get around 5.3 Ohms. I traced this down and found that on the solenoid I have 5.3 ohms resistance where the yellow/red wire connects. I am wondering of the solenoid is causing problems. It's either that or the MPEM. I've tried everything else... I think. LOL
Rectifier, CDI (replaced with spare, no change), Holder Relay (checked operation) Start/Stop switch is functioning. I have a spare MPEM but I'll have trouble identifying the key. LOL I'm actually just starting to get to the nitty gritty on this thing....

the starter will not turn over.

How old is this thing, is this really a DESS or is it just the simple old lanyard switch that has plagued so many?

If the starter solenoid doesn't pull in with 12V on one side of the solenoid coil then how many volts on the other side of the coil, 0.0V? If yes, and the solenoid coil is good then the solenoid plunger isn't moving (corroded?). Pry the crimps apart and clean it up, crimp it back together. Or replace?

Ignition coil no voltage - If the lanyard switch circuit isn't made then there'll be no ignition.

Forgive me, I'm sure I'm not comprehending, plus the old skis were wired a bit differently and I need to dig deep through my memory cause it's been a long while.

Glyptol is great stuff.

 

[etemplet]

The Azz end of the ski is good. I applied voltage to the yellow/red wire at the harness and the starter turned over. I was having key recognition issues but I sent the gray box off and got new keys programmed. From my experience with this ski, it seems it is all systems go from the key side and MPEM but the start circuit is not engaging. Hopefully swapping the gray box out will do the trick. Sure is nice to have spare parts.