95 HX -oil issues

[kingbrad89]

So, I picked up a 95 HX recently for my fiancé, and as it ran fine, I still pulled it all apart because I'm anal with stuff and wanted to make sure all was well. The previous owner had been running pre-mix for peace of mind, however I was wanting to convert back to oil injection. I hooked everything back up, and filled the reservoir with a gallon of nice new fresh oil. When I came back out the next day, that entire gallon of oil was in the bottom of the hull, and the whole crank case was full of oil. Although my new oil lines fit snug and were nice and secure with new hose clamps, is seems that it may have leaked from the connections at the engine itself. Maybe the new oil lines that I purchased need to be more pliable? Is there a specific type of material to purchase for the oil lines? Does anyone know the specific size lines to buy for the 720 engine? Also, why would it have filled the entire crank case, and will the engine be ok after having been filled with oil? I dumped most of the oil out of the engine via the intake, however I obviously can't get all of it. I expect to foul a few plugs until it clears itself out, but I am still worried. I've rebuilt many of these engines, but all have been premix converted. This is the first one that I am attempting to convert back to oil injection for ease of use and to save some money on oil costs. Thanks in advance for the help!!

 

[racerxxx]

Here is the reservoir to the pump line. It's 8mm or 5/16"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ski-Doo-415...Doo-/262015128407?hash=item3d01519357&vxp=mtr


The other line from the reservoir to the crankcase is 13mm or 1/2". OEM Part# 275000008 sold by the yard I think at the dealer. You can buy what ever fancy tygon you want, this stuff is like no other. Not sure what spec tygon tubing it is but I have never found anything close.

Did the PO have the rotary valve cavity looped? Did they run the oil reservoir? If so, just use the original lines that were on there.

Also, out of curiosity, did you pull the intake to make sure the drive gear is in there for the oil pump?

The crank seals have been know to leak oil into the crankcase, but when you pulled the lines off the crankcase did a lot of oil come out?

 

[kingbrad89]

The PO seemed to have literally just let the oil tank run out, and started running premix. At least that's the way it seems. There was oil in the lines to the crank case, but I can't say that it was sufficient as it wasn't "looped" per say. I'm fearing he fried the rotary valve seal the more I look into this. I did a thorough inspection of the oil pump, and yes the oil pump drive gear was still installed. I installed new 3/32 oil lines for the injection itself, and bled the air in the lines. I then cranked the engine over for a few seconds to make sure that the small oil injection lines filled with oil and they did just fine.

 

[kingbrad89]

How bad is the rotary valve seal to replace? I'm looking everywhere for a how-to on replacing that seal and can't seem to find anything

 

[racerxxx]

The job isn't too bad but ideally the cases should be split to do it. I read some guys do it assembled, yet the manual states to not to do it like that iirc. More than likely that's not the seal that's bad. There are seals on either side of the center crank gear that are know to leak. You could do a pressure test to accurately determined what has failed.

So, the po just switched over before you bought it and the tank was empty. Did you ride it at all before you converted back? I'm sure this was probably the cause of the sale.

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[kingbrad89]

He was selling off all his skis. I don't think he was aware. The ski has 150 and 148 compression. I did not take it out on the water (because of reasons like this) even though it ran great when i bought it. I figured I'd pull the engine and make sure there was no funky business before we get stranded on the water. I guess I'm kinda stuck then. I assume I won't be able to do crank seals on my own and would have to buy a new crank... In which case I might be better off buying a $750 new rebuilt engine.

 

[kingbrad89]

Well then... Pulled the flywheel cover and there's that.

 

[CReynoldsMIZ]

looks like the crank seal behind the flywheel is leaking like a siv. pull that flywheel off and inspect the damage. you can do that crank seal very easily I believe

 

[kingbrad89]

Yeah. What concerns me is wouldn't the inner crank seals and the rotary valve seal both also have to be bad for oil to get to the outer crank seals?

 

[1of500]

Why is the oil so black? Or is it just the pictures

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[kingbrad89]

I think it's because it's a mix of oils. The oil he had in it was green. The oil I put in was purple, quicksilver synthetic pwc oil. The quicksilver oil is very dark purple.

 

[kingbrad89]

So I guess my next question for everyone is what are the best options? I need this ski to be correct and reliable. Buy a new rebuilt crank and do the rotary valve seal? Or just buy a new rebuilt engine for $750? If I pull this engine apart, will I be able to see what seals are good or bad?

 

[1of500]

Like racer said download the manual and pressure test the engine

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[kingbrad89]

Is it safe to say that I may be able to drop a new crank in and be ok?

 

[1of500]

If you plan to spend the money on a crankshaft rebuild the entire engine.

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[racerxxx]

OK, so either do a pressure test or just bite the bullet and buy/build an engine. Did you remove the formed o-ring gasket from the oil pump cover? you're literally a few screws away from removing the rotary valve cover. You could mock up your oil reservoir and fill it and see if the oil seeps from the RV shaft seal or actually fills the crankcase by looking in the bottom end. It's sorta the lazy mans approach to a pressure test, you just have to waste more oil. If your crank seals are smoked you're into an entire rebuild or buy a reman engine.

He was selling off all his skis. I don't think he was aware. The ski has 150 and 148 compression. I did not take it out on the water (because of reasons like this) even though it ran great when i bought it. I figured I'd pull the engine and make sure there was no funky business before we get stranded on the water. I guess I'm kinda stuck then. I assume I won't be able to do crank seals on my own and would have to buy a new crank... In which case I might be better off buying a $750 new rebuilt engine.

LOL, if he owned more than one ski he probably knew what he was doing. He knew the seals were bad.........so we'll let the tank be empty and let the new owner fill it, and find the problem. Just trying to be real that's all. There's 2 HX's on P-Burgh Craigslist right now, one for $700 and another for $1,500. In reality the one for $1500 is probably a $1300 ski, the $700 could probably be had for the $500 mark. Just be aware that installing the new engine into the ski is not going to really increase the value, you're dealing with a small select crowd that would want an HX, they're not for everyone. The HX is a Love it or Hate it ski. As you can tell by my avatar, I'm one who loves them.

 

[kingbrad89]

Yeah. This ski is for my fiancé. She loves the HX this is our 3rd one. The rest of this ski isn't bad, and I think it would be worth the new engine. I'll probably just bite the bullet and buy a reman engine over the winter. It just sucks because I'm rarely unable to fix things on my own. I'm not used to dumping $800 to fix something. I suppose the other option is to have my crank rebuilt, and just buy a new rotary valve and the puller tool. Then I can do the top end too which is easy enough. But by the time I do all that, I might as well just spend the $800 and get a reman engine with a warranty.

I do have the rotary cover off currently. I just don't know how to pressure test

 

[racerxxx]

Block the out side of the RV nipple (the one on the starter side), the pump about 4 to 5 psi into the front RV nipple (carb side). Use a shut off ball valve between your supply and the nipple. Close the ball valve and see if the pressure holds. probably not. There is where you would have the entire engine assembled and you would block off the carbs where they mount to the manifold, block off the pulse nipple for the carbs, block off the top of the exhaust mani. Then if the air leaked into the engine you could then unthread one of the spark plugs and see which one hisses air. That tells you which seal on the inner part of the cranks is weezed. But we already know the mag side is weezed as well as the front outer crank seal. Gotta keep the girl happy, looks like you're parting with cash. You could also scour ebay for a new reman OEM crank for a 720, they do come up every now and then. You can score OEM first over pistons for 720's on ebay too, brand new. I find 787 pistons for my builds on ebay almost ant buy one get one free pricing which is close to aftermarket pricing. Then have your cylinders bored, new crank and you're in for the price of a reman but with all OEM parts. Even OEM gasket sets are on ebay cheap. You just have to watch for them and know what a good price is.

 

[kingbrad89]

Thanks so much for the info!

 

[kingbrad89]

Geez SMOKED. Springs are laying in the bottom of the case

 

[kingbrad89]

 

[racerxxx]

Well, that engine has already been rebuilt once in it's life time. In the first pic you can see the crank pins are welded. In the piston pic the original pistons do not have extra holes by the wrist pins. And those are not OEM rods. I'll go out on a limb and say the thing drank all the oil on this guy and he fried the inner crank seal. Not a biggie by any means but I would just do it all.


Look towards teh front left of the pic and you can see the welded pin if you look close enough

 

[kingbrad89]

Yeah, it looks like this case had a worse failure in its history. Is this case still ok? I need to figure out now if I should have this crank rebuilt and just drop the rebuilt crank in and do a new top end, buy a reman crank (and what reman company) and do a top end, or just put it back together and send it out as a core on a rebuilt engine (and what company to use to buy a reman engine). I just kinda feel that by the time I buy a top end kit ($166 for WSM on eBay), spend $275 on a crank rebuild, buy a new gasket set, and probably do a rotary valve too since that brass gear has some chips out of it and some bent over edges (if you can tell in the pic)... That's $600 + in parts to rebuild and no warranty to fall back on when it decides to self destruct. Which would be my luck.

The other option is to sell the ski as it sits and advertise that it needs an engine rebuild. Any ideas what this thing is worth the way it sits?

I just replaced the gray fuel lines with new lines. Spent like $100 in hoses and stainless clamps. Spent $40 on a gallon of oil that ended up being thrown away after I sucked it out of the hull. Probably another $100 on odds and ends like a new in line oil filter, oil lines, carb cleaner and tuff stuff, intake gasket set, exhaust gasket set... This is making me nauseous.

 

[Austrian Rotax]

Considering the amount of work it needs I wouldn't pay more than $200. If you list it I would say most you could get would be 400. I got a blown 95xp here in Canada which usually everything is more expensive here, for $150 including a trailer. Even getting it for that much of a steal I ended up spending around 1400-1500 for rebuilt motor and all the little odds and ends but now it's reliable and looks mint, mind you I think I must have spent at least $200 on cosmetics. These old skis are money pits if you want to fix them up right. But still so much cheaper than a new one! Your in deep with that project now your not going to come out ahead or anywhere near even continue it. If you go buy another hx you won't know what your getting again.

 

[mikidymac]

If it was mine I would rebuild it myself with all OEM parts.
Since you are concerned with a warranty I would slap it back together and order an engine from SBT and let the little lady enjoy the ski.